Hi, I've read about a dozen or so forum threads but still cant decide on which brand I should invest in.
I plan on buying an assortment of paints to finally start painting my brass engines and Ive heard good and bad things about each brand. It seems like more people use scalecoat but those who have tried trucolor swear by it. I also heard trucolor tends to be more inky/watery, would that be bad for painting brass? I plan to prime with tamiya white primer regardless.
Which one should I get?
Also, is there a better place to buy these paints without buying directly from their website?
Thanks,
Charles
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
For brass I suggest Scalecoat ONE.
I buy it direct from Minuteman Models.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Charles, I have a strong bias on this subject, and 50 years of experiance.
I would never paint a metal locomotive with acrylic paint.
So if the the Tamiya is acrylic, I think that is a really bad move as well.
Most of my modeling life, I have used first Floquil and now Scalecoat.
I wish I had found Scalecoat sooner.
I sometimes use acrylics for structures or scenery but never for rolling stock.
What is wrong with buying the paint right from Minuteman? Don't expect any big discounts no matter where you buy it.
The other advantage to Scalecoat is that it is gloss, better for decals and saves a step.
Then you can clear coat it with THEIR clear flat, which can be mixed with their clear gloss for a satin finish if you want the model to look freshly painted.
Solvent based paints are much more durable for things like brass locomotives, or even die cast or plastic ones.
Sheldon
I used Polly Scale for some early brass projects with good results but obviously had to look for an alternative.
I began using Scalecoat for all my rolling stock paint projects (except stainless steel-look which I use AlcladII on) and have never had a bad experience with either.
NYC_H-10 by Edmund, on Flickr
Some modelers look for substitute thinners but I buy the correct ones from Scalecoat (Minuteman). Why risk incompatibility. For all brass models I do bake for about an hour at 150° to 180°. If your brass is properly prepped the paint will adhere beautifully and provide an excellent, glossy surface for decal work.
I especially like Scalecoat for brass rolling stock:
PRR_X29 by Edmund, on Flickr
NKP_dinerA by Edmund, on Flickr
Erie_NKP_paint by Edmund, on Flickr
Erie_ten-hundred by Edmund, on Flickr
NKP_DL131 by Edmund, on Flickr
EL_DinerLounge by Edmund, on Flickr
I buy directly from Minuteman. Never had a problem.
Good Luck, Ed
I’ve been using Tru Color Paint for about 6 years now and you can put me in the Swear By Camp. I only use SP colors and they are great!!!!I was able to buy TCP from my LHS up until about six months ago when his supplier dropped TCP. I had to revert to eBay for the last couple of bottles.As good as if not better than Floquil.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Hi thanks for the replies, all the photos look great!
I think I'll stick with getting scalecoat ii then. I talked to my LHS and he said the trucolor stuff loves to dry up in the bottle, and the scalecoat stuff is better.
The gloss finish is a good point, saves me a step indeed.
Ended up dropping $65 for 4 colors and some thinner...they wanted $15 for shipping alone...dang that paint is pricy.
I’ve never had Tru Color Paint dry up in the bottle in over six years, for that matter I’ve never had any model paint dry up in the bottle. I still have a number of Floquil bottles that are getting up there in age and still usable.Early on all TCP products were gloss finish, they started making flat paint recently.Most of the time I don’t do small air brush jobs, I usually let it go until I have quite a few items to paint then get after it.Actually I’ve had pretty good luck with my painting for the last ten years or so. I think the main reason is a very good compressor and good air brushes. Keeping everything clean really helps too.Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.
Trainman440I think I'll stick with getting scalecoat ii then
I think you need clarification from the above posters re: if they are using Scalecoat 1 or Scalecoat 2 for brass items. I suspect that for brass they use Scalecote 1, but it would be wise to ask before you paint.
maxman Trainman440 I think I'll stick with getting scalecoat ii then I think you need clarification from the above posters re: if they are using Scalecoat 1 or Scalecoat 2 for brass items. I suspect that for brass they use Scalecote 1, but it would be wise to ask before you paint.
Trainman440 I think I'll stick with getting scalecoat ii then
I understand that, but unfortunantly I cannot afford to invest in so many un-mixable* paint brands. I need to paint both brass and plastic models, I currently already have model master and vallejo paints, I cant also invest in both scalecoat for brass and scalecoat ii for others. I understand scalecoat ii is worse for brass whereas scalecoat is practically designed for brass, but I can only get one, and in that case I'll just stick with scalecoat ii.
*in the sense that each paint brand is mutually exclusive and for every brand I'll have to buy seperate thinner, and mixers to adjust colors.
I find that if the model to be painted, regardless of its composition (brass, zinc casting, or plastic) is well-cleaned, then primed using a decent primer, the finish paint could be almost anything.For ages, I used either Floquil's or Canadian Tire Grey Primer on everything, and have used, over the years, Floquil, Tamiya, Polly S, Polly Scale, SMP Accupaint, and Scalecoat I for the finished colours.
I currently use either Tamiya Grey Primer (spray can) or Alclad II Grey Primer (airbrush). Both work very well, but I prefer the latter, simply because I'm more familiar with airbrushing rather than spray cans.
If I could chose any of those paints listed for the finishing work, it would definitely be Polly Scale. SMP Accupaint would be my second choice.
Trainman440I cant also invest in both scalecoat for brass and scalecoat ii for others. I understand scalecoat ii is worse for brass whereas scalecoat is practically designed for brass, but I can only get one, and in that case I'll just stick with scalecoat ii.
The formulae for Scalecoat I and Scalecoat II seem to be very similar, with only the proportions of the components varying. I've not had any problems using Scalecoat I on plastic
Wayne
For painting brass (or any other metal like Zamac) it is the surface prep and primer that determines the quality of the paint job. Once you have a good prime coat on, any reasonable paint, acrylic or lacquer, will give excellent results. Surface prep starts with degreasing (fingerprints are grease) and getting off any soldering flux. Flux is tough, use the strongest solvent you have on it. Then etch the metal in a mild acid like supermarket vineger. Rinse after etching. Then use auto primer from Krylon or Rustoleum. They are made for car mechanics who are in a hurry and may not have cleaned grease and crud off the old auto part as well as they might. The auto primers contain the best stick-to-metal chemistry known to man. Better than anything the likes of Testors can do. I don't have an airbrush and I have had excellent results with rattle cans. Auto primer comes in three colors, dark gray to go under dark colors, light gray to go under light colors and red to go under red. Once you have a good coat of primer on, any of the popular model paints will work just fine.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
The problem with TruColor drying in the bottle is that they are using plastic bottles, and the solvents some how vaporize out of it (like the old Accupaints). Best to decant the TC into a glass bottle for long term storage.
azrail The problem with TruColor drying in the bottle is that they are using plastic bottles, and the solvents some how vaporize out of it (like the old Accupaints). Best to decant the TC into a glass bottle for long term storage.
azrailThe problem with TruColor drying in the bottle is that they are using plastic bottles, and the solvents some how vaporize out of it
I never took a systematic interest in best ways to fix this, but improving the 'smoothness' of the rim and the material inside the top are obvious places to start. I have seen various kinds of soft metal or metalized-plastic seal gasket material advised. A good 'poly-seal' cap might also work.
You could put soft wax on the cap threads if they don't pull the cap down to a full seal, or run a thin line of some sealing material around the outside seam where the cap meets the bottle, 'in between uses'
I suspect you could also store a bottle inside a larger glass bottle, or a few bottles inside a Mason jar with a little solvent poured in the bottom before the lid is tightened down -- that ensures the 'gradient' is into the bottles and not out of the contents...
One solution might be Wheaton bottles, although you might have to look carefully to find a cheap enough source.
I use Scalecoat I paint for my brass, no primer, but I do blast it with 240 AO for some tooth. I also bake at 175 for 90 to 120 minutes.
I thin with Xylene that you can get from most big box hardware stores, it is the exact same product as Scalecoat thinner, but much cheaper.
I also store any paint upside down and in a dark area as it seems to aid in the longevity.
Kev
GP025 I thin with Xylene that you can get from most big box hardware stores, it is the exact same product as Scalecoat thinner, but much cheaper.
Maybe similar, but not quite exactly the same...if you're getting good results, though, then it must be close enough.
Scalecoat Paint apparently contains 17% VMP Naphtha and 41% Xylene.
What happens when you use Scalecoat I on plastic?
Ed
That depends on the plastic, and your technique.
Sometimes it works fine, other times it crazes up because it attacks the plastic.
I've never had issues using Scalecoat I (or Floquil, for that matter) on styrene, but that's because the application is by airbrush....using successive light coats. If you're brush-painting these solvent-based paints on plastic, there's a very good chance that you'll experience "crazing" of the plastic.
I used to airbrush Floquil onto plastic, after priming with Glaze. Didn't have problems.
It's looking a lot like I'm going to have to learn Scalecoat I.
7j43kI used to airbrush Floquil onto plastic, after priming with Glaze.
I recall using a product from Floquil called "Barrier" that was intended to protect styrene from crazing.
I've used Scalecoat I and II interchangably on styrene with no ill effects but on brass I stick with I. There was a time when I put a base coat of I on a brass model and shot II over it, also with no problems.
gmpullman 7j43k I used to airbrush Floquil onto plastic, after priming with Glaze. I recall using a product from Floquil called "Barrier" that was intended to protect styrene from crazing. I've used Scalecoat I and II interchangably on styrene with no ill effects but on brass I stick with I. There was a time when I put a base coat of I on a brass model and shot II over it, also with no problems. Good Luck, Ed
7j43k I used to airbrush Floquil onto plastic, after priming with Glaze.
Yeah, I kind of remember Barrier. But this stuff was Glaze. My recollection is that Floquil recommended its use as a primer (though perhaps I misunderstood). Anyway, I used Glaze as a primer on metal, and plastic and Delrin sideframes. It seemed to "stick" real well. And once it was on, the following coats couldn't attack the plastic unless you went nuts with your spraying (I try to avoid that).
Floquil also said to put some Glaze in your airbrush mix, maybe 5%?
But ya can't spray what ya can't buy, so here comes Scalecoat I.
There are a number of things that can be applied to various plastics to preclude crazing or swelling when solvents are subsequently applied. I seem to recall Vallejo primer contains one that works even in thinned coats. Perhaps Tamiya's does too.
Does someone know the 'active ingredient(s)' in Floquil Barrier?