I commented about my loco testing on the other two posts about small radius curves and logging locos. I expanded my test sessions and couldn't believe how many of my HO locos do not derail running through a 15" radius curve, even at full speed.
The S curve test track consists of 3 feet Atlas straight track to build up speed, then one 18" radius Atlas curved snap track, then a reversed 15" Atlas curved snap track, then 2 feet of straight.
Here's a list of all the locos that wouldn't derail on this setup after several passes, even at full throttle:
Bachmann Spectrum 3 truck Shay
Bachmann Spectrum Baldwin 10 wheeler 4-6-0
Bachmann Spectrum Decapod 2-10-0
Proto 2000 SW8 (no surprise)
Proto 2000 FA1-FB1, lashed up
Atlas Classic RS-3
Proto 2000 E8/9 six axle (!)
Athearn Genesis Mikado 2-8-2
Rivarossi Berkshire 2-8-4
IHC Santa Fe 2-10-2
The Berk and Santa Fe slow down a bit running through the 15R and of course they look silly but they would not derail!
This test might prove useful to owners of larger locos where a small section of the layout has to be 15R to fit.
50' cars and passenger cars look laughable on a 15" curve but they do make it through.
Hope you all find this useful and ENJOY YOUR FOURTH!
Rob
On this test, was anything coupled to the locomotives? And if so, what?
Sometimes the loco by itself is indeed fine, but everything coupled to it is not...
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
I believe a 2 or 3 sections of 15 inch radius track would be more telling.
The E units don't really surprise me much, because each truck obviously had no limitations - not hitting any underframe components. But I doubt full size passenger cars would do as well.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
ricktrains4824 On this test, was anything coupled to the locomotives? And if so, what? Sometimes the loco by itself is indeed fine, but everything coupled to it is not...
No Rick, just the locos, with tender if steam, I didn't think 40' freight cars would pose a problem. I'll try it. -Rob
mobilman44 I believe a 2 or 3 sections of 15 inch radius track would be more telling. The E units don't really surprise me much, because each truck obviously had no limitations - not hitting any underframe components. But I doubt full size passenger cars would do as well.
I only own one 15R track section. I created the S for a more tortuous test. Also my Athearn BB passenger cars roll through fine, they have the separate trucks too like the E8s. Those 10 driver locos really surprised me, despite them binding, but like I said they made it through.
I've got an SD9 that can't make 18 inch curves all by itself. I had to redo some track to get Rivarossi short coaches over them.
I had a bit of tighter radius turn, but that jet led to an engine house for trolleys.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Rick, I coupled three 40 foot freight cars to my longest steam loco and ran the train through the test, slow then fast. All the cars behaved. -Rob
Good to know, might be handy in unseen areas. On my old layout all unseen was 18" but tried to use larger elsewhere.
I’ve operated the following on a 15” oval:
GG1 doubleheader
2-8-0
Bachmann ES44AC and SD70ACe
E60
Athearn RTR SD50 and Dash 9
Genesis Challenger (really slow)
F7’s
Sharknoses
GP38-2/GP40
And am SD40-2 to finish it off.
Just a thought, but if I only had room for 15' radius curves, I would sell off my HO scale stuff and move into N scale where everything would be less problematic.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Just a thought, but if I only had room for 15' radius curves, I would sell off my HO scale stuff and move into N scale where everything would be less problematic. Rich
Rich,The problem with your theory there are those that believes N is to small or it for running long trains through scenery and you can't switch cars etc.
You should start ignoring the so called experts and see how versatile this hobby really is.. How about a 0-6-0T or 2-6-0 and 36 or 40 foot cars? A BB SW7 and 40' cars will work. Any logging type locomotive will work with 36 or 40 foot cars.. A 44,45 or 70 Tonner will work with 40' cars. How about a SW1 and 40' cars? There are several more small engines and cars on the list that would work.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
if you only had room for 15" curves (like John Allen's original layout) wouldn't it make sense to have smaller locomotives and trains? Is an IHC Santa Fe 2-10-2 really going to look right on a small layout?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
BRAKIE richhotrain Just a thought, but if I only had room for 15' radius curves, I would sell off my HO scale stuff and move into N scale where everything would be less problematic. Rich Rich,The problem with your theory there are those that believes N is to small or it for running long trains through scenery and you can't switch cars etc. You should start ignoring the so called experts and see how versatile this hobby really is.. How about a 0-6-0T or 2-6-0 and 36 or 40 foot cars? A BB SW7 and 40' cars will work. Any logging type locomotive will work with 36 or 40 foot cars.. A 44,45 or 70 Tonner will work with 40' cars. How about a SW1 and 40' cars? There are several more small engines and cars on the list that would work.
I am quite sure that I could set up a small HO scale layout with 12" radius curves. But what would I run on it? And, what would it look like?
At some point, you just have to be realistic and accept the laws of physics. If you want to run a model railroad and have is look good and be problem free, but you just don't have the space to at least install 18" radius curves, then just maybe it is time to consider N scale. You say it is too small, but the truth of the matter is that N scale is not that small. You can see it, you can run it, you can be happy with it. I speak from experience.
I currently run HO scale because I have the space to do so. I would love to return to my days of yesteryear and build an S scale layout, but I would have to make too many compromises to please me. So, I stick with HO scale because I have the space.
So, it's not a theory, it is a reality. OK, the OP claims he can run even mid-size HO scale steamers on 15" radius curves at full speed. But I am skeptical about that claim, especially the one about a 2-10-2. If he can do it, that is great. But are we trying to build a model railroad that suits our needs, or are we conducting a test to see what minimal radius curves will work?
richhotrainI am quite sure that I could set up a small HO scale layout with 12" radius curves. But what would I run on it? And, what would it look like?
Rich,See? You're still looking in the box...Some city buildings and some trolley cars and Bingo! You can use those 12'" curves.
-------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Really? How about those engines and cars I mention that works on 15" curves? I know abot N Scale seeing I spent the majority of my hobby in N not HO and that dates back to '68.
Rich,All I am saying with the proper HO equipment those 15" curves will work problem free contrary to what t so called experts say in articles and their books..
BRAKIE Rich,All I am saying with the proper HO equipment those 15" curves will work problem free contrary to what t so called experts say in articles and their books..
If you can only manage 15" radius in the available space but you want to model modern equipment, say the 1950s or later, then consider N scale.
richhotrain BRAKIE Rich,All I am saying with the proper HO equipment those 15" curves will work problem free contrary to what t so called experts say in articles and their books.. Larry, all I am saying is that not everyone wants to run a trolley or 0-4-0 switcher. If you can only manage 15" radius in the available space but you want to model modern equipment, say the 1950s or later, then consider N scale. Rich
Larry, all I am saying is that not everyone wants to run a trolley or 0-4-0 switcher.
Rich,Reread what I mention.. A Athearn BB SW7 and 40' cars wil go around 15" curves. As for your 50 era a aging 2-6-0 on a branch line. In modern times even a short line will require 22" or better curves but,we are discussing equipment that can use 15" curves.
N Scale has far more possibilities then just running modern trains through screnery and around sweeping curves. A lot of N Scalers still use 9 3/4" curves or 11" curves.
BTW. I still read N Scale Railroading and N Scale magazines.
BRAKIE N Scale has far more possibilities then just running modern trains through screnery and around sweeping curves. A lot of N Scalers still use 9 3/4" curves or 11" curves.
Good advice, Rich, but ah, the challenge of making the most of an HO layout in a small space is what intrigues me. I enjoy tackling the near-impossible just to see if it will work. -Rob (OP)
gregc if you only had room for 15" curves (like John Allen's original layout) wouldn't it make sense to have smaller locomotives and trains? Is an IHC Santa Fe 2-10-2 really going to look right on a small layout?
I agree Greg, the Santa Fe looked ridiculous but I included longer steam in my test just to see if it would work. I was challenging manufacturer's specs of 18" radius minimum to see if there were exceptions and most of the locos on my list ran through a 15 no problem and didn't look so bad. The drivers on the longer steam like the Santa Fe and Berk binded up. The Mikado, Decapod and 10 Wheeler rolled smoothly through. -Rob
Why does it matter the loco handling certain curves when the car(s) behind it that cause issues?
Rob, thanks for your research. I'm building a small demo Christmas layout that only has room for 15" curves. I was considering a trolley but will experiment with a small steam loco and two short passenger cars.
My portable layout has 15" Atlas "Snap" track curves, I have run most any 4 axle diesel around it including 3 Overland Brass diesels, A GP35, GE Dash 8-40B and an Alco C430. I have run PFM brass Prairie King 2-6-2 and Ma & Pa 2-8-0's, along with my Overland ex C&O G9 2-8-0 around it with no issues. And brass is known to be more intollerant of tight curves, some is but not all of it. Athearn 6 axles do not like it, they like 22 and bigger. So stick with smaller diesels and steam and you will be fine with 15" curves. I had several tell me to go N scale as this was my only layout for quite awhile, even at home. But I have enough trouble seeing HO scale, N is to small for me. Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome