Broadway Limited locos that derail constantly on turnouts HELP NEEED

[Anonymous]

[:(] Well first it was my M1A which I sent back to BLI and today I just recieved a new GG1and it has the same problem. Here goes. If the Loco is coming into a turnout that the points are not in the same direction the front pilot wheels derail. This happened with a brand new gg1 and the m1A, now back from repair. I have # 4 atlas code 100 turnouts and they are NOT the tightest that atlas makes.(the tightest being the snap switches at 18"RADIUS) both locos claim they will run on 18" radius turns so my turnouts should be just fine since they are not the tightest. Both the front pilots on both engines can not pu***he turnout points without derailing. They seem to not have enough down pressure to pu***he turnout points. I know I could add weight to the M1A pilot wheels, but on the gg1 there is no place to add weight, and on the gg1 even the back pilot wheels derail after the front pilot wheels have past.Yet my boxcars do just fine and so does my ole (rp25 )rivarossi challenger and my Mantua pacifics( late model) that are also rp 25. Anyone who can offer help or having this problem please respond..Thanks and HAPPY NEW YEAR

[twhite]

In Training---I take it from your post that your Atlas switches are either #4's or #6. Check your turnout points. The BLI's are very sensitive to turnout points that aren't flush with the outside rail. With Atlas turnouts, which I've had, I've had to file down the turnout points flush with the outside rails. There's a chance that your points are picking up the treads on the BLI wheels and causing the derailments. Actually, most commercial turnouts need the points filed (I've even had a few Sinoharas that needed it). Try that and see if it works. You shouldn't be having that kind of problem with the BLI leading or trailing trucks. Hope this helps.
Tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

In Training---I take it from your post that your Atlas switches are either #4's or #6. Check your turnout points. The BLI's are very sensitive to turnout points that aren't flush with the outside rail. With Atlas turnouts, which I've had, I've had to file down the turnout points flush with the outside rails. There's a chance that your points are picking up the treads on the BLI wheels and causing the derailments. Actually, most commercial turnouts need the points filed (I've even had a few Sinoharas that needed it). Try that and see if it works. You shouldn't be having that kind of problem with the BLI leading or trailing trucks. Hope this helps.
Tom

[#ditto] I would also check your track alignment comming into the turnout,and make sure it is level,and straight.The fact that your older rivarossi,and mantua engines do not derail does not completely rule out the track. I have found that all bli steam engines seem to be a little out of balance as far as weight where front pilot tracking compared to rear wheel traction is concerned.{except for the class A} I had a simaliar problem with my hudsons I put a small shim under the trailing truck forcing the weight forward to keep the front pilot in contact with the rails.This helped greatly with it's tracking thru turns and turouts.I also found that my track work was not perfect,and in a couple of places the rails were not level due to small pieces of ballast material that had gotten under the cork roadbed.,and just poor track laying on my part.Bli seems to be a little more unforgiving than alot of other engines when it comes to track work.If all else fails call bli and ask to speak to Jimmy Hicks he has helped me with problems in the past .Welcome to the forum and good luck ,keep us posted on the progress and hopefully ,the sucsessfull outcome.Terry.

[Virginian]

I agree with railguyho, BLI engines require real good trackwork. My first Class A found some problems I didn't know I had; everything else tolerated it, that Class A didn't. Once I fixed the track though, it runs like a watch. One thing you do need to watch, especially on a tight radius, is that the wiring isn't putting sideways pressure on the locomotive. On some I split the number of wires on each side of the drawbar and "pre-bent" the wires. On the Class A I have found the best thing is to push all the slack into the tender and run the wires straight across. Your results may vary.

[rrinker]

When you say 'pu***he points' it sounds like you are trying to run the locomotives into a turnout that is thrown the WRONG WAY, ie the points are set for straight ahead and you are coming in off the diverging route. You might get away with this with a diesel or a switch engine with no lead truck, and if you spring downt he lead truck enough on the BLI locos they might even work - but at the expense of removing so much weight fromt he driving wheels that they wouldn't be able to pull anything!
I have to ask, why are you trying to 'run the switch' that is set the wrong way? That's not proper operation. I would EXPECT locomotives to derail when you do things like this - the real ones certainly do!
The only exception to this is a 'spring switch' which is used occasionally where trains in one direction always take the same route, so that returning trains can proceed without stopping to have a crew member operate the switch. If you are trying to duplicate this, use a lighter spring.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Thankyou all for your replies What rrinker states is exactly what I am doing Maybe my layout is not sophisticated enough to be running these BLI Locos. I don't know. Like I said the Rivarossi challenger ( which is the last latest curent model design) does just fine "Pushing the points on the turnouts. I was really tring to upgrade a little with sound with the BLI locos, but it doesn't look like that is going to work. It seems that the best I can do it stay with the what I have and not look to update because my layout doesn't meet current specs. I enjoy and love my trains and show them off whenever I have the chance,, but I run it for fun not emulate a real railroad. The BLI locos derail as they pu***he turn out points and that happens long before the points meet the ajacent rail. So any more suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again to all who responded
Jon

[twhite]

Okay, Jon--NOW I get it! You're pushing the points coming into a turnout set against your line of traffic. All the time I thought your BLI's were just derailing AT the points going with the turnout. DON'T DO DAT, BUDDY! Make sure your turnout is set WITH the traffic flow, even if your old Rivarossi's can pu***he points. No matter what they say about RP-25 flanges, the older Rivarossi's have a deeper, sharper flange that will catch the point and reset it. The BLI's have a true RP-25 flange that of course, will just ride up and over. Take the time and throw the turnout and you'll be a happy camper with your BLI's. Believe me.
Have fun, keep us posted, okay?
Tom

[Anonymous]

Not to mention that the prototype will derail against a wrong way switch. Heck... having those engines stomp over those points dont seem to help the switch either.

That BLI will reward you with smooth performance equal to it's reputation.

[rexhea]

In Training
Why do you try to "pu***he points" of the turnout with your motive power? Wouldn't you want to just control the turnout by a ground throw or remote control?

I've had two hit the concrete because I ran through an open turnout. Believe me, I watch carefully now.

[Anonymous]

WOW,like was said earlier don't do that,just remember you don't need a complex layout just some good track work,The forces that affect the prototype engine as it goes about its daily job affect the model in many ways also just in minature.If your turnout would happen to be at the beginning or end of a reverse loop you could find yourself with some polarity problems,not really a sound way to operate any engine let alone ones that normally cost 200.00+Since you are using atlas there remote switches can be wired very easy and the switch controllers can be grouped togeather and mounted so you only need one set of power leads from the transformer to power all of them togeather.I think you will find that if you operate your turnouts properly that you will also enjoy your BLI's and spend alot less time and shipping costs waiting for them to be returned from the factory.Again good luck,the advise given here is free as allways and is only as good as you decide it may be.Terry.

[Anonymous]

Thankyou all. I have been working my fanny off reworking track and no longer "{pushing the switch points)" The locos run very well,Still wi***he BLI locos weren't as picky with the track, but I am replacing and repairing what ever the loco finds on my 12 X 10 layout.... Thanks again to all of you for your good advice.
Jon

[Don Gibson]

99/01 IT ISNT THE ENGINE, Its the switch.
It didn't derail getting to it. did it.?

THERE IS NO ENGINE that some switch wont like.

Different manufacturers use different tolerances within a recommended standard.

Check your turout first OR REPLACE..

[Don Gibson]

"If the Loco is coming into a turnout that the points are not in the same direction the front pilot wheels derail" - In Training

"Both the front pilots on both engines can not pu***he turnout points without derailing. They seem to not have enough down pressure to pu***he turnout points"

ARE YOU SAYING the switch is aligned against the engine?

[pastorbob]

my layout has been down and running for 15 years. I use large radius Peco and Shinohara only. My fleet of 175 plus diesels run over it in heavy operating sessions with no problems, my freight cars, including auto racks, COFC. etc, run over it with n o problems. I purchased two BLI ATSF 4-8-4 just because they were steam and Santa Fe. both derail often on Peco switches going through the straight side.

My points are filed, alignment is checked anytime there is a problem, nothing found
In the meantime, the railroad runs fine with diesel, so after some soul searching, I canceled the order I had for the Santa Fe 2-10-2 coming, and will buy no more BLI steam (or diesel since I don't like their looks as well).

As a PS, the two northerns have a nasty habit of requiring the decoder to be reprogrammed when they derail. They have a total memory lapse.

Bob

[retsignalmtr]

my club has a modular layout that we take to shows and the joiner rails that span the module ends are as level as can be attained. all the club members locos and cars make it over these sections except the time someone brought a bli gg1 to run. it derailed the lead and trailing trucks at most of the joints. we thought that the lead and trailing trucks did not have enough up and down and sideways motion to compensate for slightly uneven trackage. it was just the gg1 that derailed. some bli steamers make it over those joints ok.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pastorbob

my layout has been down and running for 15 years. I use large radius Peco and Shinohara only. My fleet of 175 plus diesels run over it in heavy operating sessions with no problems, my freight cars, including auto racks, COFC. etc, run over it with n o problems. I purchased two BLI ATSF 4-8-4 just because they were steam and Santa Fe. both derail often on Peco switches going through the straight side.

My points are filed, alignment is checked anytime there is a problem, nothing found
In the meantime, the railroad runs fine with diesel, so after some soul searching, I canceled the order I had for the Santa Fe 2-10-2 coming, and will buy no more BLI steam (or diesel since I don't like their looks as well).

As a PS, the two northerns have a nasty habit of requiring the decoder to be reprogrammed when they derail. They have a total memory lapse.

Bob

If you have not sent them back allready I heard of a problem with the third set of drivers the bearing not seating properly causing binding problems.I don't know if this issue might be causing your 4-8-4 to derail,maybe the driver is wobbling thru the switch allowing it to catch the point?I have several BLIs my only problem child so far has been the Hudsons,I think that BLI produces some great engines but I do not think they are without there share of problems.I have never had the reprograming problem with any of my BLIs could it be possible that the engine going into the switch is losing power ,bad pickups on engine or decoder is causing a surge to the motor.I think I would send them back.Terry