Help getting old Bachmann running

[Penn Central]

Hi,

 

I'm restoring this old loco from my childhood. Was rarely used b/c it rarely worked :-)  see link below  

Anyway, took it all apart, cleaned armature, fixed wiring oiled and lubed. Re-assembled and got it working or so it seemed. The motor seems to spin the wheels well when i apply power to the wheels directly from my power pack.

However when I place it on the track it seems like the wheels mostly spin and the train doesnt move much, like the train can't get traction. The one side of wheels has the rubber bands on them. I even put another set on the other side. Still happens.

I'm a complete newbie here so any help is appreciated!

 

[BigDaddy]

Penn Central

see link below

can't see it. 

[Penn Central]

Oops. Sorry.  This is a picture I took from the web, not my actual

 

 

[gmpullman]

Hi,

This is beginning to sound like a split gear problem. Life-Like has center-ring when it comes to split axle gears but Bachmann runs a close second.

With the engine in your hand can you place your thumb on the wheel tread and rotate the wheel? This would indicate that the gear/axle is split allowing the axle to spin in the gear.

Let us know what you find.

Good Luck, Ed

[Penn Central]

Thanks. So I tried to do what you said and I was unable to turn the wheels by hand. Also FWIW when I repaired this I had it completely disassembled down to the commutator and all of the little plastic gears. I dont have an specs so I figured it out by myself. Took me some time but I think I got all of the gears back in. There's one big black plastic gear driven by the armitature shaft. that one drives three small white gears (which drive two of the 3 wheel axles) and another large black gear (which drives the 3rd wheel axle). Not sure if that even makes sense. And when I hold the engine upside down I can see all of the gears turning (except the 3rd axle mentioned, doesnt seem to catch). But its all spinning quite fast. I'll try to take a video.

[gmpullman]

Penn Central

Took me some time but I think I got all of the gears back in.

 

Here's an exploded view that shows the gears in the trucks.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/65502.pdf

 

Hope that helps, Ed

[richg1998]

Right now it sounds like yours is the older model that drives the wheels on one end only. If it is, check the other truck for free wheeling. If both ends are driven, something is dragging. I have never seen one up close. Is it the type of motor in the diagram?

I just looked at the Bachmann site and the present model drives three wheels on each end.

Rich

[Penn Central]

Ok so looks like I defintiely dont have the one in that diagram. Mine must be older - think I received it as a gift in the late 80s maybe.  

There is defintiely only one set of wheels that is driven by the motor. the other set is pure dummy and for electrical pickup. 

I'm wondering if I applied too much Labelle's lubrication oil to the motor and shaft and it dripped onto gears making them slip? I did lubricate the gears with Labelle's grease. 

I took some closeups of the gears:

The red arrow is pointing to the larger black gear, hard to see, that's powered directly by the motor. This gear turns the others....

 

[gmpullman]

Well...

That probably has the flat "pancake" motor in in, too. I had an old Bachmann U.P. DD40 with that motor. Never did get it to run, let alone, smoothly.

IF I were in your shoes, I'd take a look at putting some better guts under the hood.

One option is to find a deal on another engine and place your shell, with the sentimental value, on the better guts.

Here's an ebay seller with a similar engine (but I can't guarantee it has the newer drive**, double check first) for a fairly reasonable price.

** It looks like it is identical to the one you have, so perhaps not a good choice for "upgrade". 

https://tinyurl.com/ycu53oej

There's a bunch of others out there, too. The newer DCC ready with all 6 axles driven will give you much better performance.

I've also heard that the blue-box Athearn U-25-C chassis would fit under there, too, but I don't know how much modifications would be needed for that.

 

 Just an option, mind you...

Good Luck, Ed

 

[Darth Santa Fe]

Looks like it's assembled correctly.  Are the wheel in the other truck spinning freely?  Is most of the weight closer to the drive truck?

[Penn Central]

i like that idea. How do I go about finding ones that would work with my shell? are locos typically sold with measurements? If not what do I ask? Would gladly shell out some good money for a solid engine that i could pop this shell over. 

[Penn Central]

Looks like it's assembled correctly.  Are the wheel in the other truck spinning freely?  Is most of the weight closer to the drive truck?

 

@Darth - sorry must've posted at the same time. So yes definitely end orhers wheels are spinning freely  I'll have to look at the weight  I think it's spread pretty evenly across the middle  will check. 

[Trainman440]

Wait, im confused. So on the track, the wheels on the powered truck is not spinning?

Or are they spinning, but the engine isn't moving?

 

PS you can get a parts loco on Ebay for...well, idk, if you wait for new listings, maybe you could get one for under $30! https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=bachmann%20e60&_sacat=0&_udhi=70&rt=nc

 

[gmpullman]

Penn Central

i like that idea. How do I go about finding ones that would work with my shell?

I'm sure any of the older E60CP shells will fit on to the newer chassis.

There are still brand new Bachmann E60s available:

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/bachmann-ho-65506-e60cp-amtrak-phase-ii-976-dcc-equipped/

So you would have to shell out $70 plus shipping.

Sometimes these can be found at train shows or older well-stocked hobby shops.

Sometimes, too, a place like Trainworld will have a closeout sale and you can save some money that way.

Just be sure it is the more recent six-axle drive model as there are still a bunch of the same kind of pancake motor ones out there, too. Go to the Bachmann site and get the stock numbers for the more recent (DCC Ready) releases.

This is NOT the kind of motor you want. (They can run OK after some fussing, but when there are better drives available, why bother?)

Good Luck, Ed

[Penn Central]

Trainman440

Wait, im confused. So on the track, the wheels on the powered truck is not spinning?

Or are they spinning, but the engine isn't moving?

 

PS you can get a parts loco on Ebay for...well, idk, if you wait for new listings, maybe you could get one for under $30! https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=bachmann%20e60&_sacat=0&_udhi=70&rt=nc

 

 

Yea sorry. The wheels on the powered truck are defintiely spinning. And the train does move. But it seems like its skidding and has no traction. I'll take a video of it later.

Thanks for the link I'll check it out.

PS - you're in Berwyn? I'm over in Phoenixville :-)

 

gmpullman

  

I'm sure any of the older E60CP shells will fit on to the newer chassis.

There are still brand new Bachmann E60s available:

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/bachmann-ho-65506-e60cp-amtrak-phase-ii-976-dcc-equipped/

So you would have to shell out $70 plus shipping.

Sometimes these can be found at train shows or older well-stocked hobby shops.

Sometimes, too, a place like Trainworld will have a closeout sale and you can save some money that way.

Just be sure it is the more recent six-axle drive model as there are still a bunch of the same kind of pancake motor ones out there, too. Go to the Bachmann site and get the stock numbers for the more recent (DCC Ready) releases.

This is NOT the kind of motor you want. (They can run OK after some fussing, but when there are better drives available, why bother?)

Good Luck, Ed

 

 

Thanks Ed. That IS the motor I have BTW. LOL.  So you have it right.

Rather than buy the same loco can I buy a used, but solid engine and swap out the shells? If so how would I know it fit?

 

Maybe to your point the only way is to wait for the next train show to come around. or the hobby shop

[Trainman440]

Ohh!!!

That's simple, either add some weights to the engine shell/insides, or add/replace the traction tires.

 

Oh and that's assuming the gears are properly installed, and the wheels are spinning all in one direction. 

 

PS hey! maybe you could visit someday! :D

Charles

[Penn Central]

Trainman440

Ohh!!!

That's simple, either add some weights to the engine shell/insides, or add/replace the traction tires.

 

Oh and that's assuming the gears are properly installed, and the wheels are spinning all in one direction. 

 

PS hey! maybe you could visit someday! :D

Charles

 

 

OK will add more weights and see if that does the trick!

[richg1998]

I figured the loco was a little old but not that old.

I got a Bachmann 0-6-0 with a motor like this running ok and had to add weight but eventually gave it away. It even ran on a DZ125 decoder. Pickups were the issue.

Rich

[Billwiz]

Totally off topic - you live in Phoenixville?  I grew up there (and live in Morgantown, a half hour away).  Have you checked out the Schuylkill Valley Model Railroad Club?

 

[Trainman440]

good club, Ive been to a few of those open houses, though its pretty crammed. 

Charles

[OldEngineman]

Penn Central wrote: "However when I place it on the track it seems like the wheels mostly spin and the train doesnt move much, like the train can't get traction"

Heh, sounds like "prototypical action" to me! The E-60's could be slippery as all get-out if you weren't careful. More power than the wheelslip system could handle.

The big ones could have used some traction tires!

And they also had a switch that could cut out an entire truck if it was having problems. So, with one truck cut out, the Bachmann version was again mimicing real life!  

I ran that 951 a few times, myself...

[Penn Central]

OldEngineman

Penn Central wrote: "However when I place it on the track it seems like the wheels mostly spin and the train doesnt move much, like the train can't get traction"

Heh, sounds like "prototypical action" to me! The E-60's could be slippery as all get-out if you weren't careful. More power than the wheelslip system could handle.

The big ones could have used some traction tires!

And they also had a switch that could cut out an entire truck if it was having problems. So, with one truck cut out, the Bachmann version was again mimicing real life!  

I ran that 951 a few times, myself...

 

 

Yep I think you may be right. I added weights and it didnt help. But...one problem was I was running it on an oval too tight for this long engine.

So I made a simple straight test track and things were better. But in the end i think its just typical for this guy. Maybe I can clean the motor more, align the gears better.

Here's some videos...

First testing on bench. Seems like its running pretty well?

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=_n-1yQ7s0pw

 

Then when I put it on the track, this is what I get. Its running with the throttle way up. And now that I watch it on the video it looks good. But really there's tons of skipping and dont think I could pull much on full throttle

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z3KoKniJRRFakkh76

 

Oh, also, thats cool about phoenixville. Of course I know about SVMRRC. I go to their open houses every year, some times more than once. For at least 11-12 years now. 

 

[Trainman440]

Youtube link dosent work, cause your in the editor site, you have to hit "share" on youtube and paste that link here, not your editor link.