ATLANTIC CENTRALI can't say I enjoyed the weather. And nothing about any desert sounds like any place I want to be either. As for winter in the Mid Atlantic, come on now, 6 months?
Sort of a hijack. When I lived in Pennsylvania I spent 4.5 months indoors per year. Here in Arizona where I am, (not in Pheonix) we get hot weather 2 months a year, but everywhere is air conditioned. Yard work--what little there is is done 6-8 am. And evenings are pleasant outside. I'm at 3300 ft elevation and we get 18 inches of rain per year. It is pretty much green all year. When people back in PA ask what it's like living here, I tell them. The first winter I spent here, there were 4 days I couldn't sit on my porch. Second year 3, Third, 0. This year so far, 0.
What I'm saying is this isn't a Gary Cooper western or Wile E. Coyote cartoon. But you can get that if you go south enough--like Phoenix.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
SpaceMouse ATLANTIC CENTRAL I can't say I enjoyed the weather. And nothing about any desert sounds like any place I want to be either. As for winter in the Mid Atlantic, come on now, 6 months? Sort of a hijack. When I lived in Pennsylvania I spent 4.5 months indoors per year. Here in Arizona where I am, (not in Pheonix) we get hot weather 2 months a year, but everywhere is air conditioned. Yard work--what little there is is done 6-8 am. And evenings are pleasant outside. I'm at 3300 ft elevation and we get 18 inches of rain per year. It is pretty much green all year. When people back in PA ask what it's like living here, I tell them. The first winter I spent here, there were 4 days I couldn't sit on my porch. Second year 3, Third, 0. This year so far, 0. What I'm saying is this isn't a Gary Cooper western or Wile E. Coyote cartoon. But you can get that if you go south enough--like Phoenix.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I can't say I enjoyed the weather. And nothing about any desert sounds like any place I want to be either. As for winter in the Mid Atlantic, come on now, 6 months?
Chip,
I realize the west is a big place that offers a variety of "micro climates" and is not all just snowy mountains or hot deserts.
It all depends a lot on lifestyle, needs, wants, interests, etc.
But, as for "beauty", it is truely in the eye (or mind) of the beholder. For me, the rugged, sometimes barren, often sparsely vegetated, "brown/tan" terrain of the west is not "automaticly" somehow more beautiful than the lush green, water plentiful, everything grows here, east........I've see a reasonable share of both.
The Mid Atlantic has this wonder feature where the piedmont plateau actually meets the Chesapeake Bay, placing soft rolling hills of green right next to sandy beaches and all sorts of water activities.
Maryland has been called "America in Minature", from ocean to mountains in 100 miles........
Disclaimer - I'm not the outdoors type. Sure I like sitting on the porch, or by the pool, or a nice walk on a mild day. But I'm not into outdoors sports or recreation too much anymore.
At one time I joked my favorite outdoor activity was to take a ride in the convertible with the top down - I sold the convertible.......but the FORD FLEX w/Eccoboost does have the multipanel vista roof.......
Years ago I did some snow sking, and a little hiking, I grew up swimming in the tributaries of the Chesapeake, boating, etc, but not so much any more. I'm 60 and while in good health, my wife has some health issues that limit those things for her.
I'm a mechanical nerd, I build stuff. My favorite place to be is my garage or the train room.
I build houses, cars, model trains, garden tractors, stereo speakers, furniture, electronics (lots of it old school), etc.
I love a rainy day, especially if I can take the day off and build more stuff in my shop, or model train workshop.
But a spring time or fall drive down the Skyline Drive Scenic Highway is still beautiful to me.......
Sheldon
Where I live within two hours you can go from ocean to mountain or surf to snow.
rrebell Where I live within two hours you can go from ocean to mountain or surf to snow.
Yes I know, but the cost of living and the politics are bad enough here........
Nothing against Colorado but,of late I prefer some where along the beautiful shores of Lake Erie or the foot hills of the Appalachians found in South-Eastern and Southern Ohio.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE Nothing against Colorado but,of late I pefer some where along Lake Erie or either the foot hills of the Appalachians found in South-Eastern and Southern Ohio.
Nothing against Colorado but,of late I pefer some where along Lake Erie or either the foot hills of the Appalachians found in South-Eastern and Southern Ohio.
I could go for those areas as well.
If could get the wife to go for it, I would already be in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, but she says it too far from good medical care.
Hmmmm.
.
From my house in Two-Three Hours I can be in the Atlantic Ocean, Gulf Of Mexico, Lake Okeechobee, Intercoastal Waterway, or the new Volcano Bay waterpark at Universal Studios, Orlando. I can also be at the Magic Kingdom, Busch Gardens, or Bern's Steakhouse.
If you have never been to Bern's in Tampa, make sure you go on your next trip.
Do I win?
Anyway... can we get back to the topic of Colorado and why modeler railroaders love it so much.
Are there reallty as many bridges in Colorado as modelers portray? It seems every model railroad set in Colorado is covered with bridges, but I don't see that many in pictures of the State.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I could go for those areas as well. If could get the wife to go for it, I would already be in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, but she says it too far from good medical care. Sheldon
I lived in Harrisonburg for six years. There is a very decent hospital there: Rockingham Memorial. Similar care in Winchester at one end and in Roanoke at the other.
But, I realize medical care is a very personal decision.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Colorado Ray When I move, the thing I will miss most is the Colorado weather. Don't need a jacket if it's above 45 degrees, Seldom too hot. I live in a higher elevation southern suburb of Denver and normally get about 120 inches of snow a year. But, it snows overnight and usually melts by noon. Nothing like a continuous upper Midwest snow cover. Moving to the southeast where it's been colder this week than in Denver, biting humid cold. Ice storms instead of snow. Summers are hazy hot and humid. My son was a pilot, and I remember flying with him on summer days where you had to be instrument rated because the haze was too bad for VFR. Ray
When I move, the thing I will miss most is the Colorado weather. Don't need a jacket if it's above 45 degrees, Seldom too hot. I live in a higher elevation southern suburb of Denver and normally get about 120 inches of snow a year. But, it snows overnight and usually melts by noon. Nothing like a continuous upper Midwest snow cover.
Moving to the southeast where it's been colder this week than in Denver, biting humid cold. Ice storms instead of snow. Summers are hazy hot and humid. My son was a pilot, and I remember flying with him on summer days where you had to be instrument rated because the haze was too bad for VFR.
Ray
In the limited time I've lived in Georgia, I like the heat, humidity, and the haze (which is humidity). Trees and haze keep the suns rays from striking a direct hit on me. Unlike the midwest where it tends to be clear skied with fields previously cleared of all trees for crop production. And if there is enough haze, it usually turns into rain clouds as the day builds heat, blocking the sun even more.
Official air temperature is measured in the shade. And 95 degrees is tolerable in the SE because trees are and shade are attainable, if not plentiful, in the SE.
A 95 degree official air temp with the sun's rays also beating on me is absolutely horrible, no matter what the ambient humidity is. Just my preference.
As far as modeling, I like the look of a green blanket of foliage sprinkled with brown bare spots rather than brown bare ground sprinkled with green spots.
- Douglas
SeeYou190 Hmmmm. . From my house in Two-Three Hours I can be in the Atlantic Ocean, Gulf Of Mexico, Lake Okeechobee, Intercoastal Waterway, or the new Volcano Bay waterpark at Universal Studios, Orlando. I can also be at the Magic Kingdom, Busch Gardens, or Bern's Steakhouse. . If you have never been to Bern's in Tampa, make sure you go on your next trip. . Do I win? . Anyway... can we get back to the topic of Colorado and why modeler railroaders love it so much. . Are there reallty as many bridges in Colorado as modelers portray? It seems every model railroad set in Colorado is covered with bridges, but I don't see that many in pictures of the State. . -Kevin .
Well Kevin, it's not a contest, but I've explained before why I'm not buying Florida either. My mother lives in Okeechobee, she is very happy.
I can't do your weather..........or the scenery.........
As for Disney and such, been there, done that, multiple times, don't really need to do it again.
I can drive less than hour and ride behind a steam locomotive, 7 days week in spring/summer................I can drive 40 minutes to one of the most important rail museums in the country - every place has its pluses and minuses.
In my limited experience with weather in the west, the climate surrounding a chosen domicile is influenced by elevation almost as much as latitude. Two towns at the same latitude but at two different elevations can have remarkebly different climates.
ATLANTIC CENTRALWell Kevin, it's not a contest, but I've explained before why I'm not buying Florida either.
Um Sheldon,
I was trying to be ludicrous and facetious. Attempting to use humor to point out how absurd all the replies in this thread had become. Colorado and Model Railroading, remember.
You see, from my house, I only have access to Water Features and Tourist Attractions. No mountains, forests, or anything else, just fun. I guess that did not come through when you read it.
Anyway... Are there really that many bridges in Colorado as Model Railroaders make it look on their layouts?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrebell Where I live within two hours you can go from ocean to mountain or surf to snow. Yes I know, but the cost of living and the politics are bad enough here........ Sheldon
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well Kevin, it's not a contest, but I've explained before why I'm not buying Florida either. . Um Sheldon, . I was trying to be ludicrous and facetious. Attempting to use humor to point out how absurd all the replies in this thread had become. Colorado and Model Railroading, remember. . You see, from my house, I only have access to Water Features and Tourist Attractions. No mountains, forests, or anything else, just fun. I guess that did not come through when you read it. . Anyway... Are there really that many bridges in Colorado as Model Railroaders make it look on their layouts? . -Kevin .
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well Kevin, it's not a contest, but I've explained before why I'm not buying Florida either.
Yes there are that many bridges, they are after all mountains, and trains only climb 2% grades......
Same is true here in the Mid Atlantic, bridges, tunnels and curves, and repeat......
When the terrain is not flat, railroads follow the terrain to ease the grades - that means curves, curves that make your route a snake, back and forth, left and right.
Then there are streams and rivers, EVERY valley has a stream......
Then when there is no way around the mountain, you dig a tunnel, a tunnel that likely then requires you to build a bridge on the other side to cross a valley or a river.......
Like this view at Harpers Ferry, note the tunnel at the far end of the bridge:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/99/61/fe9961302e14e67bddbc780b62104ba1.jpg
Btw Sheldon, just curious- where are you at in MD? I have an 1896 house a block off the old Ma & Pa ROW in Roland Park.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
MidlandPacific Btw Sheldon, just curious- where are you at in MD? I have an 1896 house a block off the old Ma & Pa ROW in Roland Park.
That's cool, I know your neighborhood pretty well.
I live in Harford County, right in the village of Forest Hill, which was a Ma & Pa stop.
Wow, anytime I hear from Sheldon, I get a blast from my past having lived in Maryland.
Having looked at the responses, and thinking back to a lot of the Colorado layouts I have seen previously; it has kind of occured to me a good lot of those layouts are being built in the Midwest/East Coast (not to say there aren't Colorado set layouts in the West either, I can think of quite a few here too). Even the discussion about the weather highlights that when traveling East to West the Colorado Rockies are the wall that marks the beginning of "The Wild West."
I guess that kind of contrasts with my own experience in Utah were the major mountain ranges near me is the Wasatch Range to the east, and the Sierra Nevada's to the west (with lots of smaller ranges between them). So when I think "Wild West" in my mind my thoughts go to the natural basin I live in, and not the mountains further to the east in Colorado.
Also somebody pointed out magazine writters sometimes need to make up words to fill up space, so that explains the remark that "Colorado Remains a Modeling Magnet" in that article... I have often pointed out to my friends that the popularity of Appalacian Coal Hauling layouts probably is rooted in the articles on the Virginia & Ohio and Allegeny Midland which spread the thought to other modelers. In much the same way the Colorado layouts act today.
The main reason though I brought it up in the first place, is just that concern that the copycat nature of some layouts is meaning we aren't getting as many diverse layouts being built, because many modelers rush to what they see as popular in the magazines. Its for that reason I have found many of the newer layouts such as Lance Mindheim's two Miami layouts, the various Yosemite Valley layouts featured in the magazines, and lastly Pelle's Daneburg Sub (which I have seen in person in its new home here in Utah) as "revolutionary." They take more obscure locations, prototypical or loosely freelanced, and brought it to the mainstream; locations which might not have been featured in the magazines had their creators decided to just mimic what was already popular. Lance's layouts in particular always blow me away due to their ability to mimic the "ordinary" and the less famous side of railroading. Don't get me wrong though, as far as "another Colorado layout" goes Doug Tagsold's 1/72 layout featured in the article that inspired this whole conversation, is one of the coolest layouts I have seen in the magazine. I admire that he picked the "prototype less traveled" with his early 1900's Colorado Southern rather than riffing the ever popular DRGW/RGS of the late 1950's. And in 1/72 scale to boot! However with that said, I hope it is clear why I rarely get excited about the other Colorado set layouts that often grace the magazine.
Xbox,
I would say that the siren song of narrow gauge and mountains might be key to the appeal. I have many friends who model Colorado Narrow gauge. I had seen so many narrow gauge layouts that when I visited Colorado for the first time several years ago I felt like I had already been there due to the scenery on layouts I visited.
While narrow gauge existed in lots of areas, there isn't nearly as much availible in terms of rolling stock and especially, motive power, to model those lines. There is barely enough for the Colorado lines if you exclude brass.
I chose to model West Coast Sierra Nevada shortlines - YV, Sierra, Hetch Hetchy and Westside (marginally so) because I liked the ramshackle, (narrow minded) shortline feel in a non-Colorado setting.
I'm not sure we are past the peak of interest in Colorado as several of my friends are currently starting or in the process of building new Colorado based layouts.
My narrow gauge buddies speak of the moment that the "narrow gauge bug" bit them and caused them to tear out the layout, sell all the standard gauge equipment and build Colorado. Most were inspired by a visit to the Durrango and Silverton. So far I remain unaffected despite constant exposure to the "bug".
Enough ramblings from me,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
When I first got into the hobby in the 1970s, I noticed that many there were many models of Colorado Narrow Gauge locomotives, rolling stock and structures. As others have noted, it seemed to be too much and I did not understand the its popularily. In 2004, I rode the Cumbres & Toltec for the first time and then understood the appeal. I've been on many commuter rail, Amtrak, special excursion and tourist train rides and feel the Cumbres & Toltec offers the most scenic train ride in the United States. There is something truly magic about Colorado (and New Mexico) narrow gauge lines. I went back for two more rides in 2007 and 2009. Last year, I was in Denver for a professional conference. The day before the start of the conference, I drove into the mountains west of Denver to ride the Georgetown Loop Railroad which was also a very nice ride.
The Rio Grande promoted itself as the "Scenic Line of the World." It lived up to its promise.
OK, I get it. After reading the OP's last post, he is just so concerned that model railroaders are copycats, and being sheep, following along in the Colorado theme, and, you've never heard of Lance Mindheim or Pelle Solberg, or a long list of other modelers going back to John Allen, and beyond.
Here I thought this was just a whimsical thread about Colorado. Now the OP reveals what the motive was. A philosophical thread about the OP's concern over what is being modeled?
Relax Xbox, get out and look around.
Model what you like.
Mike.
My You Tube
Colorado I'm sure hashe some enchanting scenery if it's anything like the Black Hills of South Dakota or the Grande Canyon I can see the attraction!
But seriously the east has some great mountain scenery but the west is by far more beautiful IMHO! And funny thing is the farthest west I've gone is Phoenix, AZ and Keystone, SD so my knowledge of the west is mostly from Google images
Is Colorado overdone, well that's all about perspective... for example I think more mountain railroading articles could be in MR western mountain railroading would have me doing my happy dance, but eastern is still quite interesting!
I think the real overdone stuff is all the new diesels, big boys, and there's definitely a lack of first Gen and early second Gen diesels and steam is also slightly limited hopefully this will get better with time who knows...
I know I kinda went of track a little at the end...
PS, just to give you guys an idea of my happy dance...
Just kidding...
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Looking at the question from a slightly different angle, mountain modeling vs. flatlands modeling, another possible motivation for some folks to model the mountains is that until the past 18-20 years, or so, it was much more difficult to model rolling prairies and crop fields convincingly than it was to model mountainous terrain.
Until the the introduction of new techniques and materials for modeling ground cover in fields, it was far easier to model rock faces and cliffs and tree-covered mountains than the flatlands. Colored sawdust, ground foam and lichen, which were pretty much the main materials available and in use prior to, say, the late 1990s, were at their limits. Static grass and other newer materials adopted over the past two decades make it easier to make convincing flatland scenery.
Plus, with mountain railroading, it is easier to put a lot more track and longer runs into a given space by using tunnels, turnbacks, switchbacks and steeper grades.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
Another reason for modeling the southwest is less trees. In model railroading trees are expencive either in time or money or both. I have spent hundreds on trees and I got really good deals done over time but even the ones I built, not counting the ones I upgraded cost a lot in materials. Now on the east coast hills and stuff they do puff ball and other things to bring down the cost but again to get really good trees you have to upgrade those too. Before I took down my last layout modeling the west, I was always adding trees and my layout gave the impresion of a forest in places but in others it was too sparce.
Hello all,
For me, it's because I live here.
My freelance herald is a combination of two Colorado waterways in my area.
Buckskin Creek not only passes through the middle of town, it is also the water supply for the town.
This creek is a tributary of the Middle Fork of the South Platte River.
I took liberty with the B.S.&P. R.R. spliting up the word Buckskin. Some of my first thoughts were P.R.&B.S. R.R. or B.S.&P.R. R.R.
When deciding on a concept for my freelance pike I narrowed it down to lumber or coal.
Surprisingly enough, a coal seam was the reason the D&SP R.R. chose the particular site for the town of Como, Colorado.
I decided on coal as a commodity. I'm not good at making trees!
Near the town of Paonia; in western Colorado, there is a coal mine that continues to produce to this day: Bowie Resource Limited.
The coal from this mine currently fuels several excursion trains in the state ta' boot!
I model in HO.
The availability of D&RGW and Santa Fe motive power and rolling stock is prevalent.
The era I chose was the late 1970's to the mid 1980's.
Because I love diesels and am limited to a 4"x8" pike GPs were the logical choice and fit into the era I chose.
The prototypical mine site is devoid of trees. The only trees I've seniced are in the corners.
That is why I choose to model Colorado.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I think another factor is mountain scenery is more fun to model!
Now I'm biased to mountain scenery but for the sake of this conversation I'm going to be as objective as possible...
Mountain Scenery:
PROS:
1. More impressive to model
2. Wealth of operations in the form of helper ops
3. Big power Is mandatory
4. Lots of curves fine because that's often how the prototype is
5. Helixes, staging, layovers ect. Can be easily hidden by a tunnel or snowshed...
CONS:
1. scenery takes more work
2. If youre a lone wolf when it comes to operations you might be a little limited
3. If you don't have the budget for big power your in trouble.
4. This one really has no down side in my opinion.
5. Tunnels and snowsheds mean more difficult to access track work in the event of a derailment or track work/maintenance...
Flat lands scenery:
1. Cheaper to scenic
2. Lone wolf ops can work because everything is reletively visible and in view
3. Smaller power will work especially on locals and such
4. Flat out running is perfect and also if you have a narrow long space curves aren't necessarily needed..
5. track work is easy because everythings in plain view...
1. Less scenery can be a bit boring..
2. If you do multi person ops you see everything else going on which can be distracting...
3. Smaller power is cheaper so this one is kinda no down side
4. Curves are hard to hide
5. Again everythings in plain view so details are everything...
This is just my opinion, I'm not an expert, nor am I trying to discourage anyone from modeling either...
Happy Railroading!!!
I think the key being that so much still exhists and is running as tourist railroads now. Folks want to model what they see or can ride. This leaves those who want eastern narrow gauge stuff out in the cold so to speak. Stuff like narrow gauge Shays or logging in general, along with eastern narrow gauge stuff is brass. If you want common DRGW stuff, then more options exhist. For standard gauge, probably just the scenery of that part of the country. But pretty much anybody I know that models Colorado railroads is a narrow gauge modeler. I model a bit further west with a logging line with the flavor of the Westside Lumber Co in the works right now. Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome