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Problem with new Atlas Code 83 turnouts. Update - differences between #6 and #8 turnouts explained.

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  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 3:53 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
So, while all have 9.5 degree frogs, the PECO has the sharpest closure radius, followed by the Shinohara, with Atlas being the broadest. The PECO and the Shinohara also have shorter points, meaning they likely have a sharper angle of diversion at the points I realize these are very small differences, but considering how we compress our trackage in the first place, I am happy to go with the larger...

I was able to run P2k SD60s with a train at track speed through the divering route on Peco #6s with no issues, I dont remember if I tried it with SD9043s or not.  

I will report results next time I get the chance to test it (probably first weekend in February).

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 3:58 PM

jjdamnit

jjdamnit
hon30critter ...I'm not going to spend my time trying to help Atlas correct their engineering mistakes. The market will do that for them - eventually.

I was in a bad mood when I wrote that, as if you couldn't tell.Smile, Wink & Grin

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 4:31 PM

wp8thsub
The Peco code 83 #6 had a shorter distance between the point and frog than other brands.

Missed that, thanks. Yes, the lead is apparently shorter by 10% or so than Atlas based on Sheldon's measurements (I find a shorter lead measurement than Sheldon on an older Atlas #6 Customline I have here in the office -- not worth arguing).

Not sure that equates to a performance difference, but Sheldon's measurements are generally correct.

  • Member since
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  • From: Maryland
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 6:44 PM

BMMECNYC

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
So, while all have 9.5 degree frogs, the PECO has the sharpest closure radius, followed by the Shinohara, with Atlas being the broadest. The PECO and the Shinohara also have shorter points, meaning they likely have a sharper angle of diversion at the points I realize these are very small differences, but considering how we compress our trackage in the first place, I am happy to go with the larger...

 

I was able to run P2k SD60s with a train at track speed through the divering route on Peco #6s with no issues, I dont remember if I tried it with SD9043s or not.  

I will report results next time I get the chance to test it (probably first weekend in February).

 

First, I don't think the difference would ever be a performance issue with any diesel, even the biggest/longest diesels should be just fine or either a PECO or Atlas #6.

Where the sharper closure and shorter points ofthe PECO may be an issue is long rigid wheel base steam, 2-10-2, 2-10-4, 2-12-4, and even west coast 4-8-4's like GS-4's.

Sheldon

    

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  • From: Heart of Georgia
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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 7:03 PM

The difference between Atlas 83 and Peco 83 closure radius likely would not impact performance.  However, I believe the diverging route of the Atlas straightens out before the frog whereas the Peco is more of a consistent curve up to the frog.  Because of the straight section, the Atlas may in fact have a tighter embedded radius because it achieves its diverging angle over a shorter distance despite the distance between the frog and the points being longer, sort of a mild kink in the travel.  That was my observation when I compared them one on top of the other.  Hardly a big deal and I doubt the differences in the geometry between the Atlas , Peco, Shinohara, and ME turnouts would have any impact on performance.  

I say appearance, price, compactness, quality, and wiring/switch machine installation are probably the deciding factors for most of us.

- Douglas

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 7:04 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
here the sharper closure and shorter points ofthe PECO may be an issue is long rigid wheel base steam, 2-10-2

Well, Ive tested the NJ custom brass B&M 2-10-2 on Peco Medium (12 degree frog, 36" effective radius) code 100.  I can go test that on my #6s for comparisons sake.  Results were satisfactory at medium speed.  

Could turn out to be a fun project... I'll see what makes it through.  

  • Member since
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 7:22 PM

cuyama

 

 
wp8thsub
The Peco code 83 #6 had a shorter distance between the point and frog than other brands.

 

Missed that, thanks. Yes, the lead is apparently shorter by 10% or so than Atlas based on Sheldon's measurements (I find a shorter lead measurement than Sheldon on an older Atlas #6 Customline I have here in the office -- not worth arguing).

Not sure that equates to a performance difference, but Sheldon's measurements are generally correct.

 

Admittedly the Atlas has a blunt frog point compared with the others, so it is hard to determine the theortical point of the frog, making the measurement a little subjective.

But the "sharp spot" in the closure rails of the PECO is much more clearly obvious than on the Atlas.

And I agree, it is questionable as to how much any of this would effect performance, except possibly as noted above, with long rigid wheelbase steam.

But at $14 vs $25, I'm all in for Atlas, especially since I like the frog wiring system, the thru wiring and the reversible un sprung throwbar.

After paint, weathering and ballast, they all look about the same to me, so appearance issues are a wash for me.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 8:53 PM

For whatever it is worth...

.

My largest locomotive is a brass USRA heavy 4-8-2. It has run, at speed, pulling a train, through every #6 switch that it has ever crossed. No derailment problems ever.

.

I do not have any 10 coupled steamers.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by Redvdub1 on Saturday, June 9, 2018 3:56 PM

All the point rails that I have analyzed to date are zinc..same as the metal frogs.  I believe they were cast and then extruded to final shape.  The Peco point rails are nickel-silver..at least the ones that I analyzed were nickel-silver.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, June 9, 2018 6:40 PM

Redvdub1

All the point rails that I have analyzed to date are zinc..same as the metal frogs.  I believe they were cast and then extruded to final shape.  The Peco point rails are nickel-silver..at least the ones that I analyzed were nickel-silver.

 

The #8 Atlas has a cast point, yes some soft metal casting. The other Atlas turnouts (#4, #6, wye) use a stamped sheet metal point.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, June 9, 2018 7:01 PM

SeeYou190
My largest locomotive is a brass USRA heavy 4-8-2. It has run, at speed, pulling a train, through every #6 switch that it has ever crossed. No derailment problems ever.

.

What was I thinking when I wrote that? I must have been half asleep.

.

My largest steam locomotive is an EM-1 2-8-8-4! I have alse recently added a 4-8-4 and a 2-6-6-2 to the fleet.

.

My 4-8-2 locomotives are light, not heavy. The USRA 2-8-2s that I have are heavy (2), and light (3). I was obviously very confused.

.

Anyway... all my steam locomotives can go through #6 turnouts with no problem.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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