Hi gang!
I have resisted the urge to buy brass locomotives for a long time. Recently my resolve broke down. I have thrown caution to the wind and bid on two Alco switchers, an S1 and an S3. The S1 has a visible drive shaft between the front and rear trucks. The S3 doesn't appear to have a drive shaft between the trucks and I can't see any drive shafts coming out of the trucks, but the photo is too dark to tell for sure. Both are made in Japan.
Can anyone comment on the quality of these models? Are they decent runners or shelf queens?
Thanks,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Both should be decent runners with some tuning up. I have diesels with both styles of drives from Alco, and the one with the shaft underneath is actually the best runner I've gotten from them. None of them are quiet, but they're good entry-level brass products.
EDIT: The one I have with the shaft underneath is actually Hallmark, but they all come from KMT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5P0yZB99Vg
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Hey Darth!
Thank you for sharing your review. At least I know that I haven't spent my money on shelf queens. Not sure if I will bother to put sound decoders in them with all the gear noise. I'll wait until I have then in hand to decide.
Cheers!!
I assume you mean Alco Models? Since the prototypes of those were ALSO Alco as in the locomotive builder.
I have one of their RS-3's. It's been remotored and that was partially a bit of "how you doing" work, but otherwise it is a fine model. I'd buy another. I need to redo the driveline, the new motor was put ooff center and so for the long side it has some Athearn parts which work just fine. On the short side, it had some NWSL parts but the shaft was so short it didn;t allow any back and forth motion and barely could turn. Maybe if I had no curves less than 48" it would have been fine. I ripped that out and used a piece of model plane fuel line as a temporary fix and it runs pretty well. It has a nice can motor so I don;t want to get rid of that.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hi Dave,
I purchased an Alco Models H20-44 (ca. 1980) in January of this year. The front and rear drive shafts are hidden up inside the shell.
Mine came with a can motor and the brushes already isolated from the frame. I initially installed a TCS M1P decoder into it to see how it would do on DCC. After a 45-min break-in period, the drive train smoothed right out and it was purring at 0.25sMPH without any hesitation.
My H20-44 does have a bit of gear whine (expected) but it's not bad. After some trial 'n error I was able to install a Loksound Select Micro decoder into it:
It initially didn't run as well as the TCS M1P. However, after running the Loksound "automatic motor tuning feature", the Select Micro decoder rivelled the TCS M1P in motor control.
I had originally planned to install two TDS SuperSonic Small speakers in my H20-44; one on each end. The sound was so good and clear with just the one that I never installed the 2nd. I also found that the sound obscured any noise of the drive train - even when turned down to 60%.
I guess it will depend how noisy your drive trains will be whether sound is worth it or not, Dave. I'm happy I did but would still be just as happy with just the motor-only TCS M1P decoder.
I also have a Alco Models 0-6-0 switcher that I eventually want to convert to DCC and possibly add sound. I'm assuming it will also require some break-in time. My hope is that it will run as well as the H20-44.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
My only brass diesel is a Hallmark GP passenger locomotive. It has a driveshaft in between the trucks. It is from around 1980.
.
I am pretty happy with how it runs. About equivilent with my Athearn models. I have not had any problems. If I ever have any problems with it, but I do have a Proto 2000 chassis for it if I ever need to repower the model.
I hope this helps.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Back in the 60s I had four Alco Models RS1s and while the shell was the best of the time the KMT drive was very noisy but smooth running.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have an Alco Models, T6 Transfer Switcher with the drive shaft between the two trucks, I am in the process of installing an Atlas S? Switcher drive in place of the original KMT drive as mine original drive was terrible and any and all work I did on it did not make it any better.
Those KMT drives were always if you got a good one you were lucky if not you had to remotor, regear or something to make them run.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Disclaimer: I have never owned a brass train so I admit I am full of misconceptions.
Poking around the brasstrains.com site, I was surprised the engine noise is a routine part of the description. The engines I looked at were more likely to be on the noisy side than the quiet side.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Yes, Early brass diesels were noisy.
I have two locomotives powered by Overland Models brass replacement chassis/drive systems, and they only run marginally better than Athearn.
There's a tendency for locomotives with "tower" gears to be noisy. I think that's because, at least at the top end of the tower, the teeth are hitting each other pretty fast and sharp. Even the fabled Hobbytown drives have gear whine. At least, mine all do.
The common version of diesel drive these days is to have a worm gear at the beginning of the reduction, and a bunch of spur gears down in the truck to transfer between axles. Those gears run at a much reduced speed, and thus the teeth hits are less frequent.
Thus, I think it's not so much the age of the locomotive, but the design of the drive train.
For diesels, anyway, it does seem that sound might cover up part of the gear noise. As was stated by another, above. After all, there really ARE gears in diesel locomotives. Unfortunately, that concept doesn't help with steam. And I've got two Tenshodo articulateds with gear towers. Their only failing.
Ed
dti406Those KMT drives were always if you got a good one you were lucky if not you had to remotor, regear or something to make them run. Rick
Indeed..I lucked out and all four of my RS1s was noisy but ran smooth.I still racked my teenage brain on the best method of repowering those Alcos. Today I know how to do it..
Now where's that fool time machine? I would love to return to the 60s and buy some brass Alcos especially a RSD 4/5 and RSD-12.
rrinkerI assume you mean Alco Models?
Hi Randy:
Yes, I should have said "Alco Models".
dti406Those KMT drives were always if you got a good one you were lucky if not you had to remotor, regear or something to make them run.
Hi Rick:
I think you left a word out "KMT drives were always (???) if you got a good one you were lucky..."
I'm guessing the the missing word has negative connotations. I'm quite prepared to spend some time working on them. I rather expected to have to do that given the asking prices on eBay and at brasstrains.com. I have several very good can motors on hand. I bought a box of various can motors for peanuts a while ago on eBay. There were more than a dozen motors in the box, and in amongst the junk there were four or five decent quality motors. As for gears, that's what NWSL is for!
Hi Dave
I have the same two Alco's you have. I couldn't get them to run either. I replaced the motor, drive shafts and trucks from Atlas. They're beautiful runners now.
Jim
Some of the noise in brass diesels relates to their construction as thin metal boxes screwed or soldered to sheet metal platforms. A little work with camper tape or a tube of GE silicone could do quite a bit toward tuning out rattles and buzzes.
hon30critter dti406 Those KMT drives were always if you got a good one you were lucky if not you had to remotor, regear or something to make them run. Hi Rick: I think you left a word out "KMT drives were always (???) if you got a good one you were lucky..." I'm guessing the the missing word has negative connotations. I'm quite prepared to spend some time working on them. I rather expected to have to do that given the asking prices on eBay and at brasstrains.com. I have several very good can motors on hand. I bought a box of various can motors for peanuts a while ago on eBay. There were more than a dozen motors in the box, and in amongst the junk there were four or five decent quality motors. As for gears, that's what NWSL is for! Dave
dti406 Those KMT drives were always if you got a good one you were lucky if not you had to remotor, regear or something to make them run.
Dave,
By the way if your need universals the best on the market are the old Hobbytown ones and since somebody just bought Hobbytown from Bear Metals, they are now available again. Most remotoring specialists use the Hobbytown parts.
http://hobbytownofboston.com/
dti406By the way if your need universals the best on the market are the old Hobbytown ones and since somebody just bought Hobbytown from Bear Metals, they are now available again. Most remotoring specialists use the Hobbytown parts.
Thanks again Rick!
You still haven't told us what the missing word was! Please read your post again and then have another look at the first paragraph in my post:
dti406I think you left a word out "KMT drives were always (???) if you got a good one you were lucky...
I'm dying of suspense! I need to know how bad they really were! How big a hammer will I need to fix them???
P.S. I'm off to Northern Ontario until Sept 3rd. Talk then.