Im curious as to the lifetime of an engine motor , if say you run it an hour a day every day? Also do they put coreless motors in model train engines or do they all have brushes?
As far as lifetime, it's part initial build quality, and part how you take care of it. If you keep hair, dust, etc... out of the drivetrain, and maintain and lube your locos, they will keep going for a darn long time.
For example, my very first engine, a Life-like Santa Fe GP38-2 (a cheapo Proto No-thousand as Doctorwayne says) ran for 10 years, and got a lot of mileage from me using it, because it got taken care of. Any good engine should go for a while if you take care of it. Its why old Athearn Blue Box locos are still sold for a good price.
Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.
My oldest blue box Athearn is 30+ years old. Still going.
Dave
Decades at least for motors. The oilite bearings are good for many many years, assuming you keep them oiled. The carbon brushes are equally long lived, and you can replace them if they ever wear down. The antique Alnico magnets used in old open field motors can loose their magnetism over time, but you can replace them with nyeodium supermagnets. The newer can motors use ceramic magnets that keep their magnetic strength pretty much forever.
I don't understand why anyone bothers with "coreless" motors for model railroading. A coreless motor is built without an iron core to the motor armature, making the armature lighter and able to switch from forward to reverse in milliseconds rather than tens of milliseconds. This is of interest to people building electronic servomechanisms, but it doesn't help model railroad locomotives. In fact we usually add heavy flywheels to our motors to smooth out their running and hold enough kinetic energy to pull the locomotive over a small dead spot in the track. Which totally defeats the reason for building a light armature coreless motor.
It is possible to build a small brushless DC motor but I never heard of anyone using one in a model railroad locomotive.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Built sometime between the late '40s and when I got it, used, in 1956, this John English Pacific is still running, although it's undergone several cosmetic make-overs in that time....
It's currently out of service for another makeover, but is still running with its original open-frame motor, and is a very strong puller. I may replace the brass drivers (only to eliminate tread cleaning, as the brass treads oxidise quite rapidly), and might even install a can motor and NWSL gearbox - not because of any dissatisfaction with its operational capabilities, though, but simply because I can. The tender shown is mostly styrene, and was scratchbuilt, while the vestibule cab is a plastic (I couldn't afford the brass version) kit from Kemtron (now Precision Scale Co.).
Wayne
Well my Fleischmann engine from the late 50's still works like a charm. This after my brothers and I used to play with our trains on the floor and crash them into each other and never did any maintenance on them. So I would say a good engine will run forever.
Paul
Evidently they will outlive me,good to know they will keep on chuggin. I thought the brushes would wear out in a few years.
I don't know about other manufacturers, but if you have an Athearn, you can buy brushes, and the springs.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH90037
Mike
My You Tube
As long as you take care of them, they should last a lifetime.
My experience is that they last until they fall to the floor. Fortunately that has not been a common occurence.
With a little TLC, your locos can outlive you without any problems!
I have a couple of 40 year old Marklin locos which are as ccrisp as on their first day!
A number of brass imports during the 1970's and 1980's built by Samhongsa for Key Imports and likely others DID use Cannon coreless motors. These models have a reputation for running very well.
I have an Arnold N scale Gp9 from the early 70's that still runs. I also have some Minitrix N locos from the mid 70's that still run great. They run loud by modern standards, but the motors and metal gears are very durable.
James Sanchez
I have N scale engines still running form the early 70s. Of course they haven't been run "an hour every day", as I think you will find you won't do that unless you are in your forever home and actually have time to run them an hour a day.
Otherwise, they will have periods of time stored in boxes, moved, set up and reset up and left idle at times.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Hi all,new poster here, but have been reading the forum for over 2 yrs.One question I have,that I haven't really seen answered or I just missed it, is the length of time you run the engines and how often you do the maintenance and how much in depth do you get, doing the maintenance. I have HO and N guage running on my platform, 2-4X6 plywood with the left side turned so it's 10 foot along the back.I may run 2 different trains a day for 6 hours. Tomorrow I will run 2 or 3 different trains.All told there may be about 50 or 60 hours of run time on each engine in about a month.I have Kato and Atlas N scale engines,8 of them,on DC power,and all of them newer models. I also have 6 Bachmann DCC HO locomotives,all of them newer models and all are diesels.I have read and seen videos on what the length of time the service intervals are,from Bachmann videos to be done at 8 hours of running time for N scale engines to 200 hours of opperation on the Kato's. When I do the service on my engines,I completely dissasemble them,clean with alcohol,and lube with Labelle 108 for N scale and 102 on the HO scale and 106 grease on the worm gears on both scales.I even oil the axles on all the gears,very sparingly, in the trucks.I know the new plastic itself,delrin, is very slippery,but, I am a retired mechanic,and in my book, if you want it to last and it moves, it gets lubed. RR_Mel,you said, "My LHS had a display HO locomotive running all day long 6 days a week for 28 years".Would you happen to know how often and how in depth the service was done? Does anyone use lube on the armature and brushes? What would be the proper length of service intervals on running the trains 50 to 60 hours per month, run in a not very dusty or animal hairy room.I also clean the tracks,a wipe with alcohol, about once a week. I would like to say Hi to all the posters here that I see that are around Pittsburgh,I live in Monroeville PA. In advance, thanks to all that respond.
Hi,
Can't speak to N, but can assure you the bulk of HO locos (NOT trainset quality) will easily last decades - if taken care of as many indicated earlier on this thread.
The OP gave running an hour a day as a criteria. I would say an hour a week or less is much more likely. Heck, I've got 28 power units on my layout and even during my heavy operations period, I may only run half or so. Actually, some may go a year without running (but they do look good in the engine house).
Even with that, with a proper climate in the room and maintenance, they all start right up and do their thing pretty easily.
That said, a real test of a locos reliability would be like the old Lionel/Flyer store window layouts of the late 40s and 50s. Get a loco in front of 10 passenger or 25 freight cars and run it around a sizeable loop - for 12 or so hours a day...... With maintenance, that will sure tell how good a particular loco holds up.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Mobilman 44, I have an easy chair in my train room & usually when I go to the train room,which is just about every night,I sometimes read a book or study. Before I know it two hours have gone by. I like to put a train, n or ho on the track running around the layout until I leave the room. Remember on my layout it takes over 30 minutes,( I have timed it) for the trains to come back to the starting point. I run the engines at very low speeds. A lot of times I just put my track cleaning car on the track to keep the rails clean. Im not saying eveyone should do what I do but thats what I like to do.To each his own.
For the past 30 years plus, my Athearn locos are still running where my Tyco, early Bachmann, Atlas and AHM have bit the dust. In fact I replaced the motor in an AHM years back and it is still running. The other motors all seemed to be on the weak side. The new Bachmann seems to be very solid as does the Walthers Life Like.
Roger Hensley= ECI Railroad - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/eci/eci_new.html == Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ =
Really, there's two questions here:
1). How old?2). How far?
Properly preserved, model trains will last for generations in storage (not counting the rare zamac rot).
As for how far they will run before major failure? Well, the layout at the Chicago Museum of Science & Industry (MSI) has a layout that runs every day. They know how fast the trains are going and how long their layout is. The record holding locos are a set of Athearn SD70's that ran about 3000 actual miles before major component failure. Brushes and axle bearings were regularly replaced as a major failure is usually something that melts, falls apart, or breaks and they can't fix it.
If you run an HO loco every day for an hour at 60 scale MPH, it'll run about 3600 ft. It would take you 1,466 days (or over 4 years) just to break 1000 actual miles. The Chicago MSI tripled that before the Athearn Genesis SD70's failed.
Just figure that every mechanical device has a finite lifespan of use. But it's a long, long time.
How long a motor will last depends on quality, design, and maintenance. The Tyco Power-Torque motor was made to be extremely cheap, and was designed to run for about 40 hours before burning out. A Pittman DC-71, on the other hand, can last for decades with proper maintenance. Chances are, if you pick up a locomotive made in 1948 that was run a lot, and it has a Pittman motor, the motor will still run like new if it was well maintained.
dstarrI don't understand why anyone bothers with "coreless" motors for model railroading. A coreless motor is built without an iron core to the motor armature, making the armature lighter and able to switch from forward to reverse in milliseconds rather than tens of milliseconds. This is of interest to people building electronic servomechanisms, but it doesn't help model railroad locomotives. In fact we usually add heavy flywheels to our motors to smooth out their running and hold enough kinetic energy to pull the locomotive over a small dead spot in the track. Which totally defeats the reason for building a light armature coreless motor.
There are actually some advantages, and my coreless powered models are some of my best runners.
Control - One big advantage is that they are cog-less. Since there isn't a constant pull on the iron poles from magnets, they never get stuck in one spot. This allows them to start more easily from a full stop, and they have better control and torque at low speeds.
Efficiency - Since the magnets aren't pulling on an iron core, the current draw is lower because the motor doesn't have to continuously overcome the pulling of the core. The cup-shaped windings are also more efficient at converting electricity to torque, so the motor doesn't have to use as much power to move the same load. More efficiency = less heat and more trains on the track.
Size/torque - A coreless motor can take 25% or even 50% less space than an iron core motor with the same amount of torque. So you get more room for things like weight or electronics without sacrificing the pulling power, or you can fit more power in the same space. For a couple examples, I swapped the huge DC-90 in my Hobbytown PA-1 for a 9-pole coreless motor of nearly the same size, and the torque was nearly doubled and the low speed was considerably improved! I'm also finishing up an F7 powering project right now, and the 13x30mm coreless motor I used is less than half the size of your typical 18x33mm can motor but has just as much torque.
Operation - Coreless motors require tighter manufacturing quality, so operation is more consistent from motor to motor. They also tend to be extremely quiet. The lack of an iron core also helps with coasting since it basically has free momentum when the power is cut, and when the armature is large enough, it becomes a flywheel on its own. The motor I used in the Hobbytown PA-1 coasts for a few seconds on its own, and when I added the flywheel, it brought it up to nearly 10 seconds!
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Besides motors we also have gear failures and excessive driver or rod wear. Some folks open the gearboxes of better locos once a year, clean out the crud with denatured alcohol, and relubricate. Keep just a small drop of oil on driverods so as not to attract dirt.
The better brass imports now come with stainless steel driver tires and sometimes also valve gear. They are extremely wear resistant. That combined with low maximum speed means they will last exceptionally well, but they are not cheap either.
In forty years I have only seen a handfull of steam engines that had noticeable rod wear. Most never get run enough for that. Drivers with wheeltread plating loss are far more common and can make for more track dirt and or pickup issues, but the engines will still run.
Gear failures happen with some plastic gears partly due to shrinkage over time, but replacements are usually available.
Please do not ever apply lubricant to either the commutator or the brushes of an open frame motor. That will kill it. Oil on wire windings will instantly short out the motor. These are the 2 places you never oil: armature and brushes.
Some Proto 2000 engines never require motor bearing lubrication. They used graphite impregnated bronze bearings, and unless they squeak they may never need lubrication under normal use...not 8 hour per day use.
There is one thing that can be used to lubricate a motor commutator, and that's an electrical contact lubricant like 2-26. Just follow the directions and allow the lubricant carrier to dry before applying power.
I read somewhere years ago that wd40 could be used safely to clean motors in train engines ,I havent tried it so cant say one way or the other.