I took a risk and bought a Bowser 4-6-6-4 kit and 4-8-8-4 kit off Ebay. I replaced both motors with a DC-71 motor and modified the drive line. They are very noisey. The noise increases with speed.
Does a worm and gear type drive line quite down over time?
Has anybody experience converting the driveline to the "gearbox" from NWSL?
Has anybody used DCC with the DC71 motor?
Maybe in can use a DCC sound card and just 'drown the sound'
Like this from TCRR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4S6mAQ--cQ
Thanks
Thomas
Thomas,
the gear noise will eventually get a little less, but don´t expect miracles. I assume the gears to be brass gears and metall gears are noisy. Trying to "drown" the gear noise by installing sound into the loco won´t help much - all you get is a loco which is even noisier!
DC-71 motors draw a lot of amps and are potentially "eating" decoders, if their rating is too low. Better to install a Maxxon or Buehler motor.
As Ulrich stated, that particular motor might draw too much current for any decoder currently on the market. I would email or call NWSL and see what they recommend.
Also, I would try running your steamer on a big loop of track - backwards and forwards & at different speeds - to properly break it in. That should quiet it down some but I don't know how much. You might want to try that a couple of times; cleaning the re-greasing the gears each time. What lubricant are you using on your gears?
Lastly, here's a clickable version of the link you provided:
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Mel
You used the Faulhaber 2224 RS motor with the bowser drive line?
And the current draw of the Faulhaber 2224 RS is low enough for a sound decoder. Was the decoder and speaker in the tender?
I also have a Bowser 4-6-6-4 with the DC-71 motor, and I found most of the noise came from the universal coupling at the motor end. The sharp angle cause a LOT of noise. I eventually replaced it with a drive tubing system and a 2nd shaft with its own support bearings, and it's a decently quiet runner now.
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The spec sheet for the Pittman DC-71B has a current range from .2A to 1 A, with a note that current at recommended speed is .7A.
The Tsunami 2 TSU-2200 is rated at 2 A.
The Loksound Select is rated at 1.1 A. It is also protected "against overload or short circuits".
I mention this because you may be satisfied with the Pittman installation, but want to add a decoder or sound.
Ed
graymatter Mel You used the Faulhaber 2224 RS motor with the bowser drive line? And the current draw of the Faulhaber 2224 RS is low enough for a sound decoder. Was the decoder and speaker in the tender? Thomas
I am a former Bowser employee. Whenever they did any repair work on a steamer they ran them on the store layout for a minimum of 50 hours to break them in and quiet them down...honest truth. With time they DO quiet down but the unmodified original drives will never be what one might call quiet by most people's current standards for steam power.
The open gears and any nylon material at all (others like Mantua used nylon gears) are notorious for producing noise. If you want quiet you need fully enclosed gearboxes and can motors.
Some folks like Howard Zane now swear by the Faulhaber motors for their excellent torque and performance.
PRR8259 I am a former Bowser employee. Whenever they did any repair work on a steamer they ran them on the store layout for a minimum of 50 hours to break them in and quiet them down...honest truth. With time they DO quiet down but the unmodified original drives will never be what one might call quiet by most people's current standards for steam power. The open gears and any nylon material at all (others like Mantua used nylon gears) are notorious for producing noise. If you want quiet you need fully enclosed gearboxes and can motors. Some folks like Howard Zane now swear by the Faulhaber motors for their excellent torque and performance.
Best steam kits I have ever built! When they announced they were leaving that business, I had two on back order, and went out and bought them on EBay as quickly as possible. They truly are wonderful kits, and it's too bad the market no longer supported the business. With time and care, they build up into wonderful, durable models, and they're easy to customize (except the PRR engines, but only because it's impossible to disguise a PRR design).
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
It was my first job and I worked winters, summers, and weekends (when not working for PennDOT on summer weekdays) while getting through engineering school. In PA you have to be 18 or a high school graduate to work in a machine shop. For me there were two days difference either way, and I started working there on my 18th birthday.
I was privileged to do some of the nastiest, dirtiest work they had: bead blasting, turning armatures on a lathe, casting zinc boilers, milling and drilling. I drilled all the boiler holes on the first run of M1 and M1a steamers, if I recall correctly, and learned many valuable lessons from Lee, Lew, and Lew, Jr.
Yes, there have been many fine modelers who loved the kits!
Unfortunately, at the end the yearly kit sales allegedly did not match the factory payroll (some folks also had time on the mail order side of the business), so further production of steam locomotives, kit or rtr, was unsustainable.
I am sure they are glad to periodically hear from the satisfied owners of those engines, so thank you for the kind comments...I will pass them along the next time I am in town to see them. They do not spend much time in online forums, only a little bit here and there, because are busy just making product.
PRR8259 Unfortunately, at the end the yearly kit sales allegedly did not match the factory payroll (some folks also had time on the mail order side of the business), so further production of steam locomotives, kit or rtr, was unsustainable. I am sure they are glad to periodically hear from the satisfied owners of those engines, so thank you for the kind comments...I will pass them along the next time I am in town to see them. They do not spend much time in online forums, only a little bit here and there, because are busy just making product.
I recently completed a Bowser Casey Jones kit, and I enjoyed it so much I have been trying to find another Bowser kit to build. I've looked at train shows and eBay, but I have't had much luck--I recently lost an auction for a Challenger. I just won a K-4s, however, and I'm excited, even though I don't model PRR. It's too bad the kits were unsustainable.
Gary
I did not realize that Bowser had taken over the old Varney Casey Jones. That loco always had a long-limbed grace, to me. I remember an article in MR where one was used to build the first (?) sound equipped HO locomotive.
7j43k I did not realize that Bowser had taken over the old Varney Casey Jones. That loco always had a long-limbed grace, to me. I remember an article in MR where one was used to build the first (?) sound equipped HO locomotive. Ed
The Casey Jones and the Old Lady were taken over by Bowser--some of the castings still said Varney on my Casey Jones--though the mechanisms were redone.
Edit: Forgot to mention, DCC (TCS T1) with the DC71 motor, though the kit did come with the one with two wires.
Andre,
That's it! Thanks.
That is a nice long article, and very interesting.
7j43k Andre, That's it! Thanks. That is a nice long article, and very interesting. Ed
You're welcome. Some part of my rapidly failing long term memory leads me to believe that the 4-6-0 actually appeared in an earlier MR article on the Puget Sound Short Lines and that Chaudiere had modified the Casey Jones to look more like an NP S-4. There was an article in the May, 1959, MR on the PSSL and I think the locomotive (pre-sound) appeared in that article.
Andre
That's good of you. I hope to be a satisfied customer for a long time to come, since I have four unbuilt kits, a dockside to super detail, and a Cary boiler kit that I have plans for. Perhaps I will live to finish them!
TSTAGE
I am using Labelle 296 grease with polyltetrafluoroethylene (I try to use atleast one multisylable word everyday) on the worm and gear.
I may have talked to LEE at Bowser (hate to rely on memrory) and he said you could use just about any oil on the Bowser kits. But I have been using some Labelle I purchased through Bowser. The Labella 107 is electrically conductive oil.
garyaThe Casey Jones and the Old Lady were taken over by Bowser--some of the castings still said Varney on my Casey Jones--though the mechanisms were redone.
One of these boilers, given to me by a friend, is original Varney, while the other was bought from Bowser, but I don't remember which is which.
Both have re-done mechanisms, from Bachmann, and the cabs and tenders are from Bachmann, too.
The only Bowser locomotive I have is this ex-NYC K-11 Pacific. It's been fitted with a can motor and NWSL gearbox, and a Tyco tender.
Wayne
Wayne,
Those are about the best looking Casey Jones's that I've seen. I'm impressed that you removed the cast-on piping, which I feel was the model's biggest failing/irritant.
Good work!
Thanks for your generous assessment, Ed.
There's an illustrated thread showing the construction HERE.
You've been bad.
Well, not THAT bad.
But I see that you "declined to incorporate" the spacing and arrangement of the Varney frame. I feel that that was part of the charm.
Do not assume that I have a problem with your results, but part of the "Varney-ness" was the overall axle spacing.
Like I've done any better.....
Re: Arbour Models
I was actually still working at Bowser at the time they acquired the Arbour Models tooling, which would be 25 or more years ago now, as I last worked for Bowser during May of 1992, prior to my career in civil engineering.
Lee originally had every intention of re-releasing the Arbour Models kits. They did not acquire the tooling just to permanently shelve it. However, it was found that the condition of some of the tooling and some of the mechanism guts (design?) was...just not up to the kind of standards Bowser was trying to provide in their other kits. Extensive upgrades or modifications would have been required, upgrades that would have taken time away from other Bowser projects that were in development during those years.
My perception is that a few times through the years Lee probably looked into trying to bring the Arbour Models back to market, but the effort required would have been too much, and then the market for the metal steam locomotive kits just absolutely plummeted, and never came back.
Some lucky retail store customers were able to buy boxes of Arbour Models locomotive parts recently, including the berkshires or 2-10-4's. I definitely saw a box with at least 3 NKP-style berkshire boiler castings in it and a whole bunch of other related parts that was out for sale cheap. Bowser was just recently cleaning out the old Arbour Models parts that they had on hand, and blowing out everything through the retail store.
I cannot recall if they still had any left the last time I was there.
Perhaps a sad ending to the story...one would have to be a real craftsman, a true master modeler (with or without the piece of paper), to build a good running model out of one of the Arbour Models kits. Apparently some people actually did.
John
7j43k....But I see that you "declined to incorporate" the spacing and arrangement of the Varney frame. I feel that that was part of the charm......
While I had wanted the Varney locomotive from the first time I saw it in their catalogue, where it was shown on John Allen's layout, I never did own one. A friend gave me the Varney boiler (he acquired it in a box of garage sale stuff, I think, and never had the rest of the locomotive or the tender). Once I realised the possibility of modifiying it to fit the Bachmann mechanism, I order the second casting from Bowser.I had originally bought the Bachmann 10-Wheelers to make into CNR locomotives, but the axle spacing was too far off for a believeable-looking match. If I had had a place on the layout to add an interchange with the NYC's line in southern Ontario (the area in which I've set my layout), they would have been left almost original, with only the tenders changed.I'm guessing that those of us who have freelance-style layouts often do things to models which make some purists apoplectic, but I do try to keep things reasonably realistic.
I eventually did manage to get a CNR 10-Wheeler, when a used brass one showed-up at my LHS. Without its original box and needing some TLC, the cost was reasonable enough even for me. I did a few minor repairs and modifications, then gave it a new paint job...