My soldering skills are far from tip-top, but are improving with practice. As to making up and soldering handrails and chainlink fence frames from staight wire is there a difinitive advantage in using phosphor bronze over brass?
Thanks and regards, Peter
Phosphor bronze is springier and stronger than brass. I can buy brass wire in stores, but you would have to mail order phosphor bronze. For things like handrails, which may get handled and damaged, phosphor bronze would give you a stronger handrail.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Phosphor bronze wire is available from Tichy and K&S (Special Shapes). It's available in hobbyshops, or through Walthers, and can be ordered direct from the suppliers mentioned, too.
A good practice when soldering wire is to clean it beforehand (before you even cut it to length). To do this easily, I grasp one end of the wire in smooth-jawed pliers, then pinch the free portion of the wire in the fold of some fine sandpaper held in my fingers. The sandpaper is then drawn along the length of the wire several times, rotating the wire between passes. Re-locate the pliers to the clean end of the wire, and repeat the process to clean the remainder of the wire.I use either wet/dry sandpaper (use it dry) or a fine aluminum oxide paper. This removes the oxide which forms on most metal surfaces, and will help to make the joint not only stronger, but easier to accomplish.
Wayne
Well for one...there is a Big difference between brass wire and hardened brass rod. The rod does not bend that easily and sure is a lot cheaper than phospher bronze, which is used mostly because of it's better electrical conductivity than brass. My scratchbuilt working sliding gate is made out of brass rod, 3/64'' posts, with 1/32'' brass rod railings and supports, with a brass I-beam along with 1/16'' brass rod posts for support for the 1/32'' rod that the two 3/64'' pieces of tube slide on, that is soldered to the top of the gate. Works flawlessly and is removeable. The 3/64'' rod posts go into the drilled holes in the Homasote base a 1/2''. All soldered with Silver bearing solder paste, which is 5 times stronger then 60/40 solder and a lot easier to work with.
The mesh material is Aluminum woven metal mesh from Wire Form for flexible armature and sculpting/modeling. I get it in 16''x 20'' sheets, cut with scissors and afixed to fence with ZAP CA.
Take Care!
Frank
I use phosphor bronze for railings and it solders very nicely, but brass solders just as easily too. If your are going to use brass, use hardened brass as Frank suggested. Both phosphor bronze and hardened brass will stay straight when being handled, and they are both easy to bend too. You can bend phosphor bronze a couple of times if you make a mistake, but brass can only be bent once, at least that has been my experience.
I use a big old Weller 100/140 watt gun because it is very fast and it actually reduces the chance of undoing any joints that are close to where you are working. Get the tip hot before you touch the joint. As doctorwayne suggested, cleaning the material before hand will make things a whole lot easier. If you are working really close to an already soldered joint, use a damp paper towel or a pair of small pliers with an elastic on the handles to clamp them closed to keep the existing joint from melting.
These are a couple of simple railings done with phosphor bronze .020" wire:
In both cases I installed the stantions (uprights) into their holes before soldering on the railings. That makes it really easy to line up the railing joints. If you can't do that on the actual model you could make up a wooden jig with the proper spacing and do the same thing.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critterbut brass can only be bent once, at least that has been my experience.
Dave,
I have bent the hardened brass rod on some SW 1200's railings, the same size You used in the bronze, at least four times before it weakened and had to use another piece...but I learn quick from my mistakes...LOL. Now two bends is tops.... Flat jaw needle nose pliers with jaws bent at a 90, makes short work out of taking a bad bend out and redoing it.....especially when Your on Your last bend and screw-up. Been there also..LOL.
BTW: How did You get 200 posts past Me in such a short time.....must have been that Nano episode eh? LOL
zstripeBTW: How did You get 200 posts past Me in such a short time.....must have been that Nano episode eh? LOL
Hi Frank! I guess I talk too much! Honestly, I haven't been keeping track of the post count. I do find that I am making several posts each night, rightly or wrongly.
The Nano Oil tempest seems to have gone back into its teapot. I'm glad. I never did get a response from the company.
Cheers!
Thanks for the info. guys, and the photos. As I suspected it's not the material nor the tool, it's the operator, I need more practice.
Thanks again and regards, Peter
Peter,
One trick I use that makes the job a lot easier is to get a small blob of solder on the tip of the gun. The tip will hold more than enough solder to make a proper joint. The advantage is that I don't need three hands because I no longer have to hold the solder to the joint. One hand for the gun and the other to hold the railing (with pliers preferably). This is easier to do with the larger Weller gun but it can be done with a pencil tip iron too. I always apply rosin flux to both parts of the railing before soldering. If you get too much solder on the joint you can file it down fairly easily.
I use one of these in the link for most all soldering jobs...just change the tip for the job. I also use Silver bearing soldering paste. Use a Q-tip soaked in 91% alcohol to clean the area I want to solder, apply a little paste, touch iron close to paste, paste will start to bubble, then turn silver, take iron away. No need to apply flux, it's in the paste. With practice, You can have a very strong joint that does not need to be dressed or filed. For repetitive joints like a chain link fence, I make a jig make out of pine wood, that all the parts fit into exactly the same always. No need to hold anything, so one hand is always free. If I need to hold a piece down, I just use a flat blade screw driver near the part I'm soldering with My free hand, like in soldering feeders to side of track. I use the chizel tip, put paste on the side of track, put the wire flat against the side of track, hold with flat blade screw driver in the paste and touch iron near paste, it bubbles, turns silver and Your done. It costs more than regular solder...but it sure is a lot easier to use.
The iron I use:
https://www.amazon.com/Mudder-soldering-iron-Electronic-Temperature/dp/B017H69UN2
Thanks for the extra tips.
For making a cyclone fence frame I use clean hardened brass rod and a wooden jig with masking tape to hold the work. I use a quality iron and keep the pointed tip clean and tinned while working. Also use small dia. 62/36/2 silver bearing solder and rosin flux.
My 1st attempts were pretty ugly, but with practice I can get a nice clean joint about half the time, but dressing up with a file the excess solder on the other 50% gets old real fast.
Next time I'll try adding additional solder to the tip instead of feeding the solder to to the work as Dave suggests.
Frank, The soldering paste sounds interesting and sure like that no flux is needed. Is that the stuff sold in syringes and is claimed to work with just the heat of a match or lighter? Do you use a chisel tip when making up your cyclone fence frames?
Again, thanks to all responders for your time and expert advice, regards, Peter
HO-VeloFrank, The soldering paste sounds interesting and sure like that no flux is needed. Is that the stuff sold in syringes and is claimed to work with just the heat of a match or lighter? Do you use a chisel tip when making up your cyclone fence frames
Yeah...that's the stuff..made by Solder-It. I get mine from Walmart on-line...not sold in stores. I buy about 5 at a time....I'm down to 3 since last yr. There is more in the tube than You realize. Free shipping. I use the 1/16 tapered tip for the fence/railing work. I constantly keep the tip clean by running through a damp sponge on My holder.....that is one key to good soldering, a shiny clean tip. Every so often, I'll stick the tip in tip tinner and cleaner from Radio Shack, comes in a little tin. You stick the hot tip in it and it comes out shiny tinned/cleaned:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Solder-It-SP-7-Silver-Bearing-Solder-Paste-7.1-Gram-Syringe/48345692
I have 8 Walthers Mainline passenger that I added the SMD light bar and extra detail to. The light bar is screwed to the roof and there are two contacts on one end that when You put the roof on, the two contacts touch the other two contacts that go to the truck pick-ups. Well they don't always make contact. Some people wired them in......I did not want to do that.....so Me being the genius that I am..LOL. Soldered a Kadee coupler knuckle bronze spring to the two contacts in the roof. Believe it or not it was possible and works like a charm. I put a dab of the solder paste on each contact, with a pair of bent looking tweezers I then stuck the spring in the paste and touched the hot iron to it and low and behold it worked......no need to hold the spring, the paste did it. I did all 8 cars that way and none have a problem.
I have a lot of patience......but I had to earn it!
EDIT: A couple of pic's of the tiny springs in the first pic' and the two tabs they rest on in the car contacts:
Frank:
That's a neat use for the Kadee springs! I have a bunch of Walthers passenger cars that will eventually get lighting so I will keep your suggestion in mind.
hon30critter zstripe BTW: How did You get 200 posts past Me in such a short time.....must have been that Nano episode eh? LOL Hi Frank! I guess I talk too much! Honestly, I haven't been keeping track of the post count. I do find that I am making several posts each night, rightly or wrongly.
zstripe BTW: How did You get 200 posts past Me in such a short time.....must have been that Nano episode eh? LOL
I might add that there is a direct coorelation between post count and genius.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainI might add that there is a direct coorelation between post count and genius.
Is that a positive correlation or a negative one?!?