I dipped in and out of the model train hobby over the years. I plan on re-entering and I am doing my research, one area that I find difficult are couplers. What makes one type different than others and what approach should I use to decide which is best for me. I intend on building an HO layout.
Thank you.
Hi Jerry, and welcome to the forums.
In regard to the couplers, The most popular answer you will get on this are the KADEE Products and they have couplers for every situation. You should go to their website and check them out.
Having said that, I would like to say they are a nessesity if you are planning on running long trains, say over 15 cars on up. However if your trains will be under that length you should have no trouble with EZ-mate or McHenrys and they all mate together nicely. The problem seems to be with the longer trains the draw-bar pull is greater and the EZ-m and McH. seem to flex and let go (train breaks apart. If on an incline, part of your train will be going the wrong way or just left sitting on the main.)
Be sure to stop by Jeffrey's Trackside Diner where we share all kinds of stories about our layouts, our lives, etc. as long as it does NOT get into touchy subjects like politics or religion or gun issues. That will keep our Moderators happy. But we do have a good time there. Lots stop in on a regular basis and other come in very quitely and sit in a corner booth just listening to the jabber until something really perks their interest and then they chime in.
We would enjoy hearing more about your ideas so stop in and have a cup of Joe before you go to the other forums.
Also alot of the questions you will have will have been throughly discussed previously and you can search these titles out either on the black bar above or in the search the community on the right hand side of the page.
Happy Railroading,
Johnboy out.........................for now
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
I use ONLY Kadee couplers. One of the problems I've had with clones is with the "gladhand". They don't seem to have the same metal used in them so they aren't pulled over to the side as strongly when using Kadee's Magnematic uncouplers. Also, some of the knuckle springs are plastic whiskers that keep the knuckle closed lose their tension. Kadee probably has any coupler you'd ever need. Their conversion chart also allows you to use the correct coupler for the most popular manufacturers.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Jerry,Welcome to the forums.
Now,without sounding harsh I will say the best couplers to use is Kadee and Walthers Protomax 2 since both brands are metal with brass knuckle springs and will work flawlessly.
Those cheaper plastic couplers can cause a lot of unnecessary grief.
I highly recommend a KaDee coupler height gauge for checking coupler and trip pin height and NMRA gauge to check for proper wheel gauge.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The main differences in couplers.1. Does it need a centering spring or does it have whisker centering springs molded on?2. Does it have a coil spring to keep the coupler closed or does it have the finger type which fail? 3. Is it metal or plastic? Is it made with both?4. How long is the shank?5. Is the shank centered or offset to raise or lower it’s height?
Most new cars come equipped with good “Kadee compatible” couplers which you don’t need to replace until they fail which isn’t that often. Only old cars from last century which came with NMRA Hornhook couplers need to be replaced before they can be put into operation. Each different railroad car needs a different coupler just like your personal automobile needs different parts than my old Camaro. Finding the right coupler is half the fun. I keep a supply of several different couplers to choose from. Kadee #5, #22, #26, #27 #148The most popular coupler is Kadee #5. It fits Athearn models which came in the Blue Box. The popular replacement for failed OEM Kadee compatible couplers is #148 which has built in whisker springs to keep it centered.
I assume you are talking about HO. Other scales, N, S, O, have different coupler makers. From the mid 1950's to the late 1990's HO used two different and incompatable couplers. Manufacturers equipped all product with the NMRA X2f coupler because it was in the public domain and cheap to make. Enthusiasts, of which there were many, favored the Kadee coupler since it looked better and remote uncoupling really did work. Toward the end of the 1990's Kadee's patents finally expired and other manufacturers started making clones of the Kadee couplers. The clones would intermate, uncouple properly and were nearly as cheap to make as the old X2f coupler. By 2000 most manufacturers were shipping rolling stock equipped with Kadee clone couplers. HO rolling stock lasts forever and so there is a lot of older stuff equipped with X2f couplers kicking around at train shows, but all new product comes with Kadee clone couplers today.
Was I starting out this year, I would go with Kadee couplers. The clone couplers that come installed are good enough, I don't bother to change them out unless they break. When replacing broken couplers or ancient X2f couplers. I buy genuine Kadee couplers for $2 a pair. When offered for sale, (seldom) the clones are priced the same, so why not buy the best, since it doesn't cost any more? Kadee makes a zillion different styles to fit any piece of rolling stock ever produced. They all intermate and work together. Most freight cars take a #5 Kadee or the whisker spring equivalent #148. Locomotives and passenger cars take all sorts of couplers. Kadee publishes a what-fits-what list, see their website or the Walthers big book. Although it is possible to warp a #5 Kadee into anything, you can save yourself a lot of filing, hacking, and cussing by using the Kadee recommended coupler.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Jerry M one area that I find difficult are couplers. What makes one type different than others and what approach should I use to decide which is best for me Thank you.
one area that I find difficult are couplers. What makes one type different than others and what approach should I use to decide which is best for me
As you have seen already, most people advocate using Kadee knuckle couplers - mainly because they are very good quality and very reliable and because they are metal, they rarely break. Many companies use inferior plastic knuckle couplers, which do work. Some better than others.
For all practical purposes, horn hook couplers are not compatible with knuckle couplers. You can leave the plastic knuckle couplers on cars that came with them, but you may find over time they have issues. Eventually you will probably find that Kadee brand couplers are the best way to go.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
dstarr Other scales, N, S, O, have different coupler makers.
Kadee makes S and O scale couplers. They make 1 S scale coupler in 2 different colors and several O scale couplers. Micro-Trains split off from Kadee several years ago and makes N scale couplers.
MTH (which bought the S Helper Service line) catalogs the SHS S scale coupler, but I haven't seen any.
Atlas has an O scale coupler for it's 2 rail products, but I haven't seen these available separately.
N scale has several other coupler manufacturers
There are several European makers of O scale, but I don't know that any of their couplers are in use on American trains.
Paul
IRONROOSTER dstarr Other scales, N, S, O, have different coupler makers. Kadee makes S and O scale couplers. They make 1 S scale coupler in 2 different colors and several O scale couplers. Micro-Trains split off from Kadee several years ago and makes N scale couplers.
The OP stated in his original post he intends to build an HO layout.
Hello all,
One thing I have not seen mentioned- -that has been discussed in other threads regarding couplers, is body versus truck mount.
I am using 1970's-'80's vintage Tyco hoppers. These originally came with Hook & Horn truck mounted couplers; AKA: Talgo.
At first I simply upgraded the Talgo trucks with Kadee adapters. I soon realized that this solution, although easy and relatively cheap, was unreliable.
I converted the truck mounted couplers to body mounted. This required drilling and tapping the frames to accept a 2/56 screw to mount the couplers and the upgraded trucks.
At first I used the sprung Kadee trucks but after some experience and consulting with others on this forum I decided to "lock-out" the springs with CA (Super Glue).
At a local train show I spoke with the folks at Kadee and they explained how the HGC trucks differed from the sprung type.
Round 3: I am now in the process of converting the remaining cars to HGC type.
The parts; couplers, draft boxes and trucks for these projects are only a small percentage of the cost.
The tools required; although a one time purchase, to make these conversions have been the major cost.
A rotary tool and stand (Dremel Work Station), drill bits, taps, jewelers screwdrivers, 2/56 screws, coupler height gage and shims for both trucks and draft boxes!
If you don't need to convert these vintage cars to modern standards you might consider purchasing modern rolling stock rather than converting the vintage cars.
Also, the locomotives will need to be converted to knuckle couplers.
I have done this conversion on several locomotives and it can be time consuming and expensive, especially if converting from truck mounted to body mounted.
One final option is to convert one end of a car or locomotive to be a transition; Hook & Horn on one end and knuckle on the other.
This will allow you to run Hook & Horn with knuckle couplers.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Jerry M,
To The Forums.....
Since You decided You would like Your layout in HO scale....here is a link to Kadee coupler conversion chart and more, listing just about every MFG'er of HO scale rolling stock that will show You what coupler #number to use:
https://kadee.com/conv/hocc.htm
Take Care!
Frank
In general I have found that Kadee 148 whisker coupler works well on about 90% of my rolling stock with the other 10% getting a more specialized Kadee (short shank under shank over shank etc).
That's enough that I buy them in bulk and typically bring the car into the "shop" when the original coupler fails. I cannot be bothered with the centering spring on the number 5.
Kadee also makes the number 158 coupler which has a smaller supposedly more protypical head but I have yet to try it.
Joe Staten Island West
The #148 are excellent couplers, however the traditional #5 still has an advantage. If you look at the coupler pocket sprint it's different on the left and right. That's because it has a slightly different bending resistence in the uncoupling direction. So it works slightly better over uncoupling magnets.
Don
I've used #5s for years and never noticed the difference in the spring. It's a good thing to know. Thanks.
Joe
DigitalGriffin The #148 are excellent couplers, however the traditional #5 still has an advantage. If you look at the coupler pocket sprint it's different on the left and right. That's because it has a slightly different bending resistence in the uncoupling direction. So it works slightly better over uncoupling magnets.
That has been pointed out but I've found it makes little if any difference. Which leads me to the other advantage of the versions with the bronze spring, if the copuler is low, flipping it so the bronze spring is underneath, it helps raise it up a bit effectively behaving as a shim. Between the spring being underneath and a fiber washer in the bolster, it's often enough to level the coupler to be same as the height gauge.
riogrande5761 IRONROOSTER dstarr Other scales, N, S, O, have different coupler makers. Kadee makes S and O scale couplers. They make 1 S scale coupler in 2 different colors and several O scale couplers. Micro-Trains split off from Kadee several years ago and makes N scale couplers. The OP stated in his original post he intends to build an HO layout.
The thread is titled "Couplers"
Hi, and welcome to the Forum and back into the hobby..........
As most previously indicated, there are a lot of couplers out there that will work, but the KaDees are the best. I've been in HO since 1960 and tried various others, and sooner or later they got replaced by KDs. You will not regret using them.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
IRONROOSTER riogrande5761 IRONROOSTER dstarr Other scales, N, S, O, have different coupler makers. Kadee makes S and O scale couplers. They make 1 S scale coupler in 2 different colors and several O scale couplers. Micro-Trains split off from Kadee several years ago and makes N scale couplers. The OP stated in his original post he intends to build an HO layout. The thread is titled "Couplers" Paul
Yes, and in the original post he stated the scale is HO, so thats what he is seeking assistance with evidently, and not other scales.
Jerry M
Lot of good advice here. I echo everyones recommendation on Kadee. One thing not mentioned is the Kadee website. It is really helpful. It has a list of just about every manufature and the recommended Kadee coupler for that manufacture ! I would also as recommended by others that you purchase a knuckler gauge and the NMRA HO gauge.
I want to also Echo Johnboy invite. Please feel free to join us in Jeffries Diner. I will buy the second cup of Joe. Hope to see you there.
YGW
I do not think there is a reply all ability, if I knew it I would use it to thank everyone who responded to my questions. Now I know why so many people are into this hobby !
EVERY coupler on the Stratton and Gillette Railroad is a Kadee. I use 20 series couplers on cars where the coupler mounting pockets and frame are metal, like BLI hopper cars and brass models. 20 series couplers are also handy if the head needs to be offset high or low for height corrections. The 20 series couplers do not conduct electricity.
.
I use either #5 everywhere else, or #148 whisker couplers in the Kadee box. If possible, always use one of Kadee's boxes to mount the coupler.
All the other coupler manufacurers have always let me down.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
dstarr I assume you are talking about HO. Other scales, N, S, O, have different coupler makers. From the mid 1950's to the late 1990's HO used two different and incompatable couplers. Manufacturers equipped all product with the NMRA X2f coupler because it was in the public domain and cheap to make. Enthusiasts, of which there were many, favored the Kadee coupler since it looked better and remote uncoupling really did work. Toward the end of the 1990's Kadee's patents finally expired and other manufacturers started making clones of the Kadee couplers. The clones would intermate, uncouple properly and were nearly as cheap to make as the old X2f coupler. By 2000 most manufacturers were shipping rolling stock equipped with Kadee clone couplers. HO rolling stock lasts forever and so there is a lot of older stuff equipped with X2f couplers kicking around at train shows, but all new product comes with Kadee clone couplers today. Was I starting out this year, I would go with Kadee couplers. The clone couplers that come installed are good enough, I don't bother to change them out unless they break. When replacing broken couplers or ancient X2f couplers. I buy genuine Kadee couplers for $2 a pair. When offered for sale, (seldom) the clones are priced the same, so why not buy the best, since it doesn't cost any more? Kadee makes a zillion different styles to fit any piece of rolling stock ever produced. They all intermate and work together. Most freight cars take a #5 Kadee or the whisker spring equivalent #148. Locomotives and passenger cars take all sorts of couplers. Kadee publishes a what-fits-what list, see their website or the Walthers big book. Although it is possible to warp a #5 Kadee into anything, you can save yourself a lot of filing, hacking, and cussing by using the Kadee recommended coupler.
A little clarification on terminology here: the horn hook couplers (which used to come with the older equipment, as stated above), are also called NMRA (which I don't think the NMRA, National Model Railroad Association, ever made these couplers a recommended practice item); they are also called x2f couplers. So, horn hook, NMRA coupler and x2f are one and the same. If the OP is relatively new to the hobby, that may have been a point of confusion. At any rate, they are not compatible with any of the knuckle couplers that are mentioned in this thread.
I use these, because they look awesome, and operate as close to the real thing as you can get in HO:
http://www.sergentengineering.com/
BMMECNYC I use these, because they look awesome, and operate as close to the real thing as you can get in HO: http://www.sergentengineering.com/
These are nice. You have to change out your entire collection to use them but they are more realistic than the Kadee style couplers.