Differences Between Athearn Diesel RTR and Genesis

[peahrens]

I'm interested in the recent (2015/2016) DC Athearn GP50s, either of which I would convert to LokSound Select decoder with speakers. 

I found a 2005 thread that discusses RTR to Genesis differences but do not know if any important details have changed.

a) Are the drive trains now the same? If not, I would probably avoid the RTR.

b) I gather there are visible differences like lack of MU hoses, bell, window shades,active ditch lighting, see through fans on the RTR.  But the handrails look sufficiently thin to not bother me.

c) The incandescent lights (both cases) are a non-issue as I would change to LEDs. 

d) Anything else to consider?

Any advice is most welcome.  Thanks in advance.

[ggnlars]

I believe the major differences are in the shell and corresponding details.  Both drives have hex drive dog bones.  I think the Genesis motor is different than the RTR motor.  They are both very current friendly.  They are both very quiet.  I would rate the Genesis motors to be average on performance where the RTR motors are not.  From the drive performance, I would lean to the Genesis model.  

[peahrens]

I did not know enough to ask the question correctly.  The GP50s I'm looking at are a Genesis and a Athearn Roundhouse (not RTR).  Now I'm totally confused.  Are there three current drive trains?  Are the Roundhouse diesel body toolings from Roundhouse or prior Athearns? 

It seems that most Geeps are now Roundhouse and most SDs are RTR.  I know what a Genesis is but the other two have me confused.

[ggnlars]

I believe the RTR line is being changed to Roundhouse.  These are the last six months or so.  You can still find new RTR line stuff out there.  The RTR drives have evolved from basically blue box drive to near Genesis drives over the RTR product life span.  The most recent are consistent with the newer Roundhouse line. However anticipate these to evolve as time goes by.

[Trainman440]

Like what Larry said, the only major difference is the motor. The genesis motor is a hair(from my experience) better than the RTR motor. IMHO, they both sound extremely quiet. 

Charles

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

I don't know the specifics of the GP50, but understand this, Athearn found themselves with three different detail/performance levels of product-Genesis, early RTR, based on original BLUE BOX, and newer, improved RTR, developed or dramaticly improved from the older BLUE BOX.

So, to clarify things for the consumer, older BLUE BOX designs are becoming ROUNDHOUSE, newer, better RTR will stay RTR, GENESIS remains the same.

Sheldon 

[peahrens]

Thanks, everyone.  That helps a lot.  Seems like I just need to decide basis the apparent detail differences and the slight motor difference.

Just to round out my curiosity, are any of the Roundhouse former MDC Roundhouse tooling or are these all Athearn designs, just using the Roundhouse names as Athearn acquired the name (and maybe freight car designs).  And are the three RTR steamers old Athearn or Roundhouse designs?

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

peahrens

Thanks, everyone.  That helps a lot.  Seems like I just need to decide basis the apparent detail differences and the slight motor difference.

Just to round out my curiosity, are any of the Roundhouse former MDC Roundhouse tooling or are these all Athearn designs, just using the Roundhouse names as Athearn acquired the name (and maybe freight car designs).  And are the three RTR steamers old Athearn or Roundhouse designs?

 

Newer, better originally Roundhouse tooling is actually mostly in the RTR line. Most of the new reformed Roundhouse line is former Blue Box items. But this is an item by item thing, based on the detail and accuracy of each product.

The Athearn line in total still contains many pre merger Roundhouse items.

But, Roundhouse never gad many locos, so we are mainly talking rolling stock.

Sheldon 

[Kyle]

Athearn has been upgrading their products which creates some confusion.  They recently reorganized their product lines about a year or so ago.  Before this, the roundhouse line was dead and the RTR line was a mix of quality.

Currently:

Genesis (dark blue box)- top of the line high quality with tons of details, and smoothest motors.

RTR (orange logo)- step below genesis, but still has good amount of detail, MU cables, seperatey applied fans, wire grab irons, roadname specific detail.  I don't think any have ditch lights but most locomotives in line made before ditch lights. They run well, are DCC ready and some models come with DCC.

Roundhouse- these are mostly older RTR models, no MU cables, grab irons, etc.  An updated blue box. Great starter locomotives or to fill a roster.  Pass 2 foot test look good on layout. Run well, though will require a bit of work to convert to DCC (isolate motor, remove metal strip)

Now, always research the particular locomotive you are buying if online.  There are still many "older" RTR that are new.  The RTR logo was switch from yellow to orange, but the ones with the yellow logo vary in quality.  The ones that say they are DCC Quick-Plug Equipped are the higher detailed locomotives.  They are more like a slightly cheaper genesis, than a RTR.  They are better than some of the old yellow box genesis.  The older RTR had solid metal frames with a shell that simply snaps on (the only screws on the bottom are for the motor).  They don't have a lot of detail, but the paint looks good and they run great.  However, they have the metal strip that connects ones side of the trucks to the motor, and the other side runs through the frame.  Athearn does sell motor isolation mounts, but you will have to solder the decoder wires.  Also they have the "flaming cab" light bulb, so there is a bit of work on the lights. They are essential upgraded blueboxes.

 

For some RTR models Athearn offers an genesis motor upgrade.  Supposedly it offers smoother control in DCC, but I have no experience with it.

The RTR and Genesis lines don't really overlap.  There  are a few locomotives available  in the roundhouse and the genesis line, like the GP40-2, but the roundhouse versions are mostly starter sets level of detail, or a roster filler on a big layout.  Personally I would go with what locomotive you, versus worrying about the lines.

 

 

For the GP50 (which is offered in all three lines), I would choose based off of what your using this locomotive for.  If you are buying one or two and are going to display them, or run them close to you, then the genesis might be worth the money.  If you are going to add them to your fleet and run them on your layout, then the RTR will be the more practical and economic option (you can't see the missing details from a few feet away). 

Note: be careful about when the model was made and what type it is.  Older models like some of the genesis yellow boxes and some older RTR don't have the level of details as the new ones.

[peahrens]

Thanks for the thorough explanations.  It will help me as I consider locos for my fleet.  Since I had a modelling gap from 1980 to 2012, I don't know the evolution of lines like Athearn.  I have figured out the LifeLike Proto 1000/2000 to Walthers transition for the most part, an important element in finding quite a few nice P1K/P2K candidates for conversion to DCC with my UP livery preference.

I assumed (uh-oh) that any Roundhouse DC diesel announced lately (2015/2016) would be DCC ready.  But looking at the listings for a few, I find that the April 2015 announced Roundhouse GP38-2 and GP-50 are noted as DCC "Ready" (I presume at least an isolated motor, if not a decoder plug), whereas a May 2016 announced F7 is DCC "No".  Seems strange (unless a typo) unless the GPs chassis have been upgraded to isolated motor but not yet the F models.

Since I would add about $95 with Select, speakers and LEDs, I think I'll lean towards the Genesis GP50, which I would likely consist with my Genesis GP9 and P2K GP30 (all with Select decoders).  I'll also look for other candidates than the GP50 to combine with eh GP9/GP30.

[Kyle]

I believe none of the roundhouse stuff is equipped with a DCC plug, which was a major reason for Athearn reorganizing the product lines.  The roundhouse products are metal frames with the metal strip, like the old blue boxes.  They are also sold with the train sets.  The F unit might have a slightly different frame, though I doubt they added wires GPs to make them DCC ready.

The genesis line is probably the closest to the Proto 2000, and are definitely the best detailed of the Athearn line.  However, the RTRs have really improved so there is not a huge difference.  If possible, I would suggest going to a hobby shop to see the models in person.  It also gives you the chance to inspect the model you are purchasing since Athearn has some minor quality control issues appearence wise.

[riogrande5761]

ggnlars

I believe the RTR line is being changed to Roundhouse.

Only limited number of blue box heritiage Athearn loco's appear to have been migrated to Roundhouse; otherwise the RTR line has continued to be expanded.  A quick look at Athearns site shows some six diesels which were in the RTR line and are of blue box heritiage now in the Roundhouse product line:

SW7
F7A/B (originally Globe)
GP38-2
GP40-2
GP50
GP60

These are the last six months or so.  You can still find new RTR line stuff out there.

You could say that.  The RTR line of loco's currently shows 20 diesels and has been expanded in the past year with the new SD38 and SD39, which are highly detailed (near Genesis) loco's.

The RTR drives have evolved from basically blue box drive to near Genesis drives over the RTR product life span.

The drives have improved some but are still not Genesis quality.  I have quite a few RTR SD45's and tunnel motors and motor consistancy varies from quiet and smooth to barely acceptable and with a substantial hum.  Athearn has been overing a re-motor kit for the past couple years to upgrade some RTR loco's to Genesis motor quality, especially for DCC and sound use.

 Athearn branding has been somewhat confusing over the past 10-15 years, especially with the RTR line which ranged from the very crude, long-in-the-tooth F7 on one end to the very detailed SD45T-2 on the other end.  Athearn has been wisely rebranding the "lower end" HO diesels to Roundhouse to separate the older, basic engines from the mid-high level diesels.  The blue box GP38-2,40-2/50/60 line have decent shells but very little detail and no DCC ready plug, so moving them to Roundhouse makes total sense.  I'm not sure why the GP35 has not been moved over because it is of similar status, being of Rail Power Products heritage and low detail IMO belongs in the Roundhouse line.

The GP60 and SD45 are also of RPP heritage and some may argue they are lacking due to the older tooling, some of which still remains on the body (at least the long hood of the SD45).