if you were going to buy a new HO big boy which one would you buy,
MTH, Athearn, BLI, somebody else?
Also the reason you would buy, i.e. Sound, smoothnes, price, detail, etc.
To the best of my knowledge, BLI and MTH have some kind of wonky proprietary DCC systems. Athearn seems to be more 'standard'.
SouthPenn To the best of my knowledge, BLI and MTH have some kind of wonky proprietary DCC systems. Athearn seems to be more 'standard'.
That´s only partially correct.
MTH has its own, bespoke DCS control sytem, but the DCS decoders are able to "understand" DCC as well, but with limited functionality.
BLI has straight forward DCC onboard or can easily be outfitted with a decoder (plug & play).
To the OP:
There is a lot of personal liking involved in the decision which brand to buy. Each of the different brands has its benefits and disadvantages. Best advice is to go to your LHS and have a look at whatever brand he has available.
You can also look at the MR product reviews to get an idea!
I would never buy a Big Boy. However, if I HAD to chose one?...it would be Trix. Detailing, sound (Loksound), and smooth-as-glass operation. Yep - no hesitation on that decision.
It's not "new" though. Came out in 2005 - about the same time they released their 2-8-2 Mike. I have both Trix NYC Mikes and they are gorgeous.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
The only Big Boy that interests me is 4014. Last time I looked, when she came through Las Vegas, she was sporting an ALCO builder's plate.
When I need sixteen drivers I doublehead 2-8-2s.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I have yet to read a negative review of the Athearn Genesis Big Boy or that of Rivarossi/Hornby. BLI's Paragon version were generally very good, and they will probably bring to market a Paragon 3 version some time before Christmas. The last run I know of by MTH had lots of complaints on other forums. That was around 2011/2012 or so.
Hi,
I have Trix and Athearn Big Boys. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Trix: the best drivetrain, all brass gears, I never had (and probably never will) a locomotive that is better designed (especially inside) than this model. It is easy to maintain because it is very clever design, easy to disassemble. Superb runner (large Maxon motor), very heavy (all die cast). Very good detail level. Best example of excellent German engineering, it will last longer then me, that is for sure.
Not cheap, but price level is well deserved.
Disadvantage: locomotive wheels are not to scale (they are too small). This is due to stupid Marklin policy (owner of Trix) that all locomotives must be able to go thru smallest radius they have (360 mm). For longer trains, a coupler (NEM 362 coupler socket) between tender and locomotive and on tender end has to be locked (with small plastic insert, for example), because if train is really heavy, it is possible that coupler is pulled out of coupler socket. This is easy to accomplish, so I would not regard this as a problem, but it must be kept in mind.
Athearn: wheels are of correct size, detail level on the level of Trix or maybe little higher, but nothing dramatic. Very good - excellent drivetrain. Ligher than Trix (plastic), so maybe for longer trains, a wheel set with traction tires is required (mine came with such wheel set, I ordered one without).
I enjoy in both locomotives. Both will, with appropriate decoder, run great. Both had ugly yellow front/rear lights which had to be changed (not an easy task for front light for both models). Also, both sounded badly with factory installed sound decoders (not a matter of a decoder but speaker/baffle selection/design).
In both models I have done extensive work to install bigger speaker in tender (Visaton 32 mm). As Athearn came with Tsunami, I left it as is. In Trix, I installed Wow instead of old ESU 3.5. Now both sound very well, but as expected, Wow has superior motor control. In fact, Trix Big Boy can run so slowly in SS1 that it is barely visible it moves. Transition between speed steps is absolutely fluid/smooth, so I think, Wow sound decoder and Trix Big Boy are a perfect match.
Below is a link to three short videos of my Trix with TCS Wow sound decoder. I uploaded second video because I think sound is better recorded then in first video. First was done with photo camera and second with mobile phone, both were made by my two friends (second video is shaky, my (second) friend does not have much experience with videos. I want to take a video with proper video camera myself when I catch some time.
Third one was done by another mobile phone (horrible microphone, therefore no sound with it) – but slow speed performance is visible.
I have intention to post here more details how new speaker was installed in Trix Big Boy, and as full enclosed baffle, whole tender shell was used (TCS decoder is installed in locomotive), hopefully this month.
Btw, room in the background (5,5 x 3,4 m) will be used for layout ONLY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF39zpk9VPA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwop-d_qDfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z709x1KZjZU
Hrvoje
David,
if you are intrerested in a Trix Big Boy, check Ebay! There is a rather promising listing ending in a day!
Trix Big Boy
I would like to thank everybody who responded. Even though I have not made up my mind yet your thoughts and suggestions will make it easier for me.
David - it looks as if you could snatch that Trix Big Boy for very little money. It´s really worth considering this offer, as you can´t go wrong with a Trix Big Boy!
Sir Madog David - it looks as if you could snatch that Trix Big Boy for very little money. It´s really worth considering this offer, as you can´t go wrong with a Trix Big Boy!
I have both the Athearn Genesis Big Boy with Tsunami sound and a Rivarossi with a Tsunami that I installed myself (with a High Bass speaker in the tender). Both run very good but I actually don't like the Athearn factory decoder because of the 'machine gun' sound at higher speeds. The Rivarossi sounds better but lacks the detail of the Athearn. I would consider replacing the Athearn one with a Lok Sound or Wow decoder in the future. Also, the Athearn has given me problems with the traction tires coming off (also happens with my Athearn Challenger?) and may replace them with non traction drivers. Just my thoughts on this locomotive. If I were to do this over I would consider the Trix over both of these.
BTW, I installed warm white 12 vdc LED's in the Rivarossi loco and tender and they look great. See photo.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
If you are interested in new
BLI. The new ones will have paragon 3 which means you can send the sound to a subwoofer to get a big steam engine sound. HOWEVER I was never a big fan of BLI's stacato sounding steam pistons.
If you want the best (used)
Go brass or Trix
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I recently purchased a new Athearn Genesis BigBoy and I am very disappointed with it. First I was not impressed with the sound. The chuff sounds like a horse galloping. Next, I purchased two smoke generators and installed them per the instructions. neither of the smoke generators produced any smoke. The generators were bench checked and were functioning but would not work when installed in the locomotive. I checked with an Athearn tech and he said that customers who recently purchase the new BigBoy were having the same issues and it was because the generators were not being pushed all the way down into the stacks. After making certain the generators were installed correctly they still did not produce any smoke. I sent te locomotive basck to Athearn and subsequently received a call from the tech. He told me that the smoke generators would have to be hard wired into the locomotive in order to get them to work and it would cost a total of $50 to do the workand send it back to me. I reluctantlly had them do the work and when I got it back only one of te smoke units produced any smoke. It produced a lot of smoke but not in sinc with any chuff. Just steady smoke from one unit. There is no way to turn the smoke units off either by a switch on the engine or a function key. Now it is back to Athearn for the second time. Since I have had this locomotive (about 6 months) it has been on the track twice for about 5 minutes. I have tried to contact Athearn to see if they have been able to repair it but all my emails would not go through to the repair tech. Very frustrating! I would not recommend purchasing the new Big Boy.
Someday we may have more brands of Big Boys than the number of Big Boys that were built (25).
I have a 30+ year old DC Rivarossi. Still runs although with the oversized flanges Rivarossi used back then, it bounces around on my code 83 track. Still, I can't bring myself to parting with it. Nor any of my two Northerns and two Challengers.
Bob,
if both locomotives have the same decoder (Tsunami), than why you would replace the one in Athearn Big Boy? If the Athearn BB sounds like "machine gun" at higher speeds, than very probably you need to set some CV's responsible for DDE feature. I played a lot with those CV's (177 - 188), and noticed that you can change the sound behavior considerably with those CV's (among other, when locomotive is at higher speed, chuffing sound quiets down and only silent "chi-chi" is heard). The default values of these (and other) CV's for Tsunami are not providing the maximum in sound which is possible to get from Tsunami.
Also, maybe the chuffing rate has to be set more precisely, did you check that (Auto Chuff Rate, CV 116)?
Btw, Athearn Big Boy has bad speaker selection from factory (at least mine from 2010), so sound of this locomotive would definetly gain if those two tiny speakers are changed (as in Rivarossi Big Boy).
Regards,
I heard the Athearn big boy and the chuff is horrible, no cv adjustment can improve that chuff!
Nice engine,but that chuff turns it into a looser for me.
Even though that Trix loco did sell at a low price and I was thinking of of bidding on it but it's history of being in a fire gave me pause.
Even though it was stated by the seller that only the box was harmed in the fire, but what about the heat that was involved.
Plus when I asked the seller several questions he admitted that he was not a model railroader and could not test the locomotive.
I decided not to bid on it.
Athearn Genesis Big Boy and forget all the rest!
Note: I'm normally labeled as being an "Athearn Hater" on other forums like the atlasrescueforum because I have been unhappy with the poor paint masking, poor handrails, excessive sloppy glue, and other QA/QC issues with all Athearn diesels.
But the Genesis steam has been consistently much the opposite (excepting the initial 2-8-2's years ago)! I owned the Genesis weathered Big Boy a couple years back, and should have kept it. It was one of the smoothest, quietest running HO steamers I've ever owned. It was very tolerant of a little track dirt (I routinely apply Atlas Conductalube or other conductive lubricants to the track to help keep rails clean).
The BLI steamers, pretty much all of them, including the brand new brass hybrid Great Northern 4-8-4, which I also have, are relatively intolerant of any track dirt whether in DC or DCC operation. When the tender wheels get a little dirty, which doesn't necessarily take very long, the sound will start cutting out and/or they can even begin to run erratically.
The MTH 4-6-6-4, which I've also owned, was a great steam engine--it ran well; the lights worked great, and it smoked extremely well (better than all BLI engines I've ever seen). It does everything MTH says it will do, and well...but not everybody cares for the proprietary DCS/somewhat limited DCC electronics in the MTH steamers.
The BLI 4-8-8-4 was released as a brass hybrid, if I'm correct, and is difficult to find now--and very expensive. The BLI Y-6B 2-8-8-2 is indeed a great running engine, but does not smoke quite as well as the MTH steamers do.
The recently introduced BLI PRR H10s 2-8-0 is a great running little engine that seems to be more tolerant of dirty track than any of the other BLI steamers I've ever tried. I have two of the 2-8-0's and both run very well.
Sound I can do without, and smoke I don't need, but my son prefers both, so I will buy engines that have sound and smoke, but I tend to turn off the smoke once the initial manufacturer's installed fluid runs low. That said--if it's smoke you want--MTH is the smoke champion, in general.
Of all the steam engines I've owned, which have included dozens of brass models through the years as well, the Athearn Genesis Big Boy was just simply one of the most fun to run on the layout. I just thought the weathering was a little "too heavy" for a typically well-maintained UP engine, and that was partly why I sold it. Now they cost more than twice as much money...I should have kept it.
I'm now considering one of the early version UP Challengers just announced by Athearn.
Good luck whatever you decide.
Best wishes--
John Mock
Spalato68 Bob, if both locomotives have the same decoder (Tsunami), than why you would replace the one in Athearn Big Boy? If the Athearn BB sounds like "machine gun" at higher speeds, than very probably you need to set some CV's responsible for DDE feature. I played a lot with those CV's (177 - 188), and noticed that you can change the sound behavior considerably with those CV's (among other, when locomotive is at higher speed, chuffing sound quiets down and only silent "chi-chi" is heard). The default values of these (and other) CV's for Tsunami are not providing the maximum in sound which is possible to get from Tsunami. Also, maybe the chuffing rate has to be set more precisely, did you check that (Auto Chuff Rate, CV 116)? Btw, Athearn Big Boy has bad speaker selection from factory (at least mine from 2010), so sound of this locomotive would definetly gain if those two tiny speakers are changed (as in Rivarossi Big Boy). Regards, Hrvoje
I don't think (know for sure?) that the Athearn factory Tsunami is the same as the TS1000 Soundtrax Tsunami that I installed in the Rivarossi. I do know the speaker in the Riv is very good. I tried playing with the CV's on both locos when first running them but that has been a while ago, so I may have to go back and work with them some more. It is just a little dissapointing when you spend $400 for a new loco and the sounds are not very good. I don't like the whistle on the Athearn one either but there wasn't any choice on that decoder as there was on the TS1000. I know the prototype whistle is what Athearn has but it is very weak.
Unfortunately the Rivarossi has stopped running (no response at all) and I haven't gotten into what the problem is yet, so I can't do anything more with that one. The Athearn Genesis has issues with the traction tires coming off so I don't run it much at all, until I either replace the drivers with non-traction ones or find a way to keep the tires on. The traction tires on my Rivarossi and other steamers have never given me a problem?
I may try the BLI version as I have had very good luck with their steam engines, currently have 3, and no issues whatsoever.
I think, that decoder that is delivered with Athearn Big Boy is practically the same as Tsunami. The difference is that factory installed decoder does not offer a CAM option, and (maybe), not so many whistle selections as Tsunami.
But, if you kept the original loudspeakers in Athearn Big Boy, then I think this is the reason why sound is so inferior compared to Rivarossi that has better speaker (and baffle probably?).
Unfortunately I have not made any photo of my installation of new speaker in Athearn Big Boy, but I have made some photos of new speaker that I have installed in Trix Big Boy (I used for both locomotives the same speaker).
In Athearn Big Boy, I used only upper part of tender shell as baffle, because I left decoder as installed in factory. This is not so complicated to do.
In Trix, I installed decoder in locomotive, so I used the whole tender shell as baffle. This installation was much more complicated because I had to use a small plastic pipe (old pen) to make baffle go around post used to hold the tender shell on tender chassis, and to make it air tight. For this installation, I used also a Sound Deadening Sheet (http://www.ebay.de/itm/251336536962?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649) to kill vibrations as much as possible.
New speaker, above:
Tender baffle, inside:
Completed baffle, from below:
I used AC glue and glue for styrene to glue all baffle parts together, but to be 100% sure it is airtight, I used also self adhesive strip (used to seal kitchen sink, http://www.tkk.si/en/products/products-by-technical-characteristics/we-mount-and-seal/tekadom/tekadom-tekastrip).
But that is only half of the work. Tsunami steam decoder offers a lot of tweaking possibilities, but it can be a complicated to achieve what someone wants to achieve.
I managed to get a deep chuff during acceleration, then quieter chuffing for cruising, and silent chi - chi sound for very high speed. Also, if throttle is turned to a zero position, chuffing is practically inaudiable. I did not had a chance to see real steam locomotives running (except when was a very small kid), so my only source are videos (among other, Pentrex Big Boy Collection). I noticed that when at high speed, almost nothing is heard, just very quiet hiss and/or "chi-chi" sound...but not a loud "machine gun" sound.
I also noticed that at Tsunami, sound change depends not only on sound related CV's, but also on BEMF (how much BEMF is used to control the motor). If CV 212 (and other BEMF related variables) are not set to a high values, sound "change" is better. In fact, a compromise is required if you want great difference in sound depending on locomotive speed and motor load, and motor control.
Unfortunately I do not have a layout yet, so it is not easy to make a nice video of what I have done. But I will try to make one, at least on one long straight track on the room floor.
Regardless which locomotive/decoder, if speaker and/or baffle is bad, sound will be bad too.
Hrvoje,
Thanks for all the good info. I will have to look into the Athearn tender and see if I can improve the speaker/baffle arrangement as you suggest. I will start with a large High Bass speaker and work from there. Then I can do some serious tweaking of the CV's.