On the section of my railroad which I am building now I have a short stretch of street running that will be see mostly steam locomotives. My question is whether steam locomotives discharged lubricants that would darken the pavement between the rails. Same question for the pavement just outside of the rails. I am about to put down the pavement strips and would like to weather them realistically.
Oh, definitely. Steamers had to be "oiled around" regularly. Ever remember a pic or movie clip when the engineer is walking around the loco with the oilcan? All the excess drips or is flung off. Steamers often had central lube systems that shot more oil to critical parts every so often. So you'd have dripping from underneath between the rails, plus outside the rails from the rods and valve gear.
Early diesels and friction bearing rolling stock also tended to be drippy, but to lesser degrees and in somewhat different patterns. Roller bearings have lessened this, but a diesel loco still tends to oooze here and there rolling down the tracks.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Think about all those photos we have seen with the engineer standing beside the steam locomotive with a "big ole" oil can. Lubrication was added to multiple points on the running gear outside of the wheels by hand and/or by automatic systems. Additionally, any steam leaks around the cylinders would result in greasy water dripping down. I suspect that street running would involve slow speed and might well be close to the engine servicing area or station where the locomotive would have received oil on all of those bearings of the drive rods. While I don't have any photos, I would certainly suspect that oil & grease stains would develop outside of the rails in such an area.
And although they were somewhat rare in the U.S., some steam locomotives did have 3 cylinders, with the center cylinder connected inside of the frame which would have resulted in increased chance of oil drippings down the center-line where those big locomotives were used.
Bill
Autos tend to throw off fluids from the center of the units where motor/trans/diff are located. Steam Locos tend to throw off "stuff" on the outside of the rails where a lot of lubing took place. That's not to say there wasn't much on the inside of the rails, for there was.
Steam railroading, especially with coal fired locos, was a very dirty situation at best. Oilers were cleaner, but the dirt and oils still managed to collect everywhere.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Thanks for confirming what I thought was true. I knew steamers had a lot of moving parts that required frequently lubricating. I thought that there would probably be some dripping of that lubricant but I didn't want to just assume that to be the case. It would seem from what the two of you have said the pavement between the rails should be heavily weathered and a little less so just outside the rails.
At our live steam railroad where the rails run on pavement, the concrete always darkens and gets oily-looking right outside the rails and in the center between the rails.
I watched a video last week where the old guy was saying that for one particular engine, most of the time spent in the roundhouse was trying to stop the oil leaks that were happening on one type of loco. He said they leaked as much as they burned and that brought an early end to them.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Allow me to repeat what one of my Grandpas said about a steam engine.
A steam engine needs a lot of tending to during a run and if that simple fact is overlooked you risk your life as well as your follow workers lives. Neglect a steam engine and she can kill you.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Beach Bill And although they were somewhat rare in the U.S., some steam locomotives did have 3 cylinders, with the center cylinder connected inside of the frame...
And although they were somewhat rare in the U.S., some steam locomotives did have 3 cylinders, with the center cylinder connected inside of the frame...
In the U.S., there were even more of the balanced compound, with 4 cylinders, with two cylinders on the inside. For example, GN and SP&S each had 10 4-4-2's. And Santa Fe had 434, mostly 4-4-2's and 4-6-2's. All (I believe) were simpled (down to the regular 2 cylinders) fairly quickly. So I think the 3-cylinder locos (UP and SP and IHB) could be regarded as more successful.
Ed
Coal-fired steam locomotives drop hot cinders through the grating, and some ash. This will land almost entirely between the rails.
Outboard of the frame, which is surprisingly narrow, the bearings throw off dirty lubes. All pivot points on the rods do the same, as do the rods on their cranks.
All modern steamers had mechanical lubricators and/or hydrostatic lubricators. With lube constantly being forced into the bearings on the bolster of the engine truck, on crossheads, and into both the spindle vales atop the piston cylinders as well as into the cylinders themselves, it should come as no surprise that tracks are dirty, tarry, and in wet weather, slippery and dangerous places to be.
Cylinders cool when no steam is being admitted to them. This happens when the engine is stopped. Before long, their liners cool enough that what little steam does get to the cylinders begins to condense and puddle at the bottoms of the cylinders. This must be eliminated prior to admitting steam and forcing the pistons to move inside the cylinders. Cylinder cocks, two on each cylinder, are opened as about the first thing the hogger does when he gets the okay to move by the conductor. He does this to prevent a hydraulic ram being made of the cylinders. Since the hydrostatic lubricator is providing steam oil all the time, when the cylinder cocks drip or emit oily steam, some of it ends up outside the rails on the tie ends.
If you read the posts carefuly and look at a steam engine, with a couple exceptions (3 cylinder engines, Stehpenson valve gear, Heislers and Climaxes) all of the lubricated parts are near or outside the rails, NOT down the center of the track. Plus, in the steam era all the car had plain bearings which dropped oil outside the rails.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Remember also that it rains in the real world. Much of the grime would be washed away. Also if your modeling an area that gets heavy snow in the winter, the road gets scaped by the plow and the snow run off does a pretty good job of clearing off the streets. The vehicular street sweeper was invented in the late 1890s, but the early ones may or may not have had an effect on your pavement between the tracks.
I’d suggest that the weathering needs to be far more subtle than the picture that’s being painted by the previous worthy respondents. Just Google “steam locomotives in streets” and look at the images. Cheers, the Bear.
I didn't get a lot of hits of period steam locomotives running in streets but the few I did find seem to support your suggestion for subtlety. I would have thought the pavement would be more weathered. I've had oil drip on my garage floor which suggested to me the staining would be more pronounced than it seems to be. As another poster suggested, rain and snow would wash away quite a bit of the leaked lubricants. My tracks will run on a concrete strip down the middle of an otherwise asphalt road. I'm wondering if the concrete would be more prone to stain than the asphalt.
jecorbett I would have thought the pavement would be more weathered.
I'd have to say that the weather (especially rain) and the road traffic would have obliterated much of the deposits. By sheer volume, the vehicle traffic probably contributes about as much oily deposits as the passing trains did.
I find it interesting that the slight dips in the pavement, especially on the Interstates, causes the oil, clinging to the engine, to shake off the vehicles just past the dips in the road. Especially noticeable on concrete pavement.
You really won't find many ashes or cinders dropped unless there are holes rusted in the ashpan. They were generally pretty good at holding the cinders until the gates were opened to dump the ashes.
As pointed out, much of the lubricants spilled to the outside of the gauge, especially oil slung off the wheel faces that leaked out of journal boxes.
In the diesel era there was some oil that inevitably leaked from the gearcases just to the inside of the gauge.
And this shot, also in Elizabeth, Pa. on September 20, 1975.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/trainplanepro/11204100984
Regards, Ed
jecorbett. I'm wondering if the concrete would be more prone to stain than the asphalt.
Cheers, the Bear.