I attended a train show in Tulsa, Oklahoma on February 13. The show was great as their were some good deals to be had and 5 layouts set up by various clubs of all different scales.
I seemed to notice a problem with the layouts. Most of them were too tall for the little kids to see. Other than parents/grandparents holding the little ones on their shoulders or picking them up, is their anyother way?
I wonder if some sort of platform for the little ones to stand and watch the trains would be a viable solution.
Will
That's a marvelous idea. And it should happen.
If a person supplies a supporting platform to a child, and that child falls, then the supplying person is likely to be held responsible for damages. If a PARENT lifts a child, and the child falls, the PARENT is responsible.
Will. Would you consider attending these shows and supplying the platforms? I know that I, as a grandparent, will appreciate that.
Ed
Will. I actually agree with you. And I am not happy that a "good samaritain" could suffer for his/her efforts.
wholemanI wonder if some sort of platform for the little ones to stand and watch the trains would be a viable solution.
Here's the ugly side.. The child falls and breaks a arm..Guess who gets sued? The club and the show promoter.Sure the insurance pays the law suit and then jacks their rate for the next show if they don't drop the shows promoter altogether.
Now mom,dad or grandparents holding the child is safer for everybody and the only ones hurt is the ambulance chasing attorneys like those you see being advertise on TV..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIEHere's the ugly side.. The child falls and breaks a arm..Guess who gets sued? The club and the show promoter.
Wonder if they have a forum too
Jim
I used to take a step stool for my grand kids.
Once a mother tried to shove my grandson off because it was there for every one and he wasn''t sharing it.
Dave
I agree with Larry. I have seen many inovative ideas that parents come up with so the little ones can participate and be closer to the action. I think it should stay that way, they seem to get along just fine. I can't imagine building a layout 30" high, unless it was at home, puposely built that way for a little one.
Mike.
EDIT: For the record, I am not a club member, I just go to the local shows, and my comments above are from my observations while attending these shows.
My You Tube
LION has little visitors to the layout of him. And no, him has no steps for little ones to climb up on. Kids under 18 are not permitted up there without a parent anyway.
Layout of LION is fairly tall, hard to see if you are little. Also is hard to see because it is a SUBWAY LAYOUT, all little ones get to see are the outside of the subway tunnel anyway.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
While our HO layout is at normal height, and the little ones need to be lifted to see what is going on, we also have a 3X16 N scale that is only about 32" high. Small fry love it and can get up close to the trains. If a train happens to get hit it is no big deal, as the trains are not high priced or extemely detailed and cannot be knocked to the floor, although that rarely happens(can't remember the last time).
wholemanI seemed to notice a problem with the layouts. Most of them were too tall for the little kids to see. Other than parents/grandparents holding the little ones on their shoulders or picking them up, is their anyother way?
In my opinion lowering the layout is out of the question. 1) It needs to be a comfortable height for the operators to reach without bending over. 2) It has to be tall enough that kids cannot participate with their hands (its hard enough to keep the ones that are tall enough, you know the 5ft and over crowd, from participating without being asked). At last years show our G scale club had a kid run up and push a train off of their lift bridge onto the floor. Parents and kid dissappeared quickly into the crowd.
wholeman I wonder if some sort of platform for the little ones to stand and watch the trains would be a viable solution.
A platform is not viable for 4 reasons. The 1st (already mentioned) is liability. 2nd reason is many states have fire codes that state a minimum through aisle width (Mass. I believe it is 10ft or 12ft), a viewing platform wide enough with proper railing and stairs and all that to minimize risk for a liability lawsuit would cause a rather large reduction in vendor space, which means the show does not make as much money or worse looses money. 3rd, most venues for these shows are not exclusively model train shows. Which would mean that someone has to store all of those viewing platforms the rest of the year. 4th, a viewing platform would necessarily need to be somewhat heavy and bulky. Clubs for the most part do not have infinite resources. Just hauling the modules to the show gets quite expenisive. Add cost of hauling your own platforms for viewing to the show and you either have to bring a much smaller layout, or you break the bank getting there and back.
Edit: This year at Springfield I noticed several young ones setting up their own folding plastic step stools to view our layout (thankfully supervised by parents). That seems to be the best solution from the liability standpoint and the not breaking the parents/grandparents back standpoint.
While not a club member, not one close enough for me, all the shows I have gone to, little ones need to be picked up. There is never a "viewing platform" for them.
Lawsuit happy people are the reason... One kid falls and gets hurt on said "viewing platform", and bye-bye show. For everyone.
While a nice thought, impractical, and a dangerous idea to implement. Ambo chasers would love you for it though....
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
The camera idea isn't a bad one, and my club has implemented it in the past (have an old F unit with a camera hole in it). Thinking about filling that in and getting a smaller camera that will fit in the cab in the place of an engineer figure. Shouldn't be to large a problem, Iphones have cameras, why not a train?
The permanent clubs I visit (Pasadena, San Diego) have some built in platforms for short people to stand on for a better view. They don’t surround the whole layout but are strategically placed to view highlighted scenes.
To do something like this for a crowd at a train show would require a serious amount of heavy lumber that would have to be carried in a truck. It would have to meet certain construction standards to not fall apart from the abuse it would have to take from kids climbing all over it. Besides just the platform it would also have to have handrails so people wouldn’t fall off of it, which just become monkey bars and more of a liability.
It's better for parents to hold their children, who hopefully have a toy in each hand so when the train goes by they don't turn into a cat and try to catch it.
j...........
No steps or the like are allowed in our area.
We had one parent who was holding her child over our O scale modular layout and dropped her kid right onto the layout. The child broke her arm.
Even though the accident was not the clubs fault she sued us for $100,000 causing us to get lawyers involved. She did not win but it still cost us several thousand dollars to protect ourselves.
We then decided not to do shows ever again. It cost the promoter of the show to increase prices and then eventually not doing the show because of insurance cost.
I've been to the local club open houses and they have a few of those small step stools around for kids. It's hard for me at shows because I'm by myself with two kids so I would spend all day holding both of them so they could see. I guess I should bring two folding steps next time. I realize it's not very feasible to have anything there, but I agree it's hard for kids to enjoy themselves at these events. Luckily, at home the layout is low. Hard on my back, but better for them.
I belong to a modular club which considers interaction with the public (especially youth) as a core part of our mission. As a result of that belief we intentionally made the layout height only 36 inches. We have plexiglass on the front face of each module to prevent wandering little hands from causing harm. Only the smallest kids are too short to see, and the ones who can have the best view going, right at eye level.
DAVID FORTNEY No steps or the like are allowed in our area. We had one parent who was holding her child over our O scale modular layout and dropped her kid right onto the layout. The child broke her arm. Even though the accident was not the clubs fault she sued us for $100,000 causing us to get lawyers involved. She did not win but it still cost us several thousand dollars to protect ourselves. We then decided not to do shows ever again. It cost the promoter of the show to increase prices and then eventually not doing the show because of insurance cost.
As always, all it takes is one irresponsible person to ruin things for everyone else. Sadly common sense is anything but common anymore. It your case, you could have shows but just stipulate an age policy - and if anyone complains, simply tell them that due to a past frivolous law suite involving an irresponsible visitor with a child, you can no longer allow children under a certain age to attend shows.
I've brought trains to run at a modular club at shows and irresposnible parents allowed their children to run wild and in some cases were bouncing their hands along the tops of the trains and engines. As a result of some of those experiences, I'm reluctant to bring anything but older cheap trains to shows to run, which makes me wonder why bring anything at tall - I don't really have any older cheap engines and don't feel like spending money on some just to have "child proof" trains.
Again, a few irresponsible parents often wreck things for those who are.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Let me say that 99% of the people who attend the shows are responsible but it takes just one to turn into a nightmare.
We have, as a club decided to do the shows again but we will be more careful and not be hesitate to say something when somebody is doing something wrong.
We are also using plexiglass that is higher to protect the layout from roaming hands.
I have seen bad kids move model vehicles onto the tracks for trains to hit. Of course these are the type kids who grow up to be bad adults. These kids were old enough to know better. They were laughing because they knew it was wrong to do.
Hello all,
At the Rocky Mountain Train Show most of the exhibition layouts have two-step, step-stools, that can be moved around the layout, so the little ones can get an eye-level view of the exhibits.
Along with the step-stools they also setup a rope-line about two-feet from the layout to create a buffer/operating isle for the members operating the trains, and to keep little hands off of scenes.
With this setup no additional bench-work or viewing platforms are need to be constructed and/or hauled by the exhibitors.
These step-stools are relatively compact, inexpensive and can be moved by the parents outside of the rope-lines to, accommodate the little viewers, without disturbing the members operating the trains on the display pike.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnitThese step-stools are relatively compact, inexpensive and can be moved by the parents outside of the rope-lines to, accommodate the little viewers, without disturbing the members operating the trains on the display pike.
Just make sure you clubs liability insurance will cover a kid falling off one of those stools. As previously stated, most clubs dont do things like that for the public anymore, because of the risk involved. Also note that your clubs insurance rate will probably increase or you may get your coverage dropped, if you get sued for neglegence. Not trying to be a negative person, but it is the world we live in.