I just dont understand why a manufacturer will "retire" an item. I've been looking for a couple of vehicles (trucks), circa 1950's and early 60's and it seems that the two or three items that would work are "retired". Same situation with some of the structural kits (although I dont need one).
Bear "It's all about having fun."
I believe I understand your regret and frustration, but.....those formerly providing the market with these items find they don't sell in quantities that justify the retention of the tooling and actually re-issuing them after a few years have passed.
Sometimes the market changes. Well, it always changes, but eventually the extent of the change becomes apparent to those attempting to sell stuff. People either want something else or they want an improved version of what they say they want to purchase.
Maybe 3D model generation is the way to go.
Don't forget that the tooling, even dies for injection molding of plastic, wear out the more pieces are made. It gets progressively worse, leading to edges that don't line up without a lot of filing, or buildings that end up out of square, or details turning into little plastic lumps instead of a nicely formed bell or whistle. Enough product may have been sold to recoup the cost of the tooling originally, but then the manufacturer has to decide if they can sell enough MORE of the item to justify making new tooling - and if that original tooling was created back in the 50's or 60's, recreating it today will cost a LOT more than it did back then.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
It's annoying, but a modern "production run" of a model has to make a significant number of them to be economically viable. They make what they think they can sell. If a model proves to be very popular, they'll make more, but otherwise they will "retire" the model when their shelves are empty.
Walthers, in particular, will sometimes "un-retire" a model. The Bascule Bridge is an example, like the carfloat kit.
If everyone kept making every old model ever offered, though, there would be no room in the production line for new models.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
rrinker Don't forget that the tooling, even dies for injection molding of plastic, wear out the more pieces are made. It gets progressively worse, leading to edges that don't line up without a lot of filing, or buildings that end up out of square, or details turning into little plastic lumps instead of a nicely formed bell or whistle. Enough product may have been sold to recoup the cost of the tooling originally, but then the manufacturer has to decide if they can sell enough MORE of the item to justify making new tooling - and if that original tooling was created back in the 50's or 60's, recreating it today will cost a LOT more than it did back then. --Randy
Retire=Out of Stock.
Retire= The sales has run its course and has slump so,we will wait 10-12 years and introduce another run.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I feel your pain! Don't give up searching on eBay though for some of that stuff no longer made. I have recently found some "retired" vehicles that i was dissapointed to learn were discontinued.
rrebell rrinker Don't forget that the tooling, even dies for injection molding of plastic, wear out the more pieces are made. It gets progressively worse, leading to edges that don't line up without a lot of filing, or buildings that end up out of square, or details turning into little plastic lumps instead of a nicely formed bell or whistle. Enough product may have been sold to recoup the cost of the tooling originally, but then the manufacturer has to decide if they can sell enough MORE of the item to justify making new tooling - and if that original tooling was created back in the 50's or 60's, recreating it today will cost a LOT more than it did back then. --Randy Not true, a lot less when you consider inflation but even then sometimes the stuff just dose not sell as well as the compation heats up.
Not true, a lot less when you consider inflation but even then sometimes the stuff just dose not sell as well as the compation heats up.
Pretty sure skilled machinists make more these days than they did 40-50 years ago.
Adjusted for inflation? Maybe not, but it terms of actual dollars, it would cost far more to cut new tooling for, say Aunt Millie's House, than the originals cost way back when. It might take less time - you'd probably have someone draw it out in CAD, then convert to code for a CNC machine tool or EDM work. So you have a draftsman, a wash cost wise, in the old days it would have been on paper, now it would be in CAD, you have a CAM person to convert to the proper machine code, and then you have a machine operator. That's one extra person, although an operator level person wouldn't make as much as a skilled patternmaker, but you do have the CAM work which you wouldn;t have had back in the day. The advantage is that the kit producer doesn;t have to staff any of those people, they can higher someone to do the CAD and then farm out the mold production to some machine shop somewhere. You can even farm out the molding process and really do nothing but sell the product. Very common these days - hence all those manufacturers in China.
I'm not talking about amortized cost, just up front cost for the tooling, as in, here is a set of injection molds to make all the parts of this kit. Obviously the manufacturer would want to sell as many kits as possible to spread that cost, if they only sold 100 kits they would either lose a lot of money or have to sell each kit for a very high price. Hence all the preorders these days - they set a price for the model and if they sell X, they've made back the tooling cost plus a profit, so if there are at least X preorders, they go ahead and produce, otherwise the project it shelved until there is more interest.
Depending on the manufacturer, some may have used different suppliers in China. One manufacturer of vehicles (who I won't name) was making them as die-cast metal and then switched to plastic. Could be they can't or don't want to run them in metal anymore. Just a thought.
Jim
Limited run
MRJuly1950Cartoon_zpse3a5bfa6 by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
If I see something that I like at a reasonable price, I buy it. Even though I may not see an immediate use right now, later on it won't be available.
I suspect that whatever the process is for making tooling, molds, whatever; it has gotten cheaper (China?). This allows more limited/short time production runs that may not be repeated for years (if ever). It also would indicate that collectors make up a large (majority?) part of the market.
Part of this is also our fault. We now demand accurate models. In the old days a manufacturer would decorate his models in a lot of paint schemes that weren't correct for the model. But they sold and his development costs could be spread out over years of production. Not so anymore - no one wants a GG1 in SP daylight colors.
So buy it when you see it. I would estimate that at least 75% of my model railroad stuff is currently unavailable (except on the used market).
Paul
"One manufacturer of vehicles (who I won't name) was making them as die-cast metal and then switched to plastic."
I think we are talking about the same manufacturer. I am going to keep searching but it can be frustrating at times.
I feel for you Bearman, I know the one you are talking about as do many of us. It was a big disappointment to me when they went from having a quality metal products to a poor resemblance of the original in plastic with real crappy plastic wheels as well. I have a couple of them, but have chosen not to buy any more of their line now. Unless it is the originals off E-bay and then the years are limited.
Really sucks.
Johnboy out........................
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
Easy
1. They have a limited # of presses from which to mold things before the molds wear out.
2. The past stock sat on the shelves forever
3. The old molds wore out and they are mega expensive to re-machine and there is no market to justify the investment.
4. The model is no longer up to modern day market standards, or parts are no longer available for it.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I remember the old days, back when very little was made. Back when the Europeon models outnumberd the North American ones in the Walthers Catalog. Back when people never complained about not being able to find stock because it never existed in the first place. But you could get that Mercedes or Unimog no problem. Want a '48 Ford or a White semi? Ha! Start carving a block of balsa, or use the variously scaled Matchbox cars. That's what we used to do in this hobby.
Paul A. Cutler III