I am replacing the trucks on my older HO scale rolling stock from Athearn and Bachmann. The style of truck doesn't matter, I'm not that picky. Does anyone have any opinions on the performance of Kadee's ASF A3 trucks (model 504) vs. Kato's?
This car stops at ALL railroad crossings!
I just changed all my rolling stock from plastic wheels to metal. I used Kato, Kadee-with the plastic frames, and Walthers Proto. ( I wanted all plastic frames as I run DCC )
Every one of the Kato trucks, the wheels were off gauge. Trying to adjust the wheels just made them extreamly hard to turn. And because of the way the axles are machined, you can't ream the axle pockets. Also, the flanges are that thick that they have to be forced into the NMRA gauge.
The Kadee trucks were the new ones with the plastic side frames. They were also the 'self centering' style. Just to make then even more of a pain to install, the crossbar is a two piece pain in the rump. They also seem to derail more than their metal framed models. The Kadees require you to modify the frame mounting point to get them to go on the car.
The Walther Protos went in easy and rolled true. No issues.
The Katos are going back to the manufacturer. All 75 sets.
I still have a few Kadees that will gather dust in a card board box.
I just ordered more Walthers Proto.
It is a pain to replace over 125 sets of trucks, but an even bigger pain to have to do them twice.
South Penn
Both Kato and Kadee make a fine product. For that matter I find the stock Athearn and Bachmann trucks work fine too. I paint my trucks rust red or grimey black, and paint the faces of my wheels oily black. Lotta people speak well of a gadget called "truck tuner" which reshapes in journal holes in which the axles turn. I don't have one, and my rolling stock rolls OK.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Just replace the wheel sets. I had some Ertl cars that I plan to repaint but changing out the trucks was a real pain (think they were for display only) so I just installed Intermountain wheelsets and they run as good as any car, same with Accurail and others.
There's nothing wrong with any of the trucks mentioned, just change the wheel sets.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Hi,
I've got a pretty large collection of HO freight cars, and all have had the wheelsets replaced with Intermountain wheels. Many of the cars have Athearn Bettendorf trucks, and the rest have whatever trucks came with the kits or the few RTR cars I have. Replacing wheels is an expensive, but IMO, worthwhile upgrade. Replacing the entire wheelset is - again IMO - excessive, unless one is making contest or show cars.
I don't quite understand why the OP would go to all the trouble/expense to replace trucks, but is not "picky" on the style.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I agree with those that just replace the wheelset in the stock Delrin frame. The Kadee 504 is a sprung, metal truck and I have found many of the types with real springs installed are fussy to get them to run reliably. To me, the tiny bronze springs don't even look all that realistic.
The Kadee Self Centering style is an option and they are a little difficult to retrofit to an existing car. I have several Kadee cars that came with them installed and they're fine but not all that necessary.
The self centering function doesn't come into play until you lift the car off the rails. It has no effect when the car is on the rails.
I have about 50 cars with the Kato ASF A-3 70 ton truck and they run flawlessly. Maybe recent batches are poor? Their roller bearing truck has rotating end caps but does not roll as freely.
I use the Kadee 520, 33" and the 522, 36" wheelset but I also have some Intermountain and older Proto 2000 metal wheels, too.
Sometimes the axle length varies, I think some of the Bowser plastic truck frames required a shorter length?
Here is a chart from Reboxx that may help you decide.
http://www.reboxx.com/Documents/Wheelsets/33%20Application%20Chart%20by%20length.pdf
Good Luck, Ed
Well, opinions vary, but test results rule my choice.
My layout plan involves long trains - 40 to 50 cars is an "average" freight train, 80 to 100 cars is not out of the question.
So after conducting a lot of testing on both free rolling and better tracking, the truck setup of choice on most of my 800 plus car feet is as follows:
Kadee sprung/equalized self-centering metal trucks with Intermountain code 110 wheel sets.
And, contrary to popular opinion, I use a very small drop of light oil in the journal boxes when I first install the Intermountain wheel sets. The oil is largely absorbed into the sideframe casting, and seems to work like an oilite bearing with the metal axles of the Intermountian wheelsets. No dirt buildup problems have been experianced.
While not all my Kadee trucks are the newer self-centering version, I prefer those because of the more precision mounting provided by the self-centering mounting hub.
Equalization is important for good tracking - despite the abundance of rigid frame trucks on the market today. At a different time in this hobby, virtually all trucks were sprung or equalized.
Using NMRA standard track/turnouts, I do not use any code 88 wheels...........
Metal trucks provide a small amount of extra weight - where it is needed most. It should be noted that Kadee is well aware of this advantage and that is why their new two piece plastic trucks use "high gravity compound" or very dense heavy plastic - more on their new trucks later.
Reboxx and axle length - I don't use Reboxx wheels because they only make code 88 wheels. There is some concern about axle lengths and rigid trucks in particular can benifit from careful selection of same. The Reboxx charts are incorrect regarding Kadee metal sprung trucks - the lenghts listed will not work correctly - don't ask how I know, it involved hours of testing and measuring, speaking directly with Sam at Kadee, and a very heated discussion on this forum 5-6 years ago.
As it turns out, the Intermountain wheelsets are an acceptable axle length for the Kadee trucks - with sprung or equalized trucks you do NOT want the axle points tight in the "cone" of the sideframe. And in fact all model train truck side frames ride on the "top" of the axle, not on the point. The cone in a cone design simply reduces the contact area - thus reducing friction - just ask Sam at Kadee.......
The new Kadee truck also benifits from the Intermountain wheels and I am using them on some equipment - caboose trucks in particular.
Some may comment that the small springs of sprung trucks are not realistic - no argument here - I simply put performance first, detail second - as the 50 car train rolls by.........
Static models might suggest a different choice........
Zero derailments and smooth operation require higher standards.
Sheldon
Sheldon, you may have your tests, I have mine. No sprung trucks, they were always derailing.no matter how much I fine tuned them. I run NMRA plus 10-15% weighted cars in 80 to 120 car trains forward and backward all day long. I have only replaced a few wheel sets, the rest are all running on their original wheel sets, be they Athearn, MDC or metal, (IM, Proto, Kadee etc.). I do run in a clean finished room, I use CRC 226 on the rails and to clean the loco wheels about once a year and my track is bullet proof after 20 years.
I contribute the trouble free running of my trains to the extra weight in my cars, not the trucks or wheels.
modelmaker51 Sheldon, you may have your tests, I have mine. No sprung trucks, they were always derailing.no matter how much I fine tuned them. I run NMRA plus 10% weighted cars in 80 to 120 car trains forward and backward all day long. I have only replaced a few wheel sets, the rest are all running on their original wheel sets, be they Athearn, MDC or metal, (IM, Proto, Kadee etc.). I do run in a clean finished room, I use CRC 226 on the rails and to clean the loco wheels about once a year and my track is bullet proof after 20 years. I contribute the trouble free running of my trains to the extra weight in my cars, not the trucks or wheels.
Sheldon, you may have your tests, I have mine. No sprung trucks, they were always derailing.no matter how much I fine tuned them. I run NMRA plus 10% weighted cars in 80 to 120 car trains forward and backward all day long. I have only replaced a few wheel sets, the rest are all running on their original wheel sets, be they Athearn, MDC or metal, (IM, Proto, Kadee etc.). I do run in a clean finished room, I use CRC 226 on the rails and to clean the loco wheels about once a year and my track is bullet proof after 20 years.
I too run in a clean environment. I can't understand why they would be derailing?
I find that sprung metal trucks allow me to be at, or 10% below, NMRA weight RP's and still get reliable running with 100 car trains - but I take no issue with your extra weight approach.
What kind of derailments? turnouts? what brand/construction? - I will answer in advance - if you say PECO I understand why you had problems........no curved European frogs here.
My track/turnout choices - Atlas code 83 custom line, some Walthers, and some hand layed.
Track standards - 36" minimum mainline radius w/easements, #6 min turnout (except industrial areas), most mainline turnouts #8.
I do leave the rigid trucks on some equipment when no sprung replacment exists - Athearn ATSF 50' ice reefers for example.
And no semi scale couplers......
I forgot to0 mention I'm running on code 100 ModelPower and Atlas flextrack with Atlas #6 and Peco large tuned up switches. They cause no derailments. I have one dbl Xover on the main (and 3 more in the yard) that cause no derailments. It was a lot cheaper to put the extra weight in the cars.
modelmaker51 I forgot to0 mention I'm running on code 100 ModelPower and Atlas flextrack with Atlas #6 and Peco large tuned up switches. They cause no derailments. I have one dbl Xover on the main (and 3 more in the yard) that cause no derailments. It was a lot cheaper to put the extra weight in the cars.
Well I can't explain why you had trouble, but I've been running sprung trucks since the days when Silver Streak wood kits, Athearn and Varney metal cars came with sprung trucks with no problems.
In fact I still have a lot of those Athearn and Varney metal cars, and some still have the original sprung trucks, with newer wheel sets.......
My original layout in the late 60's, built for me by my father, was Tru-Scale milled roadbed track and turnouts, my next layout was all hand layed by me, since then 90% Atlas code 83.
Never cared for PECO tunouts as mentioned above......
Never had to really do anything to any sprung truck - I only got into replacing the wheelsets to reduce rolling resistance - they all worked fine with the original Kadee wheels, they just did not roll very free.
But in free rolling tests, the Kadee/Intermountain combo will out roll every rigid truck/wheel combo I have ever heard recommended, including using the turning tool, etc.
I used to have about 60 cars with sprung trucks and I'm not saying they were all bad, but I had enough trouble withthem that I decided to change over to plastic trucks (mostly Athearn & MDC). This was twenty years ago. In the last 10 years I've been adding thye extra weight until I was able to pull 120 cars (actually the record is 158) around the layout without derailments.
All the new Kadee plastic trucks are self centering.
I did use wheel sets in a lot of my rolling stock. But a lot of my older cars really had cheesy trucks on them. So I change the trucks.
The Kato trucks that gave me the most problems were the ones where the bearing cap spins.