Hello all! I am currently trying to create a Korail (Korean National Railroad) passenger train consist. I have a proper locomotive, and just recieved 3 Kato 1-608 Kiro cars today. Upon taking them out of the box, I noticed that the couplers are different from standard american knuckles. Are there any modelers of Japanese trains that can tell me how these work, and if there is a way to connect them to standard knuckle couplers? If that isn't possible, are there any couplers that I can put on the locomotive that would work? The locomotive is a modified Roco with NEM coupler pockets.
-Peter. Mantua collector, 3D printing enthusiast, Korail modeler.
I haven't seen those, but my guess would be that they will readily accept a drop in with a Kadee coupler. Which one is best is hard to say. You should check the Conversion pages on Kadee's website. I've never looked up any non-US stuff there, so not sure it's covered, but an email to Kadee will likely draw a helpful response if there is no webpage listing for it.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Kadee does have NEM knuckle couplers, go to Kadee's website to find the corredt number coupler.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
The Japanese passenger cars have coupler mounts that will not accept American couplers, and Kadee doesn't have anything about them. Just for clarification, the Japanese cars have japanese mounts, and the locomotive has NEM. The Japanese couplers are not compatable with EZ mate, which is what I have on the locomotive. I have found that mchenry couplers are small enough to couple to the Japanese ones, but standard size are too large. So I need to find smaller mchenry sized couplers that will fit in NEM, or something else that is compatable Japanese couplers and NEM, or something that I can fit in the Japanese coupler boxes.
Sorry, my posts are delayed because I'm a new member.
Upon further research, these are Kato kinematic couplers, also used on some us models
Sorry for all of these rapid posts, but it seems that kadee doesn't offer conversion it's for these.
Da Stumer The Japanese passenger cars have coupler mounts that will not accept American couplers, and Kadee doesn't have anything about them. Just for clarification, the Japanese cars have japanese mounts, and the locomotive has NEM.
The Japanese passenger cars have coupler mounts that will not accept American couplers, and Kadee doesn't have anything about them. Just for clarification, the Japanese cars have japanese mounts, and the locomotive has NEM.
Kadee couplers come with draft gear boxes. I recommend chiseling the Japanese coupler boxes off the passenger cars (I assume they're plastic), then drilling and tapping a screw hole to mount Kadees with their included draft gear boxes.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Steven Otte Da Stumer The Japanese passenger cars have coupler mounts that will not accept American couplers, and Kadee doesn't have anything about them. Just for clarification, the Japanese cars have japanese mounts, and the locomotive has NEM. Kadee couplers come with draft gear boxes. I recommend chiseling the Japanese coupler boxes off the passenger cars (I assume they're plastic), then drilling and tapping a screw hole to mount Kadees with their included draft gear boxes.
I can try that, but I'm not too experienced at this kind of thing yet. I found that scale size couplers like mchenry are compatable with these, so would there be a coupler of that small size that can fit in NEM boxes?
This is a How-To on installing Kadee couplers that I posted a few years ago
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/194274.aspx
Due to the way the forum software works (or dosen't), you may have to copy the link and paste it into your web browser
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
McHenry offers a few options on their website, but that's it. Unless they will fit the boxes on the cars, then Steve's suggestion of converting to the Kadee boxes is probablt where you'll end up. So long as you get a smooth mounting surface at the proper height, not much to it other than carefully clipping/cutting aways the existing box. It will help to have the drill and tap for the mounting screws you decide to use. Kadee supplies a self-tapping screw to use, but I typically use a 1-72 or 0-80 screw.
The passenger cars have Kato kinematic couplers, which move and stretch when the car goes around curves. Will installing a Kadee box on these be a problem? Or, as I stated earlier, the the locomotive has NEM pockets, and mchenry couplers can couple to the kato ones. I don't want to be obnoxious or anything, but are there any mchenry sized couplers that can fit in the NEM boxes on the locomotive? I feel like that would be the easiest option, because I have no experience in modifying coupler boxes whatsoever. Sorry for the trouble.
Have you looked at the Kadee site? Kadee makes several couplers with NEM mounts.
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/coupler.htm
This is a pic of the N scale version of the Kato kinematic couplers.
I presume the HO scale ones are mounted on the body?
If you do want that springy action, then if the McHenry will fit and the Kadee won't, that it's AFAIK.
I will say that I have lots of experience with the Kadee 714 as I'm in HOn3. The 714 is an older design and similarly has a spring, although it's really more to operate the coupler than to provides any cushioning effect. The bouncing is actually annoying and I've considered converting to Sergent couplers to get away from it.With 250 cars, not wanting to jump on that.
I suppose the Kato implementation is better, but still not sure it's going to be realistic, most an annoyance you have to put up with. With a short train of 3 or 4 cars, it's not too bad, but on a 20 car freight things get weird sometimes.
However, the 714 mounts in a narrower box than the later No. 5 Kadee and related couplers. If you want "kinematic" action, you'll still get it. They do mate to most full size knuckle couplers and to MT N scale ones. Not sure about McHenry's but they do not mate with the Sergents. So you may want to look at the 714, too, was it may not require the mods that the Kadee 5 series does.
EDIT: I did find this short discussion here that suggested that the new style Kadee "whisker" couplers are a direct drop in to the Kato kinematics in HO.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/195156.aspx
Also, check out Kadee's #451 extended swing draft gear boxes, which are made to retrofit long cars like the Kato passenger cars. (I found these by searching the Forum for previous threads on this topic.)
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page451.htm
OK, found a page explaining that the kinematic couplers help keep the diaphragms on passenger cars close together as the distance between cars varies going around curves. Now I understand what that's all about...
https://katousa.com/HO/Bilevel/
Kadee's conversion page suggests using the Kadee 451 "whisker" coupler for passenger cars.
http://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc_kato.htm
mlehman OK, found a page explaining that the kinematic couplers help keep the diaphragms on passenger cars close together as the distance between cars varies going around curves. Now I understand what that's all about... https://katousa.com/HO/Bilevel/ Kadee's conversion page suggests using the Kadee 451 "whisker" coupler for passenger cars. http://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc_kato.htm
So would you suggest that I remove the kinematic coupler box on one end and replace it with 451 with coupler box? Close coupling with the locomotive isn't a problem.
It sounds to me like the 451 is a drop-in replacement for the Kinematic box. Mayeb someone else will pop in with direct experience?
Kadee does list the conversion that requires the least intrusive mounting. That might still require a modification that may make reversion to the Kinematic imposible. No way to know without giving it a try. However, the "whisker" Kadees are handy for fitting where there's not quite enough room for the more traditional stamped metal springy thing, so I wouldn't be surprised if no surgery is needed at all.
It may even preserve the Kinematic buffering. I haven't seen the HO version. Is there some sort of box where the coupler mounts already or is there just a place where the coupler attaches to the sprung part?
Here is a picture of the coupler box. If you need a picture of it with the cover off, I can do that. I tried again to somehow couple the kinematic and ez ma couplers together, and I found that I can get them to couple, but the knuckle gets pushed open a bit on the EZ mate. The ez mate has coil springs, so will coupling while pushed open a bit not be damaging? If that is the case, I will just couple them that.
That is a bit different than the N scale. From the looks of it, I'd almost bet the 451 is a direct drop in.
Basically, the Kadee "whisker" couplers have a small stiff wire -- the "whisker" -- embedded in either side of the shank. This pushes against the sides of the coupler box, providing the spring action to center the coupler.This is a link to the 148, which is the "whisker" version of the No. 5.
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page148.htm
The 451 has a longer shank than the standard "whisker" coupler does to allow for use in passenger cars where there is often a long overhang because of diaphragms, etc....so I looked it up on the Kadee site...
As you can see, it looks to me like it will replace the entire kinematic draft gear, yet still allow for the swing needed on curves. So the kinematic action won't be there, instead this will be a fixed distance between cars. That may not work if retaining the "kinematic" action is important for your application.
But the 148 may work if it will drop into the "kinematic" draft gear box and let you retain that "kinematic" effect? Maybe a pic with its lid popped off would be useful? It will also let you compare the Kadee pics with it to see if they will work.
I doubt that pushing the EZ Mates together with the other will hurt them. It's a springy sort of plastic in them usually. But it's kind of a pain to have to do that if there's any switching involved.
Here is a picture of it with the cover off. The pin that holds the coupler in is on the coupler box cover. I put a mchenry there for size reference. If opening up the EZ mate a little during operation won't weaken the coil springs, then I might just force couple them together and them like that. It looks like a standard size Kadee whisker would be too large to just do a drop fit.
It almost looks like the swivel thingy that carries the coupler is big enough that one of the Kadee boxes would fit on it. The 714 definitely would and as I noted, the way its spring functions acts a lot like how the kinematic is said to act. The 714 spring may not have quite the travel as the kinematic, though.
Anyway, here a side by side pic of a Kadee 148 whisker couple next to what I think is a McHenry (or a very near clone0.
So the 148 is actually smaller in several ways than the McHenry. The back part of the shank isn't as wide as the McHenry. The 148 shank is shorter, although Kadee does offer long options IIRC. The knuckle is smaller, so may work better for that reason if coupling to the Kato cooplers that don't nest as easily with the McHenry.