I tried to search for what the consences of the forum members as to who they think makes the best Diesel loco power, in both detail and function, but had no luck.
So, could someone point me to the latest thread? I know there has to be one somewhere, that is fairly recent.
Knowing who the best model diesel supplier is doesn't help you if they don't make the model you want to buy. Or are you just going to buy whatever that company produces, and no other?
Besides, one company might be superior in the quality of detailing, while another might be below that level, but above in smooth reliable operation. Then, which company is better?
Perhaps if you explained why you asked that question, a useful and correct answer could be supplied.
Ed
I agree with 7j43k. Doing a lot more research with say, Google searches can give a good across the board sampling of good locos.
Many companies make diesel locos that can have issues, especially when it comes to DCC.
Notice, no mention of scale or DCC equipped or DCC sound equipped.
Sometimes, What is Best is a good way to start a flame war.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I don't think there's any one answer to this... except "it depends". Do you want detail? Do you want running quality? What is your budget like? Will you be switching at slow speeds? Will you have them on a club layout where they'll be subject to rough handling? Are you pulling six-car locals or lashing 'em up for 60-car freights? Are you a rivet counter? Do you model any particular road or your own? Do you like to add your own details or buy 'em done? Are you a painter or do you want 'em decorated? Are there specific prototypes or time periods you want?
There is no one clear answer, which is why there are so many manufacturers. :)
Me, I belong to a club with a massive layout, and I don't have a lot of money to spend on the hobby. I generally buy (used) Katos, Atlas/Katos, older Athearn and Athearn-based models for running on the open road. They run smoothly, pull strongly, and you can't see the lack of detail at a distance. When I do detail, I go for metal grabs and lift rings (and metal handrails where possible), and I avoid easily-breakable cab details like sunshades and firecracker antennas.
If I've got a position where I'm doing some switching, I might use my P2K Geeps as they look very nice close-up, but I woudln't want 'em getting manhandled in Engine Services.
If you're talking about current production, for the most part, they're all good enough. Who makes the model/roadname I'm interested in is the deciding factor for me.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Too many variables. I don't think it's possible to get a concensus on something like this. You need to be specific, like David said. ANd also consider what people model - I don;t buy any second generation or modern power, I model the 50's and only first generation. WHo makes the best AC4400CW? No clue, no care. Who makes the best RS-3? That interests me. Of the 3 makes I have (Atlas, MDC, and Athearn), I still like the Atlas ones the best. Baldwin switchers like the VO-1000? I don;t know anyone else producing them except Bowser, and it would have to be something quite incredible to be better than the Bowser models. Brass-like details and a mechanism so quiet you can;t even hear it running, plus it draws N scale levels of current. Other types of diesels you have multiple choices, but getting most modelers to pick one over the other - good luck with that.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Jim,
It really depends what you are looking for: Early? Transition? 2nd generation? Modern? Atlas, Athearn, BLI, Bowser, Kato, Proto 2000, Walthers all make fine locomotives but don't cover all eras. The "best" really depends on what you want to model.
I model early NYC diesel (late 30s/40s) so Atlas and Bowser make up the bulk of my diesel roster. Kato's are great locos but - other than their RS-2 (made a while back) - they strictly offer only modern diesels, which is of no interest to me.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I think we've pretty much explained ourselves and our views--no need to repeat.
BUT.
It's time for Jim (the OP) to respond.
I think some questions for him have been raised, and they should be answered. By Jim.
I dont model a specific aera, I run what looks good to me. So, age of diesel and road names dont matter. I did forget to mention that I am DCC and looking at getting my 1st " nice " sound decoder ( I have only 1 sound, a Bachmann sound value ).
Since era and road name don't matter to you, Jim, that widens the field a bit. Every railroad needs a switcher. If you don't have a switcher already then I would look at an Atlas Alco S2 or Atlas EMD MP15DC.
Both come with or without sound and REALLY crawl at low speed. (Just what you want a switcher to do.) And sound, detailing, and performance will be better than the Bachmann, as well.
I will agree with Tom about the Atlas S2. It runs great, and the sound is fantastic. It's got a metal frame, so that adds some weight. That's where it's a bit superior to the Bowser Baldwin switchers. I've got one in GN, and one in UP is waiting for me at the shop (I think). I look forward to them doing SP&S!
TYCO!!!!
Ok, being more serious, here's my experience with high end diesel:
Bowser/Stewart - Excellent runners, great detail. Can't go wrong, especially with switchers.
Bachmann Spectrum (new) - Great reliable runners and good looking (although some details can be a bit "off"). Mine are trouble free as they come.
Atlas - Excellent running quality and detail, and very hard to beat.
Athearn Genesis - Great running and top level detail.
Athearn Ready-To-Roll - More expensive ones have excellent detail and are very good runners.
Kato - Near perfect runners with very good detail.
Proto 2000 - About as good as Atlas.
I haven't tried MTH or BLI diesels, but I think this covers most of the high end non-brass that's out there right now. All except for Ready To Roll are available with high quality DCC/sound electronics. You can look through their catalogs and see what you like. That's what I do! Who needs matching eras?
_________________________________________________________________
Darth Santa Fe TYCO!!!! Ok, being more serious, here's my experience with high end diesel: Bowser/Stewart - Excellent runners, great detail. Can't go wrong, especially with switchers. Bachmann Spectrum (new) - Great reliable runners and good looking (although some details can be a bit "off"). Mine are trouble free as they come. Atlas - Excellent running quality and detail, and very hard to beat. Athearn Genesis - Great running and top level detail. Athearn Ready-To-Roll - More expensive ones have excellent detail and are very good runners. Kato - Near perfect runners with very good detail. Proto 2000 - About as good as Atlas. I haven't tried MTH or BLI diesels, but I think this covers most of the high end non-brass that's out there right now. All except for Ready To Roll are available with high quality DCC/sound electronics. You can look through their catalogs and see what you like. That's what I do! Who needs matching eras?
^Pretty much sums it up.^ Bachmann's standard line has also been vastly improving.
4 axle road style units? Bowser. (I have 2 C430 units from them, with sound, and they are the flat out best units I have ever seen! And, hard to beat Loksound.)
I have 4 axle units from Bowser, Atlas, Bachmann Spectrum, Athearn BB, and Athearn RTR.
Now, six-axle power? Well, hard to determine best here, as I have units from Intermountain, Athearn Genesis, Atlas, Spectrum, Athearn BB, and Proto 2000. All work really well With no clear-cut winner.
So, I graded my units on 4 areas: Smoothness, Power, Detail, Sound. Then Overall score by averaging the scores that counted:
4 axle units first:
1- Bowser (C430) Smoothness- 10. Power- 10. Detail-. 9.5. (they need engine crew for a 10.) Sound- 10. Overall- 9.9.
2- Atlas (C425) Smoothness- 10. Power- 6.5. Detail- 8. Sound- 7.5 (QSI Version. Tsunami version drops to a 6. I have the QSI version) Overall- 8
3- (Tie) Bachmann Spectrum (GP35) Smoothness- 7.5 Power- 7.5 Detail- 7. Sound- 0. (I have the non-sound version, so cannot give any points, but this 0 is not counted.) Overall- 7.3
3- (Tie) Athearn RTR (GE P42.) Smoothness- 8. Power- 7. Detail- 7. Sound- 0 (Again, not counted.) Overall- 7.3
5- Athearn BB (GP60) Smoothness- 6.0 (Work makes it 6.5, but 6.0 OOB.) Power- 10 (Off the charts! Counts as 10, but 11 would work here. ) Detail- 4. (Can become very high with work, but OOB scores count.) Sound- 0. (Again, not offered OOB.) Overall- 6.6.
Six axle units:
1- (Tie) Intermountain (ES44AC) Smoothness- 9.5 Power- 10. Detail- 9.5 Sound- 10. (Loksound version) Overall- 9.75.
1- (Tie) Athearn Genesis (SD70ACe) Smoothness- 10. Power- 10. Detail 9. (Need to be LED lights!) Sound- 9.5 (Horn is lousy on Tsunami Units.) Overall- 9.75.
1- (Tie) Atlas (8-40CW) Smoothness- 10. Power- 9.5. Detail- 10. Sound- 9.5. Overall- 9.75.
4- Proto 2000 (E9A) Smoothness- 9. Power- 10. Detail- 8.5. Sound- 8 (Sound file is bad on this version of Tsunami) Overal- 8.75.
5- Spectrum (8-40CW) Smoothness- 9. Power- 9. Detail- 8. Sound - 0. (Non sound version, so not scored.) Overall- 8.67.
6- Athearn BB (9-44CW) Smoothness- 6. (OOB) Power 10 (Really, again off the charts at 11.) Detail 6. (OOB) Sound- 0 (No sound equipped from factory available) Overall- 7.33.
Overall rankings for me:
1- Bowser 9.9
2- (Tie) Intermmountain 9.75
2- (Tie) Genesis 9.75
3- Atlas (Average both units) 8.87
4- Proto 2000 8.75
5- Spectrum (Ave. B .U.) 7.98
6- Athearn RTR 7.3
7- Athearn BB (Ave. B. U.) 6.96
Now, if I also graded by MSRP/Purhcasing price point, it would look way different.
And, while you do not want to hear this, these gratings are subjective. Other individuals may grade differently based on what they like, and have experienced. These are just mine, and what I find is important. (And, price is one thing I find important. It could be the best model ever, but if it out of my price range, well.....)
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Thanx, gives me some info to go on.
I just picked up a couple of Intermountain F7's and they look just like the Athearn Genesis detail wise. Haven't looked at drive mechanisms yet but they seem similar too; the IM is very smooth. Anyone know for sure if IM and Genesis use same body?
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
farrellaa Anyone know for sure if IM and Genesis use same body? -Bob
Anyone know for sure if IM and Genesis use same body?
By body, you mean the shell or the chassis/mechanism (drive)?
Intermountain tooled their own F unit shell, whereas the Athearn Genesis F's are based on the Highliner molds, which the concensus among F connoisseurs is that the Genesis shell is the most faithful in terms of fidelity to the prototype - nose contours, overall dimensions etc.
AFAIK, Athearn and Intermounaint designed their own chassis, however the Genesis Shell and the Intermountain shell were originally made to be compatible with the Stewert chassis/drive, because that was the only high quality F unit chassis available when the Highliner shell and the Intermountain shells were first tooled.
I have read some particular F unit folks criticize the Intermountain F shell for minor inaccuracies, but the only thing that has stood out to me is the post between the windshields looks a tad wide to me. I'd give the nod to the Genesis F shell as the best looking, most accurate shell too - I have 12 Genesis F units myself, which includes 6 A units. They look accurately proportioned - excellent - cream of the HO crop. I would say the Intermountain and Walthers F's look quite good, although not as good as the Highliner based Genesis F's.
Shell's aside, I don't own any Intermountain F's, only Genesis, Stewart and a set of Walthers Proto 2000. I've always heard the Intermountain chassis/drive are very good and smooth. The gold standard IMO for HO F units is the KATO drive used originally in the KATO tooled Stewart F - the shell was the first really good F unit on the market back in the late 1980's. Since then a number of F shells have been produced including the Highliner shell (best), and the Intermountain (next best) and Proto 2000 F shells (3rd best) by many opinions. After that, those 3, I would put the Stewart and Proto 1000 F shells in 4th place. Everything else pales in comparison - Bachman Plus, MRC, you name it, and Athearn bluebox/globe dead last.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I asked my Superintendent of Motive Power. He sent me this information: http://www.bowser-trains.com/history/c430loco.html
I would include Intermountain .
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Moral of they is there is no "Best" diesel manufacturer in HO - reason being there is no clear winner because of the wide variety of diesels made and if you were only going for one single brand, you would have to forgo diesels they don't make but made by another company which also makes nice HO diesels. Thats why thread titles like this one don't make much sense.
riogrande5761 Moral of they is there is no "Best" diesel manufacturer in HO - reason being there is no clear winner because of the wide variety of diesels made and if you were only going for one single brand, you would have to forgo diesels they don't make but made by another company which also makes nice HO diesels. Thats why thread titles like this one don't make much sense.
I ask you...if you were new to the hobby and didnt have a clue, would it make sense to you then?
Now I am more aware ( thanx to those who helped ) and am a little more comfortable on making my next engine purchse.
Yes and no, I suppose. If you're already past the point of buying train sets, it's hard to go wrong with any brand. If you are still in "train set" mode and looking to get something better quality, there may be some use to having some exposition on the various options although again, any brand of non-train set loco will be superior to a Life Like train set loco.
There WERE a few good train sets - both Athearn and Atlas packaged train sets with decent locos and cars, but then they also sold for more than those cheap LL and Bachmann sets.
riogrande5761;
Thanks for the info and your rating of the brands of F units. I now have 3 IM F7's and 4 Genesis F7's and they are all very smooth runners. I didn't notice any difference in the detail on the body shells, but then I'm not that critical of minor ones.
I was a little hesitant on purchasing an Intermountian after watching a couple youtube videos by Deryk Glass and the problems he had with that manufacture. Then I talked to a friend who bought an Intermountain from Deryk that quit running on him after just a couple weeks ( unfortunately it is out of warranty due to this person not having his layout track down until almost a year after he bought it ). BUT, you guys seem to have a fairly high reguard for Intermountain and so did a couple other people I talked to, so I made 2 purchases:
Intermountain SD40-2 SF DCC/Loksound $155 shipped
Intermountain SD40-2 CSX DCC/Loksound $165.85 shipped
Both have lighted numberboards and working ditch lights ( LED )
Yes, price did play a large part of these purchases. I strongly looked at some Bowsers and Athern Genesis', but the Intermountain price won me over.