I have several Atlas N scale locomotives that need a long warm up period before they will reach full speed. It seems confined to my GP9's, GP15, C628, and an SD35. I do not have this issue with my other Atlas, Kato, and Lifelike units. I was wondering if over lubrication could be the culprit, I use Atlas gear grease. I'm not sure what it's called but it is a thick blue grease. I've added the same amount of gear lube to all my units so not sure why some exhibit this behavior and others do not. I've done everything to clean up any excess lube short of complete disassembly of trucks. Has anyone else experienced this warm up period with Atlas locos?
oarb00:
I don't have any experience with N scale so you can dismiss this post as you see fit.
I have had some success with Nano Oil. It comes in three viscosities plus a grease version. I have no experience with the grease, but my experiences with the various Nano Oils is pretty impressive.
Recently I purchased a couple of BullAnt drives from Hollywood Foundry in Australia. These are essentially self powered trucks. The manufacturer recommends a 2 hour break-in period to get them running smoothly. Instead, I applied the #85 weight oil to the gears and the #10 oil to the bearings. Within a few seconds the speed increased substantially. I'm guessing about 30% but I have no way of measuring. Suffice it to say that the immediate speed increase was quite significant.
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVjBVicRVFUwAMWcPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTEzMjdnN24xBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA0ZGVUlDMF8x/RV=2/RE=1438972374/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fnano-oil.com%2f/RK=0/RS=thYrLihqfhJptL0t1d7Oq.KabTE-
They offer a three viscosity kit containing #85, #10, and #5 oils. The #5 is described as a penetrating oil and in fact it evaporates completely according to their description. I don't think it is useful for model railroading unless you are dealing with some really old, gunked up stuff. Therefore, I suggest only buying the #10 and #85 oils.
I'm sold!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Yes, I have noticed that Phenomenon. I don't think it is due to over lubing. I only use a thin oil sparingly, but most of my Atlas, LifeLike and Bachmann locos will run somewhat slower at the first startup but increase in speed after a few minutes of running. I only notice it when I am running my equipment on my clubs layout. It has a longer mainline run than my home layout. My Bachmann locos are steamers. It is not a large increase in speed but it is noticeable. I always break in a new loco running it at various speeds in both directions and set CV's 3 and 4 to zero when programming and speed matching. I don't consider it a problem.
It has also been observed on my clubs HO layout
Hello All,
Over greasing, not necessarily lubrication, might be the culprit.
Or...
You didn't mention how old these locos are.
The average over-seas built loco will probably sit in a shipping container for weeks. In that time the Original Equipment Manufacturers applied grease might harden and cause the gears to become sticky, which might explain the warm-up time.
In my experience, simply applying more lubrication; grease or oil, probably won't help. You need to purge or clean out the degraded grease and apply a thin coat of new grease.
In the prototypical world this is why grease guns are use on fittings to purge the degraded grease until fresh grease is detected through the seals.
I've heard good things about the Nano Oil products. You might be able to refresh the old grease by applying the lightest (5 wt.) product without having to disassemble the locos drive gear.
You said that you applied Atlas Gear Grease to the existing mechanisms without cleaning them. I'm not familiar with this grease. I use lithium greases; white lithium for general lubrication or moly-lithium grease- -a dark gray/black color, for more extreme circumstances.
I model in HO and on most locos the bottom cover of the trucks are removable while still having the trucks attached to the frame. If your N scale locos have these removable covers you might try to remove these, clean out as much of the existing grease as you can, reassemble and run for a period of time. This might remove some of the degraded grease and refresh it with the new grease you applied.
Recently I had a similar problem with a GE 44-ton loco. This is a Bachmann unit less than a year old.
It would not move until at about half throttle and then it would jackrabbit off, unacceptable operation for a switcher. Initially I just injected new white lithium grease into the windows on the bottom of the truck covers, hoping this would help. I ran it for about an hour thinking that the new grease would mix with the old and solve the problem.
The next time I ran the loco; about two days later, it exhibited the same problem- -sluggish initial slow speed operation until it had warmed-up.
When I remove the truck covers the new lithium grease had just sat on top of the OEM degraded grease and provided no benefit. I cleaned out the excess greases, reassembled and tried again. Again...the same thing!
I finally disassembled the trucks, cleaned them thoroughly, applied a thin coat of white lithium grease, reassembled and tested.
This loco now has excellent low speed operation without any warm-up time.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
All of my locos were purchased new within the last two years.
The problem with lubrication is that it can actually add resistance when there is to much or the viscosity is too heavy. A while ago I read in MR that the truck gears should be dry. I questioned that until recently during one of my test sequences I noticed that adding the grease actually reduced the performance.
In the case of the discussion, the grease should be cleaned out and then the bearing surfaces should be lightly oiled. That is all that is needed. Lightly oiling the gear teeth does not add to the performance. The benefit would be in extended running, so how you run the railroad makes the difference.
So many trains, so little time,
Larry
www.llxlocomotives.com
I have a few HO scale diesels with the same issue, mainly from Athearn. I've found the culprit is most often oxidation on the commutator. After a minute or two at full speed, the commutator polishes itself and everything runs at the speed it should. After letting it sit for a few days at least, the steel commutator plates get oxidized again, and it gets off to a slow start next time I run it. No harm done though! The bullet proof motors in old toy trains had this problem just as bad with their copper commutators, and they'll run for 100 years if maintained!
Try disconnecting the trucks from the motor and let the motor run free. If it gets off to a slow start, the issue is the commutator. If not, it's the grease in the gears. When I got my Atlas 8-40B (brand new), the grease in the trucks was very gooey and over-applied. Didn't slow it down, but I cleaned out the excess anyway.
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Labelle makes some light oil that works well in gearboxes.
South Penn