Why another Big Boy? Because the manufacturer expects to make money.
That is all.No need to applaud, just send beer.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Sheldon,Proto released F3A & B units in the P1K line in 2002 (Genesis F's were released in 2001). Proto 1000 released RDC's before that (competing with Athearn), RS-2's (competing with Kato) and RS-11's (competing with Atlas) in 2004. The 1997 P2K PA-1/PB-1's (competing with Athearn), the 2004 GP38-2 (competing with Athearn), the 2001 GP7 (competing with Athearn), and the 2001 S-1/S-3 (competing with Atlas) were also all released in the face of competition.
The point is that Proto was releasing competing products for years before Walthers bought them.
Respectful and friendly competition is still alive and well in this hobby...to a certain extent (just like always). Remember, ol' Irv Athearn totally spiked the guns of GSB when he beat them to market with the SD40-2 back in the '80's. But I know for a fact that some manufacturers still talk to one another and occasionally feel each other out for new product releases so as not to duplicate items. The real trick here is that there are far more model manufacturers today than there probably ever has been. It makes it a little harder to keep off each other's toes, and to build up a certain amount of trust in another manufacturer (and as usual, there are some manufacturers that will go out of their way to step on another's toes...on purpose).
And not for nothing, Sheldon, but why do you want a specific Pacific (try saying that 5 times fast)? A B&O 4-6-2 shouldn't matter to your Atlantic Central...it's all home road, right? I know you put a 2-wheel trailing truck under a Berk, so why not just do that to a Hudson? Goodness knows, Mantua did that for years (or rather, put a 4-wheel trailing truck under a Pacfic's boiler, but still...).
Paul A. Cutler III
Paul, without going blow by blow, most of the examples you give are not direct competition because they are mostly models at different detail/price point levels that appealed to different groups within the hobby.
One Example - there is no comparision between an Athearn Blue Box PA and a Proto PA.
An other example - the Athearn RDC was a dead issue just about the time the Proto model came out.
Why do I want a specific Pacific? The ATLANTIC CENTRAL interchanges with the real world - the B&O, C&O and Western Maryland. A plastic/die cast WM Pacific would be nice too, don't see that ever happening.
And on that note of that specific Pacific, you of all people should be disappointed with BLI who built their rep on supposedly accurate models, promised B&O Pacifics for nearly a decade, and then made a poorly detailed generic one and slapped a B&O President series paint job on it. They could not even go to trouble to change the trailing truck from USRA to Delta or move the headlight up to make it a little closer.
Never owned a Big Boy, never will.
Sheldon
Bayfield Transfer Railway Why another Big Boy? Because the manufacturer expects to make money. That is all.No need to applaud, just send beer.
So you say, but, I would make a small wager that Bachmann has sold more units of any one of their steam locos in the last 15 years than any one manufacturer has sold in Big Boys in that time.
Simply based on the known necessary batch sizes, the number of years the Bachmann products stayed cataloged and readily available, this is likely true.
Bachmann has only made one steam loco that had recently been previously done by someone else - the Berkshire. But the Proto Berk was only made in limited quantities, yet Bachmann continues to sell them.
Bachmann was the first to sell N&W J's, PRR K4's, and sold them right though the periods where others tried take that market from them - and to some degree they let those others fight over those markets by backing away from those models at various points.
Smarter business in my view to make stuff no one else has.
Sheldon,
Yes I am older then you (68) but I have been building models and layouts for 40 years. My Favorite roads are the Pennsylvania, NYC, Erie and the UP.
I have built layouts hand laying my own track and of course using flex when it was better for many years. Now that I have moved into a condo and am building another layout I have to use roadbed track system because of my Parkinson's, perfect? No but without Kato HO Unitrack I would not have a layout.
You are right I don't like operations but do some switching when it hits me. Yes I do like sounds, nothing wrong with that.
You are a right concerning our builders not building some of the engines us both would like to see. But remember the mfgs are building what sells and at this time it seems it is a big boy. I have seen four mfgs building a big boy for delivery this year from $599 to $3450.00. There must be a market for them. This is not counting the ones already made.
I am not a collector but after so many years I do have a collection. So let's keep our posts civil when different thoughts are posted weather you agree or not.
Keep our posts civil? This is the Internet... politeness is a sign of weakness.
(Note: The above post may contain humor, sarcasm, flatulence, or any combination of the three.)
David, rspectfully, the current manufacturers don't know what else would sell, because they are stuck in a rut.
MTH is aproaching HO as if it is O gauge, so they are only getting one type of customer.
I associate with a loosely organized group of about 40 modelers who participate in round robin meeting/operating. Layouts and interests of every size and discription. Ages, experiance and skill levels run the full range.
Among that group I can count MTH locos on one hand - and have fingers left over.
And I think the Big Boy count from any brand is similar.
And lots of them are heavy into sound and DCC.
Wonder why that is?
oldline1 DARN! Another Pig Boy. I was really hoping for another F-7 or USRA Mike or Pacific! Sure wish we could get some of those OTHER engines we all seem to ask for all the time. Roger Huber Deer Creek Locomotive Works
DARN! Another Pig Boy. I was really hoping for another F-7 or USRA Mike or Pacific! Sure wish we could get some of those OTHER engines we all seem to ask for all the time.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
I concur. I've seen the static Big Boy AT STEAMTOWN in Scranton, PA.
It's a nice loco, but I wasn't really impressed.
So, I at least, wouldn't be buying a BB. I can't run it on my small pike anyway!
Now, as mentioned, a nice USRA MIKE or Pacific, I'd be interested in.
Of course, my all time favorite Loco is a PA Mountain,Mb1 {or 2} because I fell absolutely head over heals in love with that machine at the RR Museum of PA.! That machine is a real large hulk also-especially when paired to a long-distance tender, but is so handsome!
I didn't have funds when they were released {the mountains|}, so I missed out, but hopefully IF they ever get realeased again, I will be able to get. Also,I heard people on this forum complaining about issues with the mountains, so possibly a good thing I missed it.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL David, rspectfully, the current manufacturers don't know what else would sell, because they are stuck in a rut. MTH is aproaching HO as if it is O gauge, so they are only getting one type of customer.
Could you elaborate on that part? I think you may have it backwards, where most model railroaders are "lone wolves" and buy what they like, and there are fewer "serious" model railroaders who choose to model a specific day in a year.
IMO, you guys have it backwards. The problem is that for the "casual" model railroader, most engines have been done already, so your choices in what to produce are limited to re-runs or low volume runs. That's why we have another big boy - everybody already has enough F7's.
TheWizard ATLANTIC CENTRAL David, rspectfully, the current manufacturers don't know what else would sell, because they are stuck in a rut. MTH is aproaching HO as if it is O gauge, so they are only getting one type of customer. Could you elaborate on that part? I think you may have it backwards, where most model railroaders are "lone wolves" and buy what they like, and there are fewer "serious" model railroaders who choose to model a specific day in a year. IMO, you guys have it backwards. The problem is that for the "casual" model railroader, most engines have been done already, so your choices in what to produce are limited to re-runs or low volume runs. That's why we have another big boy - everybody already has enough F7's.
Elaborate on which part? MTH approaching HO like O gauge?
Easy - propriatary control system, decoders not sold seperately to allow use with other brands, sometimes heavy over sized detail for easier handling, but most of all -
The anual "catalog" announcement marketing approach - worse than the "limited run preorder" non sense.
Maybe there are enough F7's or at least enough different people making them - and they need to keep making them.
BUT, I have 14 F units and plan to buy more - I don't have any Big Boys and will never own one.
More casual modelers than serious modelers - hard question, first you have to define those terms. That always ends poorly. But I suspect that with the right selection of products you might have more "serious" modelers.
I have posted many times on this forum my belief that the current marketing approach discourages modelers from growing into "serious modeling".
The lack of consistant supply, the lack of smaller steam, and other factors make it harder to "plan" a serious model railroad. It was actually easier to plan a serious model railroad back in the day when the same product were made year in and year out - at least you knew what you could get.
I will repeat - I'm glad I have most of the stuff I need and want for my layout, because if I was starting in this hobby today - I would not.
Smart companies create markets, rather than fight with others over shrinking market shares............
But what do I know, I only ran a train department, been self employed most of my life, and have been at this model train thing for 45 years.
More companies have made Big Boys in the last 20 years than have made models of Pacifics - something is wrong there.
Lemme see. In HO scale, Rivarossi/Hornby, MTH, BLI, Trix, Athearn. I won't count the Bowser kit. Pacifics - Mantua, Bowser, BLI, Bachmann (K4). The ludicrous thing is that that 5 manufacturers have duplicated models of the same 25 locomotives from the same raiload. Bachmann could use the K4 chassis and the EM-1 tender to produce one of the B&O P-7 variants as well as a T-3 4-8-2. I've already posted suggestions as to what else could be produced for which there is already partial tooling in existence.
Other engines: BLI could use the Reading T1 4-8-4 chassis to do a Cotton Belt L-1 or a NC&StL J-3 (Yellow Jacket or Stripe). Walthers could use the USRA Heavy 2-10-2 as the starting point for a B&O S-1. Actually, they could use that chassis to produce just about any 63/64" driver 2-10-2 (can I hear an "AMEN" for an SP F-3/4/5?). I wonder what it would take for Walthers to recreate an Illinois Central 2500 or 2600 4-8-2. IC did create them by taking USRA Heavy 2-10-2 boilers and shoving 4-8-2 chassis under them.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ic/ic-s2516.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ic/ic-s2604.jpg
One can only dream.
Andre