Hi again,
I have pulled another locomotive out of the box and am having some trouble getting it to run smoothly at slow speeds. I bought this a while back for a good price and never test ran it; at first I could not get it to run at all this week even though the flywheels tried to move when I hit the throttle.
Tore it all down and really cleaned out the trucks and gears--the old grease had crystallized and had frozen everything up. That at least got it moving. But at slow speeds now there is still a kind of rhythmic whirring and a hesitation as it moves along. I have applied Labelle 106 (sparingly) to the worm gear and Labelle 107 to the motor shafts and u-joints. Still getting the hesitation after maybe ten or so minutes of running it back and forth.
Any thoughts on what may be the issue here? I'll link a video here so you can hear it laboring. The gears all checked out fine and none were broken or cracked. Would love to get this running more smoothly.
thanks in advance!
Jim
Jim,
The motor armature shaft bushings/bearings may have dried out. Hard to get at, but can be done....You can use the 107 for that, front and back of motor, turn flywheels by hand when You do it. You can also disconnect the motor driveline and run the motor on the track and listen to how it sounds, if it still drone's or binds. Might be the driveline too.
Good Luck!
Frank
Yes, that sound sounds like the motor bearings.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I'm a little puzzled, because the Atlas Classic RS-3 didn't come with a DCC socket until very recent runs, and you say yours is older. So either the one I see is stock, or it was converted with a drop-in board -- but the board I see doesn't look like a DA-RS -- don't know if it was maybe a TCS. But you're running it off a Power Cab. So I'm a little confused.
The motor bearing issues I've seen tend to result in a definite screeching/squawking sound, not the lurching I see in the video. Without knowing a little more about what's happening, I can't give a good opinion, but I'm not sure if it's dry bearings.
Frank and Randy, thanks for the input re motor bearings--I'll apply the 107 again to the motor shafts and let it keep working itself in. Also will disconnect the driveline and listen to the motor by itself, that's a real good idea.
John, not exactly sure when I got this engine, but it was only in the last 3-4 years I think, so this isn't one of the ancient ones. I don't have it handy at the moment, but pretty sure the mfr# was 129, indicating a Digitrax decoder? and a 049 decoder/version code.
I agree what's puzzling is that this is a newer loco, all the engines I have that are 20+ years old haven't had any issues at all and run as well as when I put them away. But I do have a number of engines like this one that I picked up along the way and then simply shelved after buying them.
If I still get the lurching sound from the motor after disconnecting the driveline, I'll try to capture that on another video.
A bearing concern would not cause a lurch but a constant drag. If would either bind or be free but not come and go.
To me, it seems like something is binding in one of the gear boxes. Disconnect one at a time and run the engine suspended in the air and see if you can detect a difference.
You can also rotate each gear box by hand using the worm and see if you can feel a bind.
JimT
I agree with Soo Line's suggestion. There is something in the drive line that is tightening and then loosening, and it is happening at a rate that is much slower than the speed of the motor.
I would follow Jim's advice and test the components individually. My bet is that you have a gear or gears that are out of round or the center hole is offset and the problem is occuring when the high points come together in rotation. Turn the truck gears as Jim suggested and see what you can feel. Personally I would take the worm gear out and test it by turning the truck gears themselves, but whatever. It should be fairly easy to feel any resistance given the amount of hestitation that was demonstrated by the engine when running. Of course, I could be out to lunch on this too.
Another suggestion, if you have already lubricated the motor bearings don't add more oil until you test the motor by itself. Too much oil is going to mess up the inside of the shell.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter JimT I agree with Soo Line's suggestion. There is something in the drive line that is tightening and then loosening, and it is happening at a rate that is much slower than the speed of the motor. I would follow Jim's advice and test the components individually. My bet is that you have a gear or gears that are out of round or the center hole is offset and the problem is occuring when the high points come together in rotation. Turn the truck gears as Jim suggested and see what you can feel. Personally I would take the worm gear out and test it by turning the truck gears themselves, but whatever. It should be fairly easy to feel any resistance given the amount of hestitation that was demonstrated by the engine when running. Of course, I could be out to lunch on this too. Another suggestion, if you have already lubricated the motor bearings don't add more oil until you test the motor by itself. Too much oil is going to mess up the inside of the shell. Dave
I think you guys are getting closer. Tore it down this afternoon, took a couple more brief video clips, and I think the motor is basically fine: I can't detect any hesitation with the flywheels off and the motor running alone at a "2" on the Power Cab; or with the flywheels on but disconnected to the driveline (but help me out with that--does anyone detect anything there?).
So that would seem to put it in the gearbox. I tried swapping out the worm gear and driveshaft with an older Kato RS3 set, but it wasn't an exact fit. I have much newer Atlas Silver and Master RS3 units that I could use to do the same thing, but I don't want to go messing with those as (a) they work fine and (b) they were much more expensive to start with! i.e., they're not broke, not gonna fix something cheaper with 'em.
I'll tear down the trucks again sometime, I've already spent a bit more time on this today than I wanted to. I think I may just try to get replacement trucks online and swap them out to see what happens. (Or maybe I'll just swap with the Kato trucks and if they fit, see what happens.)
But if anyone detects any other clues from these videos, let me know!! thanks!
When it's on the track and running poorly - is that on a grade or did you just have the camera tilted? If it's not the motor bearings, it could be the end bearings on either side of the worms, as the whole drive assembly shifts one way or the other on the grade. When you have it running as in the top video, flywheels but no driveline, gently push in one direction ot the other on one of the flywheels (along the line of the driveline). You don;t want to stallt he motor, you want to exert some thrust in the direction that it shouldn;t normally see any force.
Next step would be to hook up the drive to one truck at a time and see if it's isolated to one track, or if they both have issues.
Jimt,
With the Motor out of frame, flywheels included, can You push it along the track slowly with Your finger to feel any binding. You should be able to do that. If there is a bind, You should be able to feel it, almost like a egg shaped gear. I suggested You to oil the armature shaft bushings/bearings to eliminate that possibility, whether they squealed or not. I do believe it is a gear out of round or some flash causing that lurching. I don't believe it is a worm gear, but maybe the gear that it drives. I would look at every gear with a magnifyer if You have one.
The motor seems fine by itself. Now that you've removed the trucks, have you hand run them along the tracks or bench? If the trucks run smooth, then its not an internal gear problem.
The first video seems like something is too restrictive, like: a worm cover that may be too tight....any debris under the cover? A bronze pickup that has a hole too small where the axle tips fit into. Or a wheelset out of gauge and rubbing on something.
- Douglas
rrinker When it's on the track and running poorly - is that on a grade or did you just have the camera tilted? If it's not the motor bearings, it could be the end bearings on either side of the worms, as the whole drive assembly shifts one way or the other on the grade. When you have it running as in the top video, flywheels but no driveline, gently push in one direction ot the other on one of the flywheels (along the line of the driveline). You don;t want to stallt he motor, you want to exert some thrust in the direction that it shouldn;t normally see any force. Next step would be to hook up the drive to one truck at a time and see if it's isolated to one track, or if they both have issues. --Randy
thanks Randy--this is completely on the flat, must have just tilted the camera. I'll try applying pressure to the flywheels as you suggest, but then also try running each truck one at a time to see if I can figure out if one of them is the problem.
Doughless The motor seems fine by itself. Now that you've removed the trucks, have you hand run them along the tracks or bench? If the trucks run smooth, then its not an internal gear problem. The first video seems like something is too restrictive, like: a worm cover that may be too tight....any debris under the cover? A bronze pickup that has a hole too small where the axle tips fit into. Or a wheelset out of gauge and rubbing on something.
This is real good advice--I hadn't even thought about the wheels being out of gauge, that would be kind of funny if that were it! But I'm going to tear down the trucks again tonight and look to see if there's anything clogging up the works or if there's any binding anywhere.
zstripe Jimt, With the Motor out of frame, flywheels included, can You push it along the track slowly with Your finger to feel any binding. You should be able to do that. If there is a bind, You should be able to feel it, almost like a egg shaped gear. I suggested You to oil the armature shaft bushings/bearings to eliminate that possibility, whether they squealed or not. I do believe it is a gear out of round or some flash causing that lurching. I don't believe it is a worm gear, but maybe the gear that it drives. I would look at every gear with a magnifyer if You have one. Good Luck! Frank
this is what I'll try to get to tonight--I had all those gears out, on the bench, cleaned up with denatured alcohol, and they looked fine. But now I think I've got to examine each one as you suggest to make sure they're round and smooth and functioning the way they should.
I did take the pre-emptive step of ordering a set of spare trucks off of feebay; they won't go to waste if I do figure this out, but may save me some frustration if I don't figure it out. One way or another I'm going to get this thing smoothed out.
SUCCESS!! Boy, are you guys smart. At first I ran the loco with one driveshaft disconnected, and the problem seemed to go away. So I tore that truck apart, and this time really tried to pay attention to the gears.
Turns out they weren't turning freely at all. I must have tried putting it together a half dozen ways, and could not get the truck to roll freely on the benchtop. And then I realized they were binding in the holes in the sides of the gearbox.
Took an x-acto knife, reamed out all three holes on one side of the gearbox and reamed out the three on the other side of the gearbox . . . put it back together with the wheels, and success. The truck rolled freely back and forth on the table with the gears visibly spinning and no resistance at all.
Did the same thing for the other truck, put it all back together, and here's the final outcome below. It now runs at speed step "2," yay! Anyway. I really appreciate everyone here who contributed and helped coach me through the repair.
I also have to say something about getting back into the hobby now compared with 20 years ago. Twenty years ago it was really, really difficult to do stuff like this--there was no one around (usually) to advise you on how to go about troubleshooting something like this, and hard to access information on your own to figure it out by yourself. Now, with the internet, it's amazing: youtube, forums, installation guides online, all of it. And virtually instant guidance from knowledgeable folks like yourselves!
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks again.
Glad to hear of Your success.
You have to be meticulous, with some of these little treasure's.
I'll agree about the help now a days. Not very much help in the early 50's when I started.
Take Care!