It might be simply because the focus of modeling is so often on working in miniature, but there is not any doubt in my mind that despite decades of modeling, there are numerous areas within the railroading hobby thatI have either been too passive to learn or merely unaware enough to learn at least a little bit from. This weekend I spent time at the Pacific Northwest Real Prototype Modelers Meet. Aside from failing to express my appreciation for their tolerance of my individualistic style of modeling, I was able to learn much about many of the specialties that quietly contribute to better modeling for all of the rest of us.
Opportunities to learn about the art of creating custom decals from real world photographs, identifying by manufacturer B and C sided box cars, extreme rail fan photography, as well as close study of models built with techniques that I have yet to master were just as prevalent as the discussions about the fallen flags of the Northern Pacific, Southern Pacific, and long defunct western terminus of the Milwaukee.
While my modeling includes a great deal of "inspired by..." work, I do make an effort to keep a sense of the familiar within any view point. What I know now is that the need for life long learning is quite possibly the most powerful motivating factor that separates model railroading from many other leisure time activities.
Don H.
Don,
At least for myself, I agree a large part of the fascination of model railroading being the way you're always discovering new things: about the prototype or about modeling.
davidmbedardUnfortunately, the build-it-yourself folks are becoming a minority. ...and the mfgs are dwindling in reply. Demand and supply I'm afraid. Heck....I have stopped making CP Rail GP9s because Athearn is producing them better then I can ever muster.
David,
I suspect those who practice the more arcane or even some basic arts of model railroading have always been a minority. For a significant number in the hobby, it started with Lionel and hasn't fallen too far from the tree since, even though they may be working in N, HO or something in the garden. RTR probably keeps more people in the hobby than serious scratchbuilding in more recent times. Nothing wrong with that if it satisfies the urge to go railroading.
I'll agree that we've seen some dwindling of many of the small hobby mfg's that serve us. But I suspect it's not so much people disappearing to not be replaced. Instead, a large part of this is the disconnect that the switch to internet-based commerce is many of these suppliers were still in the paper and pen era. That's mostly past us now, but I think contributed to the attrition. Now there are lots of new vendors, but also technology that makes the end user involved in things. Yes, we lost decal mfg's and they are missed hre, too. But now you can print your own decals in many cases. We've lost the LHS, but now we have mega-online stores who can most things from a carzy huge inventory at your door in a couple of days.
This has also connected North American modeling more closely to modelers around the world, an expanding segment of the market that may help make up for the losses of the hobby here.
Like you say, it's not all bad when you can buy a nicer loco than you can probably make 9 times out of 10. And that just frees up more time for serious modeling.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Don, Interesting points to ponder.
I'm not sure how I fit in or even if I fit in you see I never was much of a builder or modeler nor do I know a Youngstown boxcar door from a superior boxcar door or a Evans covered hopper from a Pullman Standard covered hopper.I shun playing follow the leader(s) or getting caught up in every trend the hobby takes.
I focus on switching operation and keeping up my short line and terminal railroad knowledge which is a never ending process.This has kept my interest in the hobby for almost 6 decades.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
My tenth anniversary at the MR Forums is coming up next month. I've been a train guy for 6 decades, too, and this is only my latest incarnation.
It's not just the trains themselves that keep us learning. I quickly got involved in Hydrocal casting and wiring for DCC. I've always liked building kits, too, but over the last 10 years my techniques have improved as I've raised the bar for the way my models look when I put them on the layout.
It's a constant learning experience, and also a constant challenge. But everytime I blow a whistle or ring a bell on an engine, I'm back to being 8 years old again. It's also constant fun, and that's a combination that's hard to beat.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
mlehman davidmbedard Unfortunately, the build-it-yourself folks are becoming a minority. ...and the mfgs are dwindling in reply. Demand and supply I'm afraid. Heck....I have stopped making CP Rail GP9s because Athearn is producing them better then I can ever muster. I suspect those who practice the more arcane or even some basic arts of model railroading have always been a minority. For a significant number in the hobby, it started with Lionel and hasn't fallen too far from the tree since, even though they may be working in N, HO or something in the garden. RTR probably keeps more people in the hobby than serious scratchbuilding in more recent times. Nothing wrong with that if it satisfies the urge to go railroading.
davidmbedard Unfortunately, the build-it-yourself folks are becoming a minority. ...and the mfgs are dwindling in reply. Demand and supply I'm afraid. Heck....I have stopped making CP Rail GP9s because Athearn is producing them better then I can ever muster.
It doesn't bother me if build-it-yourself folks are becoming a minority - having always more to build than I have time, it's a big convenience to have models offered RTR and with details added better than I could myself. I strongly suspect that most are like me as reflected by the market trends going to what sells.
I agree with Mike, probably those who are the scratchbuilders have always been a minority, probably a very small minority of the model train community from coast to coast; it may seem like there is more than is proportional because enough of the aracane modelers posting examples of their works at the RMP meets and on forums for us to see, and magazines too. But I'd wager the sales figures overwelmingly show RTR is where the vast majority of the buying is. I think it would have been that way before the emergence of the HQ RTR market if those products would have been available, but in the 70's and 80's it was nearly all shake in the box or craftsman kits.
As to being a scratchbuilder or "real modeler" - some have the chops, some not, and sometimes it's simply a matter of interest. If there were more arcane modelers once upon a time vs. the present, it's probably because there was simply no choice - if you wanted something, it was usually a do-it-yourself job - no choice. But now we do have choice so those who did it out of necessity have largely stopped.
Thats it basically.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
So "breadth of the hobby" doesn't cover us getting wider as we age.....?
glutrain Opportunities to learn ... extreme rail fan photography,
Opportunities to learn ... extreme rail fan photography,
What, pray tell, is "extreme" railfan photography? I hope it's not emulating the host of "Extreme Trains".
LensCapOn So "breadth of the hobby" doesn't cover us getting wider as we age.....?
More then most think.Those narrow aisles we enjoy today will come back to haunt us as we age..
riogrande5761If there were more arcane modelers once upon a time vs. the present, it's probably because there was simply no choice - if you wanted something, it was usually a do-it-yourself job - no choice. But now we do have choice so those who did it out of necessity have largely stopped.
Yeah, for anyone decrying the influence of RTR, imagine where the hobby would be if RTR wasn't available? The last rites would be coming right up. Instead, there's a flood of RTR that consumers seem pretty happy with. That flood is a lot like when the river floods the bottomlands 10% of the year, then recedes to leave renewed fertility the rest of the year. If we didn't have the flood of RTR, we wouldn't sustain the relatively smaller number of folks who do get involved in more eleborate scratchbuilding or kitbashing projects.
Ultimately, most people find their own comfort level with the hobby. When they don't they'll likely leave it for what are perceived as greener pastures. But it's hard to imagine a hobby as diverse in its interests and offerings as model railroading. Those in this hobby range from some 3 year old unwrapping his first wood Thomas set to 80+ year olds scratchbuilding locomotives and just about every age and skill level in between.
BRAKIEMore then most think.Those narrow aisles we enjoy today will come back to haunt us as we age..Laugh
Like the advice about avoiding hidden track, making those aisles wider is usually a lesson learned more through afterthought than forethought. Ah, to be young, not so foolish, and thinner
I only SCRATCH Build when I just have too!
If I don't then I can put time into other things - like actully playing with my trains instead of sniffing glue for hours on end waiting for the plastic to harden up so I can add the next piece!
This is probably why I have 3 Scratch Build projects going on at the same time as I don't want to waste time - As I have way too many projects to do and the time I have to do them in isn't getting any longer!
I can see why so many build a small layout so they can say they have FINISHED it and then go on to another hobby as they may feel they have accomplished everything they have sit out to do!
BUT - have not really explored the Hobby as a whole and have only looked at a few sides to it!
While they are happy - or they think they are - ARE THEY?
Only they can really answer that - but few will - mostly get on the forums and wonder out loud!
Each day there is something new for me to begin thinking about in this Hobby - 3D printing and RFID tags for car movement
Both of which I am exploring!
Way too much to do - I need to get off the Computer and get something done on the layout! ;-)
But still waiting on paint to dry! ;-)
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Learning all about modeling or real railroads, like building a layout will never end and I think this is why it is such a great hobby. I don't know how many times I have left the trainroom for the office to have a quick look on the computer to check a photo or info about something I was working on, only to find myself still reading two hours later about something totally unrelated. Having all this information at our fingertips sure cuts into my productivity.
Speak for yourself! I have my recumbant bike setup so I can watch Ulrich's (Sir Madog) Sunday morning You-Tube offerings or a Canadian Pacific cab ride through the Rockies, while I sweat and give myself a cardiac arrest.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
There's more to the hobby then I'm sure I'll ever become aware of, I know what I like, I know what I want. if others have a problem with that I'll find a way to set up a 1-800 number for folks to call and decry what I do.
It's just like TK's most recent ToT article in MR helped put it into perspective for me, "running trains" that's why I decided to particpate. I'm sure I'll build a couple kits here and there, but I'm here to replicate a world I never got to see in person.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Milepost 266.2 glutrain Opportunities to learn ... extreme rail fan photography, What, pray tell, is "extreme" railfan photography? I hope it's not emulating the host of "Extreme Trains".
Ever wonder about those photos in Trains and other full scale magazines that show a coal drag in winter crossing a remote trestle? The steamer pulling a string of logs out of the deep woods? The sleek passenger train gliding between a cliff and a deep river? When you have an opportunity to listen to a photographer demonstrate years of his work-all magazine quality stuff, it is hard not to be truly impressed by the effort it takes to supply just a few images. As the man said, " any adventure without adversity is just a mere journey." I might take just a few snippets of a scene to model that an original photo had consumed days of labor to get both the angles and exposures just right.
I have yet to find a hobby, which caters for such a broad extend of interests and requires so many different skills as model railroading does.
As a model railroader, you are
No wonder it can turn into a life-long hobby. In over 50 years, it never got boring for me. Aside from building and operating a layout, the social aspect of our hobby has gained a lot of importance to me. Thanks to the Internet (and forums like this one), we can communicate with model railroaders over the world, enriching our experience. Model railroaders are an international brotherhood, mostly nice folks,with whom exchaging views and opinions is a boost to life!
Sir MadogIn over 50 years, it never got boring for me. Aside from building and operating a layout, the social aspect of our hobby has gained a lot of importance to me.
While I never became bored I have burned out several times over the years and slowed the pace by railfaning and walking old right of ways.I've driven several old right of ways that became a county roads.
Oddly I found the social aspect of the hobby can be overrated at times.
mlehmanYeah, for anyone decrying the influence of RTR, imagine where the hobby would be if RTR wasn't available? The last rites would be coming right up. Instead, there's a flood of RTR that consumers seem pretty happy with. That flood is a lot like when the river floods the bottomlands 10% of the year, then recedes to leave renewed fertility the rest of the year. If we didn't have the flood of RTR, we wouldn't sustain the relatively smaller number of folks who do get involved in more eleborate scratchbuilding or kitbashing projects.
Hah hah, were you a geology major in the past? Your descriptions remind me of my geomorphology classes and surface water hyrology! =P Blast from the past.
I still don't understand why people talk about RTR like it's a bad thing or a threat to the do-it-yourself folks. It's not a competition to see who is best - or who are "real men". Heck, anyone who loves scratchbuilding can keep right on doing it, and many are! I still see tons of kits at train shows. I still buy them myself. I just bought some Walthers GSC flat car kits - sure I'd love ExactRails, which are gorgeous, but at $45 each, holy smokes, I just don't have that kind of money. But I do buy RTR and it's a big time saver and helps me model what I like.
Certainly the RTR stuff makes the hobby much more accessable to those who just aren't good at all the finer points or skills of scratch building, but still want to enjoy the hobby. IMO, variety and choice is a good thing. Thats breadth for you - getting back on topic.
It is the craftsman nature and electronics/computer nature of the hobby that has attracted my teenage son. He hates the RTR stuff and from speaking with his friends that come over I am beginning to think the RTR stuff is for us older guys. His friends are learning to solder and operate saws to build things. They like the computer stuff and since my son and some of his friends program in java, he likes JMRI,etc.
Richard
glutrain Milepost 266.2 glutrain Opportunities to learn ... extreme rail fan photography, What, pray tell, is "extreme" railfan photography? I hope it's not emulating the host of "Extreme Trains". Ever wonder about those photos in Trains and other full scale magazines that show a coal drag in winter crossing a remote trestle? The steamer pulling a string of logs out of the deep woods? The sleek passenger train gliding between a cliff and a deep river? When you have an opportunity to listen to a photographer demonstrate years of his work-all magazine quality stuff, it is hard not to be truly impressed by the effort it takes to supply just a few images. As the man said, " any adventure without adversity is just a mere journey." I might take just a few snippets of a scene to model that an original photo had consumed days of labor to get both the angles and exposures just right. Don H.
I saw one of those "train gliding between a cliff and a deep river" shots once at a slide show. Someplace out west, probably Washington state. Asked the guy hard it was to get. He said he took it from the parking lot of a scenic overlook.
Sir Madog I have yet to find a hobby, which caters for such a broad extend of interests and requires so many different skills as model railroading does. As a model railroader, you are an artist an architect a brakeman a carpenter a computer expert a conductor a dispatcher an engineer an electrician a fireman a historian a landscaper a painter a photographer a sculptor a - you name it.
I love the idea of learning all listed, but one...... NOT looking forward to being a Fireman!
riogrande5761 mlehman Yeah, for anyone decrying the influence of RTR, imagine where the hobby would be if RTR wasn't available? The last rites would be coming right up. Instead, there's a flood of RTR that consumers seem pretty happy with. That flood is a lot like when the river floods the bottomlands 10% of the year, then recedes to leave renewed fertility the rest of the year. If we didn't have the flood of RTR, we wouldn't sustain the relatively smaller number of folks who do get involved in more eleborate scratchbuilding or kitbashing projects. Hah hah, were you a geology major in the past? Your descriptions remind me of my geomorphology classes and surface water hyrology! =P Blast from the past. I still don't understand why people talk about RTR like it's a bad thing or a threat to the do-it-yourself folks. It's not a competition to see who is best - or who are "real men". Heck, anyone who loves scratchbuilding can keep right on doing it, and many are! I still see tons of kits at train shows. I still buy them myself. I just bought some Walthers GSC flat car kits - sure I'd love ExactRails, which are gorgeous, but at $45 each, holy smokes, I just don't have that kind of money. But I do buy RTR and it's a big time saver and helps me model what I like. Ultimately, most people find their own comfort level with the hobby. When they don't they'll likely leave it for what are perceived as greener pastures. But it's hard to imagine a hobby as diverse in its interests and offerings as model railroading. Those in this hobby range from some 3 year old unwrapping his first wood Thomas set to 80+ year olds scratchbuilding locomotives and just about every age and skill level in between. Certainly the RTR stuff makes the hobby much more accessable to those who just aren't good at all the finer points or skills of scratch building, but still want to enjoy the hobby. IMO, variety and choice is a good thing. Thats breadth for you - getting back on topic.
mlehman Yeah, for anyone decrying the influence of RTR, imagine where the hobby would be if RTR wasn't available? The last rites would be coming right up. Instead, there's a flood of RTR that consumers seem pretty happy with. That flood is a lot like when the river floods the bottomlands 10% of the year, then recedes to leave renewed fertility the rest of the year. If we didn't have the flood of RTR, we wouldn't sustain the relatively smaller number of folks who do get involved in more eleborate scratchbuilding or kitbashing projects.
Bingo! One of the best things we can do to keep this hobby growing is to celebrate aspects that are outside of the areas that we individually spend the bulk of our own time working on.My focus is normally on just a small segment of the hobby, and when by chance I went to an event that in all respects, showed how much skill and delight exists beyond my own miniature piece of model railroading real estate. Variety, depth of knowledge that can be plumbed, nuances to be learned, skills to be gained, and people who are so willing to share-that's a lot to wrap ones brain around-all available for those willing to make just a small amount of effort.
Fireman - like this one:
... not this one:
I think the breadth of the hobby is as wide & encompassing as an individual modeler wants, or needs it to be. As an aside, I just don't understand the negativity surrounding RTR.
At my rate of progress & knowing all the many projects I have undertaken that are in various stages of completion, it's really something nice to come home with an RTR model that I can enjoy right out of the box & without the accompanying thought that there is still aways to go before the box of bits I've just bought is ready for the tracks.
I beleive that it is important to respect each others choices, not deride them because somebody models differently from you. In this hobby that is often characturized by a myriad of approaches to acheive the same or similar goals there are aspects of train modeling that are probably less than ideal. This is where staying on the learning cycle is so important so that it is possible to adopt modeling methods others have used to good effect. Increasing the breadth of the hobby is not just aquiring more models but is also, as many have suggested here, about leaning new skills & ways of doing things.
Dusty
The best part of this hobby is that there are so many things to be interested in.
I personally am very grateful for the excellence of RTR models... it is one of the things that has helped fuel more realistic operations! It's easier to couple up at 4 MPH when your engine reliably runs at that speed right out of the box!
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!