Opinion requested Athearn 70 ft passenger cars

[bruce22]

I have finally put into operation these cars that I purchased many years ago. They have truck mounted Kadees and operate quite well, usually, but with occasional derailments. My layout has 22" min radii and # 6 turnouts. Would changing to body mounts alleviate this aggrevation. It's not the track or turnouts as the rest of my rolling stock performs very well.

[sandusky]

Body mounts may aggravate the problem you describe. You may hold the opinion that "it is not my track or turnouts", but your other rolling stock is not 70 scale feet long, so just because shorter cars tend not to derail means.... shorter cars do not derail. 

See if your trucks swivel (and rock a bit) freely, check your wheels to make sure they clean and are gauged correctly.....

[bruce22]

I have auto racks and other passenger cars that exceed this length, and have followed all the rules and regulations regarding truck swivel, clean wheels, correct weight et al. Thanks for the suggestions tho.

[BRAKIE]

Check the trucks by removing them from the cars and then remove the wheels.Lay the trucks on a flat surface and check to see if they are warped--be sure to turn over and check the top as well.If they check good,proceed to check the floor to see if its warp-all four corners or steps(heavy weight cars) will touch the surface.If all checks good recheck the wheels or better still just replace with metal wheels.

[zstripe]

Bruce22,

I would go along with Larry's (Brakie) suggestion and also add more weight if you can.

I have some of those cars from the 60's and that is what I did when I had smaller radius curves, even did it on the six wheel HW's from Athearn.

Now with 36'' curves...not any problem's.

Take Care! 

Frank

[richhotrain]

I have a lot of the Athearn BB 71' passenger cars, and all have truck mounted Kadee couplers.  For many years, I ran them on 22" and 24" radius curves and #6 turnouts without derailment problems and never considered a conversion to body mounted couplers.

Adding weight is not going to make any difference because these cars already comply with NMRA standards regarding weight.  Those cars have long metal weight strips sitting on the floors of the cars.

The Athearn BB passenger cars come with plastic wheels.  If you do have the original plastic wheels on the cars, you should change over to insulated metal wheels.  My early experience with these cars was that plastic wheels caused derailments on less than perfect track work.  Metal wheels are more forgiving.

As far as warped trucks go, as I say, I have lots of these cars, and I have never found warped trucks to be a problem.

So, it's back to basics and some good investigative work.  Where do the cars derail?  Only on curves?  Just on turnouts?  Do all the cars derail or just some of them.  If just some cars, if you remove them, will the rest run just fine or will different cars start to derail?   Give us more info.

Rich

[BRAKIE]

richhotrain

As far as warped trucks go, as I say, I have lots of these cars and never found warped trucks to be a problem.

Rich,I was not so lucky..3 out of 7 baggage cars I once owned had warp trucks as did one coach(this has a mail express with 3 coaches) so,I speak from that terrible school of lessons learned  which I'm without a doubt the valedictorian..  

All was a easy fix and they ran trouble free for 4 1/2 years at the club I was a member of at the time.

[richhotrain]

Larry, what did you do to fix the warped trucks?

Rich

[jrbernier]

  The Athearn passenger cars are a little 'light', but not too bad.  I have a later run HW observation with plastic trucks.  It weights 5.4 oz out of the box.  The NMRA weight should be about 5.875 oz - quite close.  I replaced the wheel sets with I-M metal wheels and added Kadee couplers.

  Earlier versions had metal trucks that many times were warped.  Also, trying to replace the supplied wheels with metal one could be challenging.  With the truck mounted couplers, they will go around 22" radius curves, but if you have diaphrams on the car ends, you might see issues.  Backing a train with the truck mounted couplers is asking for problems.  I body mounted(styrene pads) my Kadee #5 couplers and they track OK on 22" radius curves, but are next to impossible to get them to couple up.  On 33"/36" radius curves at the club, they have no problems.  My new layout has 30" radius curves, so I have no problem backing a train with these cars in it.

Jim

[BRAKIE]

jrbernier

Backing a train with the truck mounted couplers is asking for problems. I

Not to be contrary but..

It can be done and I've done it while working a passenger terminal at several clubs over the years..

However..

One needs to back at slow switching speeds and not Mach 5 or Warp speed like many operate and  then they wonder why they're having issues when making reverse moves.

[peahrens]

I just repainted 6 heavyweights I acquired on EBay.  I did not replace the factory weights as I may install interiors.  So currently they are about 1 ounce too light.  I recall there may be 3 kinds of trucks, one metal, 5 plastic, all retaining the truck couplers (using Kadees).  The variation on the plastic ones (o maybe it's the metal one) is a different size floor hole and corresponding truck shaft for the screw on one car.  One is smaller than the others. 

Anyway, these have just gone around the layout a few times without derailing, on 25" curves and #6+ turnouts, even with the added diaphragms touching.  Don't know yet about backup success.  On mine, it would be tough to have the truck attached too tight as the vertical screw cylinders tend to be a tad too long for that, protruding above floor level slightly, so a fully tightened screw does not bind the truck.  I was concerned one might be too loose, so filed the screw cyclinder somewhat shorter to allow reducing wobble on that car.  I intend to get ahold of some more plastic trucks so I can replace the metal one on that car. 

I'll bet you can get them working ok going forward.  

[BRVRR]

I have bunches of the short 72' Athearn passenger cars, streamlined and heavyweight. Many have been reworked a bit, but remain essentially stock. I add a couple of ounces of weight in the center well of the cars and use Kadee couplers.

My RR has 221/2 and 20 inch radius curves but I seldom have problems with derailments.

In fact my youngest grandson is fond of running 4-6 car consists in reverse or pushing them at relatively high speeds with out derailing.

I weight these passenger cars an ounce or two above the recommended standards which I believe accounts for their stability.

I have never encountered a warped truck, but have discovered a bad wheel set or two.

Whatever works for you. Its your railroad.

 

[dstarr]

Converting to body mount will aggravate your derailment troubles.   Passenger cars with body mount couplers need at least 30 inch radius to stay on the track.  My Athearn passenger cars with the factory truck mount couplers run quite reliably, as reliable as anything else on the layout.   And they will back up.

   I use a pad of small (postage stamp size) Post It notes to track down intermittant derailments.  After each derailment stick one Post It note on the car, and a second one on the layout to mark the  suspect trackwork.  A pattern will imerge after a few days of running, that points a finger at problem cars and/or problem trackwork.   You have to fix every problem area to obtain reliable running. 

[BRAKIE]

richhotrain

Larry, what did you do to fix the warped trucks?

Rich

 

Had the LHS order replacement trucks..I replace the plastic wheels with Central Valley wheels.

IIRC at that time the trucks was $2.98..I thought that was the best solution..I cut the old trucks up and used them for a scrap load for a Athearn 50' gon.

[Soo Line fan]

Never had any issues with the streamliners or heavyweights even on 18" curves. Forward or backwards the talgos worked fine. Cannot comment on using diaphrams but I can see how backing up with them installed could be a problem.

Agree with Rich, maybe do some mixing and matching trucks / wheelsets to narrow it down a bit.

[cowman]

To go along with Brakie and others on the warped truck idea as a possibility.  I did have one one loco that kept derailing.  The warped tuck suggestion was ae to my question.  I have a piece of glass on the workbench.  The loco appeared to be all wheels touching the glass.  However, when I slid a piece of  paper under the wheels, it slid under one, bumped the other three.  A very subtle warp, but definitely was causing problems.  Just alittle twistiing helped correct the problem, but not sure it would always work or how long the twist will keep all wheels on the track.

Good luck,

Richard

[farrellaa]

I have the streamlined 85' Athearn passenger cars that I converted to body mounted Kadees, P2K metal wheels (used Truck Tuner), and added weight as they are light. Mine run quite reliably now and very smooth going thru turnouts. I do have a 30" minimum radius thought.

   -Bob

[hobo9941]

Even if a car is already the recommended NMRA weight, a little extra weight often eliminates the problem.