Hi everyone:
I have resumed work on my HOn30 coal gondolas. They are Graham Farish N scale British 4 wheel gons with the lettering removed and painted black.
I think they will stand in nicely for a small mining operation, but I don't like the look of the stock couplers. If I am correct, based on eBay listings, they are referred to as 'Rapido' couplers. They are body mounted which I like.
I did a search of Walthers N scale coupler offerings and found a couple of possible replacements which have a more prototypical shape. Unfortunately they were out of stock, but before I go any further I thought I would ask for any recommendations here for replacement couplers that will fit into the existing coupler boxes. If possible I would like to be able to uncouple them without having to lift the cars off the track.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
The couplers on your gondolas are of the rather old-fashioned Arnold style, which has become the standard for European N scale trains. Unlike more modern HO scale couplers, which come in a NEM pocket and can be exchanged with drop-in Kadees, changing couplers in N scale is a rather surgical affair. Maybe Z scale "Kadees" from Micro-Trains do the trick.
The only N scale coupler I have experience with is the M-T 1015. I use them for the narrowgauge couplers when coverting locos to dual-gauge couplers. The standard gauge coupler is a Kadee 714. The main issue with these is getting couplers whose draft gear is small enough that you can mount close enough that the couplers line up correctly with the centerline s of both NG and SG on dual-gauge track. The 1015 comes assembled, which saves some grief. The draft gear looks pretty short to me, but then I'm comparing them to the HO scale couplers I use.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
As everyone has suggested, just use Micro Trains couplers. I do not know the size of narrow gauge couplers, but MTL's Z Scale coupler is a scale N Scale coupler. Micro Trains also makes HOn30 equipment, so you could check out what they used. As for uncoupling without hands, use a magnet for magnetic uncoupling.
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I used the new Bachmann sprung knuckle couplers on an N gauge to HOn3 conversion. They are used on the new Bachmann switchers. They are short so you can get that close couple look. They were listed on ebay.
Micro-Trains
These are built to the same design as Kadee, as the two were once one company.
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Thanks everyone for the the suggestions. I had a heck of a time finding N scale couplers on the Micro Trains site. For some strange reason the link to the couplers page doesn't show up until you click on N scale 'loads'. Unfortunately I couldn't find any pictures or size specs for their couplers, and as the photo below shows, I don't have a lot of space to work with.
Just to clarify, I am working in HOn30 scale. The N scale gondolas happened to be just the right size for my very small mining operation but they are representing small HO scale gons, not N scale.
Here is what the whole train looks like. The gons are small but that is appropriate for the very small mine I am modelling. I want them to be small enough that they could conceivably be pushed by hand in the mine:
Here is the coupler style I want to replace. I should have posted these pics in the original post:
There isn't enough space to mount something like a Kadee #711 which is what is on the front of the locomotive. The 711 coupler box is about 1/8" too long to fit between the end of the gon and the axle.
Ideally I will be able to find an N scale realistic looking coupler that will fit into the existing coupler boxes. In a perfect world they would also couple to the #711 but I'm not holding my breath for that! I found some Red Caboose couplers on eBay that may work.
Again, thanks for your suggestions and information.
I think you really want MicroTrains N scale or MicroTrains Z Scale couplers.
Here are diagrams of their N scale ccouplers with dimensions.
http://www.micro-trains.com/Coupler%20diagrams.pdf
Their Z scale couplers are a little smaller, but will work with the N scale. http://micro-trains.com/pl-ZCouplers.php Could not find any dimensioned drawings. I would seriously consider the 902, 903, and 905.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
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I think you are right - Micro Trains is the way to go.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for the link to the coupler diagrams! I had missed the line which linked to the diagrams. Duh!
Unfortunately there is a key dimension missing from the diagrams and that is the overall length of the coupler boxes. I have about 6.5mm between the front of the gondola and the axle. Some of the coupler boxes seem to be within that dimension (just) but I am guessing at that without the exact measurements.
I think the best course of action would be to contact Micro Trains directly and see if they can suggest a solution (probably should have started there in the first place but I wasn't initially aware of Micro Trains).
I'll keep you posted.
Dave,
The draft gear on the 1015 measures about 3/16" x 3/16". You could leave a little bit hanging out past the end beam if you're really tight on space, as the mounting hole is offset toward the back of the box. I'm pretty sure it was designed as a drop in replacement for those Rapido couplers you have now.
Hi Mike:
Please help me out here. I need to stop guessing at this! What exactly is the "draft gear", and how have you measured it? The dimensions certainly sound like they would fit in the space I have available.
Also, when you refer to 'replacement' for the Rapidos, are you talking about replacing the whole coupler including the box or just the coupler itself?
Pardon my ignorance of the terms.
Much appreciated.
The draft gear is the box that holds the coupler on a model. On the prototype, it's bigger, heavier, more complex. Sothat's the size of the whole enchilada, excluding the length that the coupler sticks out of it, which doesn't interfere with the mounting.
Just looking at your pic and what I remember about Rapidos, I think that taking out the Rapidos will leave you with a space that will fit the 1015 almost exactly right. If the current couplers are screwed or pinned on, it made be as simple as just substituting one for the other. The 1015 comes totally assembled, coupler and draft gear, you only need to attach it however the current couplers are mounted.
Thanks Mike!
The existing coupler boxes simply clip into the bottom of the body. They actually come out quite easily with a bit of a squeeze.
I think I will wait to see what Micro Trains suggests simply because if they have a coupler that drops into the existing coupler box that would obviously be a very easy solution, not that installing a new coupler box would be any big deal.
Thanks again for your help.
Gidday Dave, you could always scratch build some of these.....
http://cprr.org/Museum/Ephemera/Link-Pin_Couplers.html
..should be no problem to a chap who fits multiple LEDs into HO cars.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Right Jabear!
I'll get right on it!
Actually I had thought of using permanent draw bars between the cars but that would eliminate any switching options. That would relegate the mine track to simply going round and round. After all the work I have put into scratch building my two HOn30 critters (Yes! the original now has a twin!) I want to get more than that out of them. Besides, can you seriously suggest that pulling one of the pins in that arrangement in N scale would be doable? Ya, I thought so too.
Thanks for the laugh! (I really hope you weren't serious!)
Gidday Dave, you could always scratch build some of these..... http://cprr.org/Museum/Ephemera/Link-Pin_Couplers.html ..should be no problem to a chap who fits multiple LEDs into HO cars. Cheers, the Bear.
There are these
;
http://www.shapeways.com/model/725875/a06-n-nn3-working-link-pin-couplers-wrought-iron.html?materialId=61
hon30critterI really hope you weren't serious!
hon30critter...Thanks for the laugh! (I really hope you weren't serious!)
I sorta get the impression that he was serious.
Besides, you said:
hon30critter....Just to clarify, I am working in HOn30 scale.....
All kidding aside, though, I think that the MicroTrains couplers should do the trick.
Wayne
hon30critterThe existing coupler boxes simply clip into the bottom of the body. They actually come out quite easily with a bit of a squeeze.
Can't say for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if the 1015 is designed to clip right in, just like the Rapido. M-T is good for things like that.
I just made an interesting discovery. When I bought the lot of seven gondolas they were advertised as Graham Farish and sure enough the car I checked when I got them (eBay) was Graham Farish. However, upon closer examination I have discovered that only two of the seven cars are Graham Farish products. The others are Bachmann! The bottom view of the car I showed was a Bachmann. The Bachmann coupler boxes come out quite easily but the Graham Farish ones are molded into the bottom of the car. Now I understand what Ulrich meant when he said they would require some surgery.
Mike:
I'll have to check with Micro Trains but I think you might be right when you suggest the #1015 couplers. It should be pretty easy to mount them on the GF cars because the underside of the car pops off easily.
GF is now a Bachmann brand: http://www.bachmann.co.uk/farish.php
Thanks for clarifying that. I just received another GF wagon today, brand new in the box, and sure enough it says Bachmann on the bottom. The two wagons that I have that say Graham Farish on the bottom are obviously older stock. Turns out I wasn't mislead after all.
By the way, the Bachmanns are much better detailed.
Dave, I don't know if you considered this, but mine cars were often handled in strings of several cars at once. At least, in the anthracite coal mines that I am familiar with. I have been working along similar ideas as you, and purchased some british prototype N scale gondola kits for my HOn30 critter to pull. I was thinking it would be best to permanently couple 3 cars with knuckle couplers on each end. Probably a lot cheaper too.
BTW, like your critter. Do you have a website or blog about it?
Howdy, Bear.
Okay, how would you make an automatic coupling link-and-pin? Reason I ask is that they're prototypical for my 762mm gauge prototypes. My sometimes desktop is Kurobe Gorge Railway EDS13 - a center-cab Bo-Bo motor with a single-arm pantograph. It has its tongue hanging out! (i.e., there's a link in the visible link-and-pin coupler.)
Actually, I have a sly, cunning trick for making one - which I'll probably never try!
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with 762mm gauge feeder lines)
Hi Maurice!
I have been considering doing as you suggest but it hadn't dawned on me to link just a few cars together. Groups of three cars would work quite nicely and would fit on the dumping trestle where they will drop their loads into an HO 34' two bay hopper several inches below the mine track.
Thanks for your comments on the critter. It is based on an N scale 4-4-0 Bacnmann loco with the motor in the tender. I scrapped everything above the basic drive system (two geared axles, chassis and worm gear) and built the critter body from brass. The original tender had the sides filed flat and was then covered with .020" thick lined styrene with .060 spacing IIRC. It looks like a work gondola but that is where the motive power is coming from. The locomotive body was fabricated from various thicknesses of brass sheet. The visible engine is from an HO Bachmann power generator. The loco has constant LED lighting. It is DC.
Here is a pic of the construction of the critter part way through:
Here is a picture of its twin critter which is very close to completion. I think I may have managed to mount the journal boxes unside down:
I made a couple of small changes to the second critter. I moved the headlight to the front of the hood. On the original the headlight sits on top of the roof. When it shines there is a shadow caused by the exhaust stack. I also moved the air tanks to the roof instead of having the tank mounted low on the back of the locomotive where it would be prone to damage.
Thanks for your interest.
Maurice
What are you using for motive power on your HOn30 layout?