I have a proto 2000 GP A&B unit that I took the coupler box off of and the $$**$% thing exploded like a bomb.I sure don't want to take off the other one and have two to put back on. Between shaking hands and vision or lack there of, I have a problem.
Can anyone tell me the order the parts go back together in relation to the coupler? Is the coupler box upside down in relation to coupler and so on?
Thanks for any help.
Lee
I don't have that particular model, but isn't there a parts diagram in the box that shows how everything is put together?
Lee,
Does this look, or is the coupler you have?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-6005
If it is, the spring goes in first,with the straight points through the slot pointed up,then the coupler,with pin pointed down, then the cover. The other cover, I believe is a shim,that goes between the coupler pocket and body to adjust height.
Frank
If this Proto Max is the same as the Kadee #30 series, the coupler can be installed in the box either way. Kadee calls it lid on top or lid on bottom. The position of the coupler will change coupler height. If you have one assembled, copy the parts orientation for proper height.
I use the Kadee 30 series (torsion spring) quite often. They can be a real pain. Once you have the parts fit correctly, a good trick to keepeing them complete is to add a small drop of CA @ the "ears" corners of the box. Use care to only glue the cover only. This will keep the entire unit assembled and allow ease of assy or disassembly. That other flat piece does appear to be some sort of shim. Examining the other coupler/ box should give you the placement.
Edit: Further examination of those parts. The couple drops in first, the spring goes next w/ the legs on each side of shank and through the slots. The flat w/ large hole goes on top to retain the spring, then the cover. As I had mentioned previously, the placement of the coupler/ trip pin needs to be figured from copy the other one as to proper orientation as the position of the trip pin in relation to the box will change the coupler height.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Bob,
Your Edit paragraph is correct. Been a long time since I messed with a Kadee version.
The tricky part is placing the legs of that spring into the slots on the coupler box. You are going to need a pair of hobby tweezers and an Optivisor would help greatly.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks Guys
I got it back together and lubed with graphite but did not solve the problem with the coupler being too stiff. I was trying to get the uncoupler magnets to throw the coupler far enough to the side so I could push back a string or cars.
Had to use reader glasses and a large mounted magnifier.
Have a good one.
By any chance, do you think you have the mounting screw to tight? Loosen it some and see what happens.
FrankI don't think it's too tight, I'm cautious about that. The spring is pretty stiff compaired to a kadee #148 with the little metal wiskers.Was kinda hopeing to have everything working correctly in case the Grandkids wanted to play.
Always appreciate the help.
Lee,First so yas know I hate those type of springs..I would replace with a KD 148 and be done..
While not a GP20 the coupler box the same.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
If the coupler still gives you problems, change it to the Kadee #38. This is the medium centerset. the mounting for the #38 is 29/64th from railhead to top of box (coupler mounting surface) The reason for suggesting the 30 series coupler is the short box is comparable to the ProtoMax and that added clearance may be needed to clear truck. The 30 series, although one of the biggest pains to assemble, is that they are the best operating coupler that I have ever used.
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page38.htm
If the mount dimension is diferent, check out the kadee chart for the appropriate version.
Sorry Guys, I really threw you all a curve, The coupler box I showed you came off the "F" A & B units in the background of the picture I posted. Not sure what made me call it a GP.The lift pin "rod", goes right under the coupler shaft and makes it hard to get the box off. I may fall back and regroup, been stressed out with some health issues lately.
Have a good day All.
No matter, the 30-series works the same way regardless of the type of loco.
yankee flyer Sorry Guys, I really threw you all a curve, The coupler box I showed you came off the "F" A & B units in the background of the picture I posted. Not sure what made me call it a GP.The lift pin "rod", goes right under the coupler shaft and makes it hard to get the box off. I may fall back and regroup, been stressed out with some health issues lately. Have a good day All.
Those Proto geep coupler boxes have always given me fits. They remove easily, but like you found, that uncoupling "shaft/ rod" detail can get jamed behind the box buffer plate on reassembly. After breaking a few, I now will place a thin strip of styrene under it as the coupler box is slid "home". A few pilots were extremely tight on the box fit, slight filing for added clearance helps.
First I've seen a #30 series knockoff on anything. All my Protos have #5 style knockoffs, which I repalce since they are the older Proto coupler, not the new Proto Max, and those old ones are JUNK with a capital JUNK.
Stewart F units use a #30 style in the Kadee close coupling kit - and yes, they are a pain to assemble, so many pieces. The trick for me seems to be to get it tgether then partially slip it in the pilot so the slot in the pilot is holding it together, then get the screw in it before pushing it back into place, thus holding it (mostly) together.
On the Geeps, I've found using a small screwdriver to lift up on the uncoupling lever (by prying between the coupler assembly and the cut lever) keeps it from being trapped behind the coupler unit.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
call me the odd ball, but after assemble of both ,and nether is easy ,I'm pro walthers protomax BUT I do use a bit a MEK around the edges to hold-em together and find I get a better sucess ratio with the walthers style ...
But to answer the question on a bit more ridgid spring hampering magnet opts ,I would think so, due to the fact the proto spring did seam heaveier wire , but thats what made it easier to assemble, the kadee spring was VERY light and for me was easy to get pinched while assembly and if MEK penitraded to far ,it was a gonner ...
Now Im not recomending MEK or any other glue , but I could NOT keep those things together for install , maybe with more experiance I would find a way , but Im really hopen I DONT get more experiance with them ...Jerry
Thanks to all who tried to help. I did get it back together but like I said, with no improvement in operation. That was the first time I had come across that type of coupler and when the (Fill in own favorite word) thing exploded I sure didn't want to take another one off.After I get my confidence back I will try to make improvements.
Happy trails.
good to know you got it.
looking back at picts in this post ,you can see the Biggest difference In the two brands, is the box it self the proto had a top and bottom that with just a touch of glue would keep it together while not interfering with spring or coupler movement on the other Kadee was more of a open layered box that I found difficult to find a glue point that wouldn't cause movement problems.
And I have he exact GN set of AB units as you and IF you dont watch the uncoupling bar detail wire, it well impede the coupler play as well as some careful exactor blade scraping of the bottom of the shell @ coupler shank well free things up (it just barely rubs here if screw isn't left loose)... love those f unit ...Jerry
BIG JERR good to know you got it. looking back at picts in this post ,you can see the Biggest difference In the two brands, is the box it self the proto had a top and bottom that with just a touch of glue would keep it together while not interfering with spring or coupler movement on the other Kadee was more of a open layered box that I found difficult to find a glue point that wouldn't cause movement problems. And I have he exact GN set of AB units as you and IF you dont watch the uncoupling bar detail wire, it well impede the coupler play as well as some careful exactor blade scraping of the bottom of the shell @ coupler shank well free things up (it just barely rubs here if screw isn't left loose)... love those f unit ...Jerry
Jerry, the front "tabs" of the Kadee cover can be glued. I do this regularly now w/ the 30 series. A drop of CA to those 2 spots and wick up any excess. I can completely remove a coupler assy and set aside and they stay intact. Messed up a couple before finally figuring it out. And those springs sure a PITA, small twezers and holding a spring leg w/ a #11 blade while trying to "slip" that lid on, Geeeeze
Tough to get the hang of, but these are some of the best operating, self centering couplers I've used. Delay, self cener and never jam or hang up. The curved face of the "draft" gear may not simulate many later prototypes, but is a perfect fit for older 1st gen diesel a dead ringer for early Geeps.
"those springs, geeeze"
yes! it was'nt just me , BUT kadee does give extra springs ,thankfully cause when there gone there gone "like lookin for a cat hair in shag carpet"...got NO extras with my 8-pack of proto