I have a question, which I address mainly to the owners of brass model railroad items.
My insurance agent has asked me to provide them a list of my model railroad items.
I know that my contents are automatically covered by my insurance policy up to a maximum of 60% of the replacement value of the house and outbuildings (detatched garage)
I am lucky that I have kept a list of the majoritiy of most items of my model railroad roster as i obtained them.
These of course are the cost new of the items, the insurance agent indicated to me that I could go for one of two options.
The first option is that should my house be destroyed I would be paid the depreciated value of the items on my list.
The second option being reimbursed the approx replacement cost of my model railroad items.
The premiums for the second option will of course be higher.
For all but my brass items my list of my items is acceptable, however I am concerned with the brass items.
To help determine the values of my brass items I have obtained two publications to help me try to determine a ball park value of my brass locomotives.
The first being the Brown Book of Brass Locomotives(1994) and the second being Brass Model Trains (2009 Edition). Both of these publications are of course dated.
I was advised to check the on-line version of the Brass Model Train, it is the Brass Guide,
http://www.brasstrains.com/BrassGuide/Collection
Forgetting about the books, how accurate are the values posted on the online Brass Guide site? .
I find book values tend to be higher than typical actuals - I think the slant is to get you to purchase the book. I have never realized "book value" in selling Lionel.
That said, having a book in hand sometimes makes a sale go at a higher price than it otherwise would have - in my experience. But I have yet to see a regular buyer of brass use or refer to a book - the sellers only pull out the book for one-off sales to suckers like me.
Brass prices seem to vary widely (differences of $100 - $200) for the same item, both on e-Bay and in private sales.
For insurance purposes, I would find out what the insurance company will accept as a reasonable price guide. For example, would the claims adjuster consider the books too old and therefore unreliable? Or, since they are published material, would the books be considered more reliable than any web site or local "expert"? Would e-Bay actual sales averaged over the last 6 months be good enough? How about Caboose Hobbies prices? Or does it have to be some sort of "certified" appraisal? What your insurance company does at time of loss should control how much effort you put into valuing the brass in advance.
Are you allowed to pre-specify the insured value of each item? Some insurers actually like the agreed-value method since it makes their loss calculations easier. I have seen this often in the marine world with boats and yachts. But this only works well if there are no significant price changes in the next 5 years - or whenever you next update your policy.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Over the past 10 years, some brass has gone way down (a few pieces have gone up). Take for example a run of the mill PFM K-27 HOn3, they used to go for around $350 or more, day in, day out. Now I have seen them go for around $150, at that price I am tempted even though I have sold all my HOn3 stuff. Brass Climaxes are another that has taken a big hit in both HO and HOn3.
Don7,
Just my , when it comes to Insurance,for Models, in my experience, it's best in the long run,to try a flat rate, rather than,books and such. A loss is a loss period. You will never get what any book says. I know what I'm saying. I had Antique car insurance, tools,included,in my property insurance. They came out and took pictures, of everything, I wanted insured. Then I decided,what I wanted to pay,every year. That will be the bottom line. It's like betting on a race horse,that may never come in,,You may wind up paying triple in insurance, for something that can be bought cheaper. Try a flat rate,for everything,you would like to insure.
Cheers,
Frank
I should not have mentioned the books, as they are dated, my question really centers around the Brass Train online site?
How accurate do you think the posted values are?
don7 How accurate do you think the posted values are?
Since the site owner's methods for determining values are proprietary, it would be difficult to determine accuracy. I assume the values, and the prices on his stock, reflect his personal opinion of the market.
In what appears to me to be a declining market, sales prices are going to vary widely - and my evidence of watching dealer shelves and e-Bay suggests that prices do vary widely - as much as 50%. Some dealers and buyers will cling to their out-dated idea of what the price should be, and the transaction will be made (eventually). With in general a plentiful supply as folks age out of the hobby or collecting brass, there will be those who refuse to pay more than bargain basement prices.
But if your true motive is value for insurance purposes, what really matters is whether the methods used to value your brass are acceptable to the claims adjuster of your insurance company. Whether I think the posted values on the Brass Trains web site are accurate or not has no meaning to your insurance claims adjuster.
If your true motive is not insurance, then I advise shopping around. Check prices on e-Bay and various dealers who sell brass, and compare.
Quote:
Fred W,
I can not explain it any better than,the above.
don7 I have a question, which I address mainly to the owners of brass model railroad items. My insurance agent has asked me to provide them a list of my model railroad items.
Don, I don't own any brass locos, but I am going to respond anyhow.
Fred and Frank are correct about values.
Remember, as you yourself said, your agent wants a list of model railroad items, not values.
In the event of loss, these items will be on record with the insurance company.
At that time, replacement values can and will be determined.
It doesn't matter what they are worth now or how you arrive at current values.
Rich
Alton Junction
Been there, done that. Fortunately, the loss was for the most part non-train items.
That website could be one data point. Nothing wrong with using it to determine current value. Another, likely more accurate source would be to use the Completed Listings in eBay to check recent sales prices. Obviously, some items of brass are rare enough there may be no recent sales.That gives you replacement cost if an item is no longer for sale as new. While you don't need that number directly for every item, it's good to put some value on it so you can total it and have it available in discussing your needs with your agent.
Now, if you go cheap and decide on depreciated value coverage, then what you originally paid becomes important, because that's is the starting value that is then written down by depreciation to determine what will be paid. If you have receipts, good, but just having a somewhat accurate listing of the loss is good to have availableHow this works with brass I dunno, since some of it could have appreciated. That's probably where you should consider replacement cost coverage, as it automatically takes appreciation into account.
As for the insurance itself, I definitely recommend the extra cost of replacement cost insurance. It simplifies things enormously when you don't need to haggle over depreciation, in addition to value. You list what was lost, assuming you were lucky enough it wasn't a total lost, along with the cost to replace. That total is what you have available to use.
At least with my insurance, you then purchase whatever you want to replace the lost items with. You are under no obligation to replace with like items. For instance, maybe a bunch of standard gauge items melted down in the fire? You've been getting into narrowgauge lately, so you decide to visit the Blackstone candy store That's cool, just submit receipts for up to the total listed value.
What you usually don't get is a check directly for the value of the lost items. You have to replace, then are reimbursed up to the total of your covered losses.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I have run a couple of searches on e-bay for completed sales of Canadian brass locomotives and was surprised at just how much has sold and also the prices paid for many of the items.
I had thought like many others that the value of brass locomotives was going down, what with the number of old baby-boomers who had died and sold their collections.
I was surprised at just how high some of the Canadian brass has sold, Some of the later PFM Canadian railroad engines are selling for close to what some of the new brass is fetching.
I hope your right and it is really the list that is most important to the insurance company, however, I do have most of the receipts for the brass which has for the most part been purchased over the last three years.
Thanks all for your advice.
don7 I hope your right and it is really the list that is most important to the insurance company, however, I do have most of the receipts for the brass which has for the most part been purchased over the last three years.
If in doubt about whether there is a need to include an estimate of value, call your insurance company.