I'm suddenly interested in this. It seemed like a very impressive layout, especially since he had such a complex story surrounding it, and the fact that only one locomotive survives.
-What can anyone tell me about it in general?
-What is the line's fictional history? Did Mr. Allen ever create one?
-Has anyone beside me given any thought to what it's diesels would look like? I designed a paint scheme when I was bored one day. DId he do this? Has anyone else?
-Lastly , does anyone know where it is set? Like where it is located? Is it the Am. southwest?
Thanks
The Beaverton, Fanno Creek & Bull Mountain Railroad
"Ruby Line Service"
Gidday, only from what I've read a while back,I gather that after John Allens death the layout was badly damaged by fire.
Our Hosts have this down load on the Gorre & Daphetid here..............
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/mrpdf040.html
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Book
http://www.micromark.com/model-railroading-with-john-allen-expanded-hardcover-edition,9892.html
or
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004L18IN0/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
assume you're familiar with the G&D web site: http://www.gdlines.com
there's at least one picture of a diesel under the pictures gallery: http://www.gdlines.com/Galleries.html
the gorre & daphetid wikipedia site lists additional references
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregcthere's at least one picture of a diesel under the pictures gallery: http://www.gdlines.com/Galleries.html
True, but pics of G&D diesels will be few and far between. The locals had this tendency to "dispatch" them to a hotter place. See the results here:
http://boscofigures.4t.com/catalog.html
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
KBCpresident .... -Has anyone beside me given any thought to what it's diesels would look like? I designed a paint scheme when I was bored one day. DId he do this? Has anyone else? ... Thanks
....
...
I don't recall seeing a diesel that John Allen did. But at least one passenger steam locomotive was painted in Mandarin-red along with some passenger cars. So I would think a red diesel locomotive with the G&D diamond herald would probably be the most faithful.
Enjoy
Paul
I don't recall seeing any diesel that John Allen had done and surely,not on his layout...My all time favorites,were the,G&D and also the,A&LP..
Cheers,
Frank
IRONROOSTERI don't recall seeing a diesel that John Allen did. But at least one passenger steam locomotive was painted in Mandarin-red along with some passenger cars. So I would think a red diesel locomotive with the G&D diamond herald would probably be the most faithful.
I drafted two paintscheems, which I will post if I get can figure out how: One is Mandarin Red with a black top and bottom, and the other is black with a red stripe, bordered by silver stripes.
Has anyone tried to 'continue' the G&D, like sort of make a tribute layout and model Mr. Allen's railroad, say, into the future? Or just as it was? I know in the website, they said that for his 100th birthday, they got another layout with a town called Gorre and a town called Daphetid, and ran some reconstructed/rebuilt G&D stuff.
An updated version of the G-D might have it absorbed into the BNSF, and feature Amtrak trains, abandoned branch lines, container facilities at Port, 7 Elevens, Burger Kings, cell phone towers everywhere, etc. etc.
No, thanks.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
KBCpresident Has anyone tried to 'continue' the G&D, like sort of make a tribute layout and model Mr. Allen's railroad, say, into the future? Or just as it was? I know in the website, they said that for his 100th birthday, they got another layout with a town called Gorre and a town called Daphetid, and ran some reconstructed/rebuilt G&D stuff.
Over the years there have been several releases of G&D rolling stock and some of the signature structures like the 2 stall engine house. Notably the NMRA's first Heritage car was a boxcar for the G&D in all the popular scales.
While the original 43"x80" layout has been redone in several scales, AFAIK no one has attempted the final G&D. While quite impressive, the layout reflects the state of the art of the time - multiple loops of the mainline through the scenery, fixed control location, etc. If John Allen was building his layout today, I'm sure it would have a very different design taking advantage of more modern control systems.
That was Tom Hokel's Pine Ridge RR, a large layout that recreates much of the feel, and even the track plan, of the last G&D. It's probably as nice a tribute as any layout out there. It was featured in another magazine about a year ago, with a trackplan and more photos. Google it and you can find more, including some video.
Rob Spangler
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/mrh-2012-07-jul/pine-ridge-railroad
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Don't forget Gorre & Daphetid's pre-transition era Emma1 and Emma2.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
I like to think there was only one G&D and only one John Allen. The linking of the two will never really be recreated and any simple carbon copy of the layout would be less than satisfying, I would imagine. There would be no imagination in the road, just a copy.
Any imagination or updating of his layout, diesel or otherwise would be that of someone else and not John Allen, no matter how much the experts on G&D would think they are into his mindset. It is best to remember it and John as they were. The G&D and John were joined in a bizarre, attractive and unique manner that will forever haunt model railroading as a reflection of an era and an imaginative and talented man who did it his way.
As a maker of fantasy roads all my life, a little bit of John is within me as I remember his original articles from the 40's, 50's and 60's in all the various magazines. I saw his stuff and drooled over his imaginative take on model railroading.
No matter how much we might think that what we do would mime John's efforts, they are, in the end, our efforts and interpretations, not his.
Don't mess with the purity of the icon lest you come up with what amounts to Rambo #7 "Rest Home Under Siege - Rambo's Not Dead Yet".
Enjoy painting the diesel in your own imagined G&D style. I have a couple of old Roundhouse G&D car kits on hand.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
One thing most people either forget or never knew, was that the original G&D, was tiny!
I mean like 3' x 7', the entire first layout was built into a section the final layout, its there in the plan if you look hard.
BTW ...Re: Dismals on the G&D, never happened, he "disliked" diesels, so much to the point that he modeled a now rather infamous diorama of the G&D railroad folks linching a visiting diesel salesman.
Have fun with your trains
If you pick up the Linn Westcott book, it points out that although the G&D didn't have an diesels, John did allow friends to run their diesels on occassion. One regular operater on the railroad had I think a GM diesel switcher cow-and-calf unit that regularly worked on the layout, although John was apparently always careful to remove it before taking any pictures of the area it usually worked.
Plus of course, John was by profession a photographer, and was hired to photograph models by manufacturers like Gordon Varney. He often used his layout to take pictures of diesel locomotives made by these companies, even though he wouldn't have used the models himself. He also did some brass locomotive ad photos, and he did either buy some of the engines or got them 'in trade' for doing the pictures.
There is a good video / DVD available showing the layout(s)....
http://www.sundayriverproductions.com/detail.aspx?id=97
HO model trains magazine in a 1950 article By John Allen shows the G&D in 1946 built on a dining room table. It was tiny. The G&D saw a couple of iterations before what we call the G&D of legend and lore came to be.
John started like most of us, small and cute. Amazingly, he had his characteristic diamond G&D logo on this little micro layout! Being a photogrpaher and graphics artist of sorts, it stands to reason a cool logo and name was there in finished form long before his road was.
His penchant for bizarre and silly scenes with the likes of conductor and inspector, Mr. H.P. Vestibule III, being front and center. This all predated his finished G&D and shows his wild, free ranging imagination was going at full speed, early on.
"HO model trains" magazine, touting "HO scale exclusively" on their cover, was regularly packed with John's material and was one of the first HO mags to push HOn3 in a number of early articles and even a NG car build article.
A fabulous pictorial article appeared in MR in 1963 with photos and text By John Allen.
As far as Diesels on the GD Line, the Wescott book states that Diesel salesmen making sales calls on the line, where summarily hung on the spot!
Although I am a great admirer of John's GD layouts (all three of them) I feel reproducing them would simply be copying. However, I also think that today's model railroaders put far to much stock in the modern model railroading tomes of the day. He was far ahead of the times! Take him for what he was, an innovator and genius who took the hobby farther ahead than anyone has since (my opinion)!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP2626 is correct on some of his points. Most of model railroading's signal advances in the past 30 years have been in technological advancements, model off-the-shelf detailing and expansion of availability of just about any widget, scenic, loco or rolling stock that ever existed. It's all good of course.
John just seemed to give something special to the community as a whole and let us laugh at ourselves and with him while admiring him for is innovation and boldness.
Hi KBC President
John Allen planed the layout years ahead of where he was at the time.
There have been several based on layouts that are obviously influenced by the master.
John probably had a history for the line a lot more though went into it than goes into most layouts
which is why it was so good.
No diesels except one rail car that may even have been a petrol job, diesel salesmen tended to get summarily executed on the G&D.
I have always believed the G&D was USA somewhere provided there where mountains.
Decals can still be ordered for the G&D and G&D rolling stock kits show up on evil bay from time to time
I have some.
I don't think a dead accurate copy is possible, not many of the structure kits seem to be still available.
the structure kits where commercial adaptions of Johns scratch builds.
Also personal taste will always be present in a layout that just cannot be suppressed, and still have a layout the builder is happy with.
The G&D influenced a lot of modelers in its time, and to some extent still does today.
I always thought the very first G&D was 6' X 4' with 15" radius curves but I could be wrong on size.
But none the less it was very small and was still part of the last G&D layout.
regards John