rrebell You will probably have to kitbash the attachment point.
You will probably have to kitbash the attachment point.
Again, I have already converted my two BLI Heavy Mikes and the recently acquired Pacific, using Athearn Genesis Pacific Delta Trailing trucks.
The BLI loco uses a two point floating attachment, a design I never have cared for. But the conversion was easy. The forward mounting screw on the BLI locos is in the correct spot for the Athearn truck. I simply had to cut off the mounting stud for the secondary point and make a bushing for the hole in the Athearn truck to make it smaller.
I tried earlier to take some photos but they did not turn out to well - maybe later.
Sheldon
maxmanWhat I'm wondering, at least in the case of steam engines, is if the available pool of people who are actually able to identify the differences is shrinking. I believe that many of us would look at the loco you reference and would believe that it has very fine details. The issue seems to be that the details are indeed fine, but incorrect. I would not know the difference.
Good point, I think, and something which may mean future locos will be even less-correct, as the researchers may not be all that knowledgeable, either.
tstage.....that's exactly some of the same reasons why Bachmann offerings for the NYC are foobies, Sheldon. Although I haven't looked at their 4-8-4 Niagaras, their other 4- and 6-driver NYC locomotives are so generic that they don't even come close to representing what the NYC had in their roster.
I thought that their Niagara had at least some of the attributes of the prototype, pretty remarkable considering that it was originally a spin-off of their Santa Fe 4-8-4.
I ordered two of their Ten Wheelers when they were first announced, in hopes of building a couple of CNR H-6-gs, but just about everything about them was wrong. Here's a brass version of an H-6-g showing why that project went nowhere:
I very seriously considered making mine into NYC locos, basing them on the two St. Thomas-built 4-6-0s operating on the Canada Southern, but I had no place on my layout where I could have added a NYC interchange. The Bachmann "high boiler" version would have been an excellent starting point, I think, and these locos appear to resemble, at least in a cursory inspection, several other classes of older Central Ten Wheelers.
Canada Southern 10-Wheeler
Mine will end-up as free-lanced locos, a project long-delayed while I do work for others :
I made a NYC-inspired Mohawk (that's what my road calls theirs, too) starting with the Bachmann USRA Light Mountain, although I didn't attempt to copy any more than the shrouding often used around the turret-related piping on many of Central's Mohawks and Hudsons, and the Berks and Hudsons of my favourite prototype, the TH&B. I added some front-end stuff from Cal-Scale and the Delta trailing truck came from the parts drawer - ex-Rivarossi, I think, from a USRA Heavy Pacific. Since it wasn't my intention to make a representation of a NYC Mohawk, I can't say for certain what dimensions were right or wrong, and which details would need to be altered.
Precision Scale offers a well-done version of a Delta trailer, with an optional booster assembly also available.
Wayne
Sheldon,
I read over this month's MR product review of the BLI USRA Heavy Pacific this morning and even Dana's review of the Erie sample wasn't exactly a stellar one. Although there were some things BLI got right, there were also a number of things that were wrong with it - in particular the driver OD and spacing, running boards, generator placement, and incorrect front trucks. (So, it wasn't just the B&O version they didn't get right.)
It appears someone at BLI didn't do enough homework and produced a 4-6-2 Heavy that's only a decent representation of any of the road names produced - at best. Dana also mentioned about the Commonwealth Delta trucks being on later versions.
It reminds me of the PCM/BLI F3s that were released a few years back. They produced the A-units with dual headlights. Unfortunately, the NYC prototypes only ever had a single headlights. I was able to remove the superfluous headlight, fill in the hole with squadron putty, and paint it to match the shell. Still, I wish they would have gotten it right the first time.
In PCM/BLI's defense, at least that's a "fixable" foobie. I'm afraid I can't say the same for the Bachmann's NYC 4-6-0 Ten-wheeler. It's a lost cause.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd you know this to be fact why? Because you don't model steam? Which diesel era? There were diesels in the era I model.
Watching diesels being produced with more and more prototypically correct details is how I draw my conclusion; observation. I've been noticing this on 1960's - 1980's era diesels - mistakes out there? Sure, but the trend is definitely there. So I'd say "moving forward" for diesel modelers yes. I don't know steam, you do, and your argument seems to be the hobby is moving backwards? So to sum it up again, backwards for steam modelers, forward for diesel. I'm pleased as punch with the trend in diesel products.
Actually, I can point out a number of detail mistakes and/or lack of high quality detail on diesels as well - some of those also from Broadway Limited. The example that comes to mind quickly is the poor quailty of the diaphragm detail on their E units when compared to Proto2000. I would give more credit to the argument that diesels were more mass produced and the "variations" were fewer and simler over a larger number of prototypes making it easier for model manufacturers to get it right at a lower cost. Last survey anybody took, the transition era still was the number one modeled era. Sheldon P.S. - In ten years are you going to move your modeling era forward by ten years? I know some do, but most modelers I know don't, and I'm surely not.
The example that comes to mind quickly is the poor quailty of the diaphragm detail on their E units when compared to Proto2000.
I would give more credit to the argument that diesels were more mass produced and the "variations" were fewer and simler over a larger number of prototypes making it easier for model manufacturers to get it right at a lower cost.
Last survey anybody took, the transition era still was the number one modeled era.
P.S. - In ten years are you going to move your modeling era forward by ten years? I know some do, but most modelers I know don't, and I'm surely not.
To address the last comment first, some do shift and back date. I started out mainly interested in 80's and early 90's model railroading because that is what I saw first hand until I moved to area's where trains were strange looking to me. I have since gotten alot of color books and video's showing 60's and 70's era and have the resources to match models to real trains of my child hood and teen years, so I now am interested in 1965 - 1980's. I was born in 1959 fyi so really anything earlier than that is just something I never saw first hand. A friend of mine in another state started with 70's and 80's and back dated to 1953, but he has the cash to buy lots of brass to get prototypically correct steam. So people do definitely shift time frames.
As far as "in ten years", in ten years there will be a lot fewer men alive who had any personal connection with steam when it was actually used in mainline service (not counting museam or excursion steam). Already we are seeing evidence steam/diesel transition waning in a major way, see below.
I'll set the cat among the pigeons now with a recent forums survey. It looks like transition era falls to 4th place even if you lump 1931 thru 1959:
I suspect as the hobby ages out, the steam/diesel transition era will continue to fall behind in popularity simply because those who were alive to remember it will be drastically reduced in numbers. Now sure, if you take a poll among the older generation, that will surely skew things somewhat back, but it looks like one could argue the 1st to 2nd diesel generation transition era is fast taking over the steam/diesel trainsition era. Just sayin!
Now if I'm upsetting the apple cart by being a strictly diesel guy in a steam era topic, then maybe the topic should have been labeled "steam modeling moving backwards?", then ok, I'd stay out since I admit I don't know steam, wasn't born until after it was basically gone from nearly all standard gauge service.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Funny, rio. You and I were born in the same year and yet you gravitate toward modern diesels and I gravitate towards steam and early diesels of the 30s/40s. Why is that? And why is it that when NKP 2-8-4 #765 comes here to Cuyahoga Valley (from IN) that people - young and old - come out of the woodwork to see her.
I'm also curious where you got your data from in your post above? Is it a personal poll? How can we conclude that it was taken from a balanced cross-section of model railroaders. Seems the pool of poll takers is somewhat limited with a grand total of 141 participants. FWIW, you can add one more vote to '41-'45 for me.
Wrong, I take it you got this on this forum. The overwhelming majority here do diesel but if you go to some other forums, the opposite is true. There is a lot more action on a steam railroad than a diesel one. With diesel you only need fuel and sand and those don't need any elaborate delivery mechanism, steam however needs fuel (a railroad could use three types coal, diesel, wood). It needs water and sand also and to function you need to service the engine by removing the embers with all the cleaning tools needed, basicly a lot of layout eye candy. People model what they like, I never saw steam run the main but I have a lot of it and originaly was only steam. My buddy is 10 years younger and he is 50/50 also.
The poll was not on this forum. But having said that, I realize that the bias in this topic, simply by skimming the discussion, is folks how are into steam. Hence my oft repeated phrase, cat among the pigeons!
tstage Funny, rio. You and I were born in the same year and yet you gravitate toward modern diesels and I gravitate towards steam and early diesels of the 30s/40s. Why is that? And why is it that when NKP 2-8-4 #765 comes here to Cuyahoga Valley (from IN) that people - young and old - come out of the woodwork to see her.
Strange isn't it? It happens, heck, the example I gave above of a friend who back dated to 1953 is a bit younger than me, but he has the cash to make it happen fairly accurately. So yes, it happens guys born after steam get interested in it. But does it represent modelers my age or younger, probably not. As Sheldon commented, people by and large stick with an era/time frame, and I argue mostly time frames they were alive to see.
I'm also curious where you got your data from in your post above? Is it a personal poll? How can we conclude that it was taken from a balanced cross-section of model railroaders. Seems the pool of poll takers is somewhat limited with a grand total of 141 participants. FWIW, you can add one more vote to '41-'45 for me. Tom
That survey was from an informal poll on a train forum. There might have been a poll to ask what age category the readers were, that would be interesting to see. I figure by the disussion here all about steam, which is greek to me, it's a steam crowd, hense my comment "set the cat among the pigeons!" heh heh. As you point out, that poll isn't statistically significant, but was only just something to illustrate where things are headed.
Simply from a general common sense argument, assuming that in general guys model trains they saw with their own eyes, my educated guess is that those alive during steam are quickly aging out and fewer in number. How many are alive now who fought in WWII, not many at all; you'd have to be what, 86 to have been about 18 at the end of WWII. Now do the math, when was steam essentially gone from standard gauge rails? By the time I was born - 1959. Take 14 years off of 86, thats 72 year olds were 18 when steam was basically gone. Say they were 10 when steam dropped it's fires, then you'd have to have been 62 to see the end of steam.
Yes, a large percentage of the spenders are probably between 40 and 70 so you can see this still includes a lot of people who were alive to see steam near the end. But the numbers also show the trend is the numbers must be waning as that generation ages out and is gone. Who will be being lots of steam in 5-10 years to turn things around? I see the trend as continuing to be backwards based on all that.
Ok I'll admit one of my pet peaves is forum titles which leave important information out in order to "hook" forum readers into coming into a topic they might otherwise deem uninteresting. For me, it wastes my time when I go in to see what the topic is about and find it's not interesting to me. When I saw "Are we going backwards", I fell for the bate and found this was really a topic about steam modeling. Ok, you hooked me in and now you got me - cat among the pigeons! You poked the bear! But having gone in and "fell for the bate", I had to offer my argument that the title doesn't seem to represent diesel modelers as a rule, so I came in to make my point. Maybe that is my revenge for forum posters who use titles as hooks! Anyway, I think we are not going backwards, those of us squarely in the diesel era.
rio,
If a poll isn't "statistically significant" then it doesn't really illustrate anything except that it's a straw horse argument. You can make a poll say what you want. Personally, I don't think any poll can or will ever accurately state what people's interests are in or whether one particular era is overtaking another for popularity.
I'm also curious, rio. Since you claim that steam is "greek" to you, have you even tried to understand how one operates? While you are free to model what you enjoy, perhaps getting to know something about a steam engine would give you different outlook on both the hobby and railroading in general.
For example, if one were interested in NASCAR, wouldn't it give a spectator a better appreciation for the sport if he or she were to understand what racing was like back in the 50s and see how the cars have evolved during that time. Otherwise, your view remains somewhat narrow.
Just stirring the embers of thought...
Simply from a general common sense argument, assuming that in general guys model trains they saw with their own eyes, my educated guess is that those alive during steam are quickly aging out and fewer in number.
That is a flawed assumption. I'm only two years older than you, born in 1957, but I model 1954? I never saw a steam locomotive in regular service as a child or young adult? Unless you count the fact the the Strasburg tourist line is really a common carrier and has been running steam nearly all my life just an hour from here where I live - I've been there a lot in 56 years - three or four times every year now days.
Among the 30 plus members of our local round robin group, Only two or three model time periods newer than the 80's. Our group ranges in age from several guys in their late 20's and early 30's to some well into their 70's and 80's.
One guy models 1925 - he was not alive then, Another models 1947, he was not born until a few years later as well.
One of our oldest members, in his eighties, models the early 1960's. He is likely the only one who fits your assumption at all - he models the trains of his younger adulthood.
Yes, many in the group are older, but another member only in his 40's also models the 1950 time period. He models the C&O and has a large steam loco collection.
Among the modelers I know, or have known over the years there is no evidence or trend to support the idea that most people model the trains of their youth, or trains they have seen in service in their lifetime.
Personally, I have nearly zero interest in the trains from my youth in the late 60's and thru the 70's. My only childhood memories of regular service trains was the Baltimore & Annapolis - a little shot line that had only one loco - a GE 70 tonner - and who ran limited passenger service with a single RDC leased from the B&O - which I did ride on occasion. And yes, I have Bachmann's model of B&A #50 and I have an Athearn RDC lettered B&O - but they are far from being the focus of my modeling interests - and actually both prototypes existed in my 1954 time period.
Therefor, there is no reason to assume that interest in modeling steam will fade at a rate similar to the aging of the modeling population - if it fades at all.
I would suggest that if modeling steam is fading, it is not because younger modelers did not see steam in action, but simply because as time marches on there are more "eras" to choose from.
And the other simple fact remains, it would have been real easy for BLI to do better on this model - I'm not even asking for "perfect" - but they could have done a lot better.
Getting back to the original posting. Sheldon, you commented on BLI's incorrect headlight, bell and trailing truck.
The B&O Pacifics went though many changes over the years, resulting in more than 1 oddball along the line.
Could it was simply a case of mis-numbering of a reasonable model of one of these oddballs that is causing you gas pains?
This B&O Pacific looks an awful lot like the BLI model to me! Headlight, bell and lack of a Delta trailing truck!
Maybe they we looking at 5203 when they were thinking 5300???
Karl
NCE über alles!
Karl,
That is a B&O Class P5 Pacific, a USRA light. Broadway makes that model as well, and it is reasonably correct.
The Pacific is question is a clone of a USRA Heavy Pacific, class P7, built in 1927. It had different size drivers, different boiler, different trailing truck, etc, from the P5.
BLI makes both a USRA heavy and light version, and the heavy version is offered by BLI painted in the green paint scheme that only the P7's were delivered in. The P5's were always painted black.
And in fact the 30 P5's that the B&O owned, and their 20 P6 sisters, went through very few changes.
The P7's however were rebuilt into many different sub classes with lot of variations. But the green paint scheme offered by BLI was unique to the P7's as built. As soon as they began changing them, they recieved a number of alternate paint schemes. The most common of which was sold royal blue. I would run down all the P7 changes but it would fill a small book.
The BLI USRA Heavy Pacific does not even have the correct size drivers for a Heavy Pacific. They simply put a USRA heavy Mikado boiler on the drive line of the light Pacific to make it "look bigger". An effect that is visually effective because the heavy Pacific boiler sat higher and therefor looked bigger, even though it was really almost the same as the light Pacific boiler. Only the fire box and combustion chamber was bigger.
The USRA light, or B&O P5, has 73" drivers, the P6 has 74" drivers. The P7 has 80" drivers - the P5's and P6's were numbered 5200 series, P7's were 5300 series numbers.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s5300ags.jpg
This brings up another point slightly off topic. When first go interested in trains, I wanted to know all about them, how everything worked, etc. And I learned it. My 7th grade science project was on how the Westinghouse Air Brake works.
No offense intended to anyone, but I am amazed at the lack of functional prototype knowledge among modelers today.
But I will admit, I'm the engineering type, I'm an electrical designer, acrhitectural designer, I've built cars, and houses, and all sorts of stuff.
I know how a steam loco works, I know how a diesel loco works, I konw how air brakes work, I know how ice A/C and steam heat worked on old Pullman cars - I can't imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No offense intended to anyone, but I am amazed at the lack of functional prototype knowledge among modelers today. I know how a steam loco works, I know how a diesel loco works, I konw how air brakes work, I know how ice A/C and steam heat worked on old Pullman cars. I can't imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff?
I know how a steam loco works, I know how a diesel loco works, I konw how air brakes work, I know how ice A/C and steam heat worked on old Pullman cars.
I can't imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff?
Alton Junction
You also have to take into account that it is easier to get a diesel to run properly than a steam engine, just a fact that the fewer moving parts you have, the easier it is to tune up. This is not to say that steam can't run as well or even better than a diesel but it takes more work. It is also requires better trackwork, in general, for steam (more wheels on the track).
I should herewith remind everyone that a MODEL, by DICTIONARY definition is a "miniature REPRESENTATION of something".
It does NOT to be an EXACT copy in scale sized miniaturization of the real 1:1 thing- regardless of whether it is a MODEL of a building/sky scraper or a locomotive!
As I said, if you want something CLOSE to what you want/expect, you WILL BUY what they make if you something..or...anything like it. They figure you will "take it an like it".{OR you will scratch build it.}
Model makers ALSO make "generic models" that COME CLOSE to the many liveries that may have had said model so as to "satisfy everybody".We ALREADY KNOW that.
I have owned 5 minivans in my life, and now they stop making them. I WILL BUY a "SUV" or a "CUV" or a Station wagon Or WHATEVER THEY MANUFACTURE CLOSE TO THE MINIVAN I WANT..ANd the manufacturer of that auto will PROFIT from my decision to "TAKE IT AND LIKE IT", even if I DON'T lIke the vehicle.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
tstage I gravitate towards steam and early diesels of the 30s/40s. Why is that? And why is it that when NKP 2-8-4 #765 comes here to Cuyahoga Valley (from IN) that people - young and old - come out of the woodwork to see her.
Tom,Think of this..I recall the last years of main line steam locomotives in the Columbus,Ohio area and seen brand new GP9s and RS11s..I recall the filth of the 50s and the decaying 60s..I've seen the rebirth of railroads.
Yet,the eras I like is what I call the IPD boxcar era(late 70s) and the mid 90s.
Although I've own some steam locomotives and chased the 611,614,1218,765 and the 2101 and have had passing thought on modeling the 50s I just can't bring myself to modeling steam.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL No offense intended to anyone, but I am amazed at the lack of functional prototype knowledge among modelers today. I know how a steam loco works, I know how a diesel loco works, I konw how air brakes work, I know how ice A/C and steam heat worked on old Pullman cars. I can't imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff? I'm not offended but I totally lack functional prototype knowledge, yet I get along just fine in the hobby, modeling both steam and diesel. Why is it so difficult to imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff? Rich
Rich,
For me that part is half the fun. Here is an example, I have this fleet of ATLANTIC CENTRAL steam locos, they are not just randomly purchased unlettered models with "ATLANTIC CENTRAL" decals applied.
There is a prototypically believable story as to their existence, even down to details like Delta trailing trucks vs Cole trailing trucks, and what driver sizes, wheel arrangements, axles loadings, bell and headlight locations, etc are used.
Real railroads had reasons for all this stuff, reasons usually based on function for their particular operating conditions.
There are reasons why Santa Fe steam locos look so different from B&O locos - I find those reasons very interesting - those reasons go back to how the machine works.
Also, like Tom mentioned, the evolution of the equipment is linked to how it was done in the past. Understanding that helps us to understand why things were done a specific way, on a specific railroad, at a specific time.
All this is true not just of the trains themselves, but about our scenery as well. Architecture, including industrial buildings, has a history based on function. Better modeling comes from understanding function.
In my profession as a Historic Restoration Consultant we study how people lived in the past to better understand why they built houses the way they did back then. There are reasons why Victorian houses are different from houses today - reasons linked to how and why they used them - same theory - that knowledge makes you more able to recreate the past.
And I model the past - September 1954 - to be exact - with a little bit of plausible creative licence - but still very believable even to a very knowledgeable viewer.
BRAKIE tstage I gravitate towards steam and early diesels of the 30s/40s. Why is that? And why is it that when NKP 2-8-4 #765 comes here to Cuyahoga Valley (from IN) that people - young and old - come out of the woodwork to see her. Tom,Think of this..I recall the last years of main line steam locomotives in the Columbus,Ohio area and seen brand new GP9s and RS11s..I recall the filth of the 50s and the decaying 60s..I've seen the rebirth of railroads. Yet,the eras I like is what I call the IPD boxcar era(late 70s) and the mid 90s. Although I've own some steam locomotives and chased the 611,614,1218,765 and the 2101 and have had passing thought on modeling the 50s I just can't bring myself to modeling steam.
And you Larry make my point exactly that what we model is NOT linked to what we saw in our youth, but is rather based on much more complex issues of experiences and interests.
There you go, Larry. So much for polls predicting where the hobby is heading based on age of the participant.
If I were to model the modern diesel era, I'd definitely go with Norfolk Southern. Love the stallion head logo and the white lettering on black reminds me of the NYC.
galaxy I should herewith remind everyone that a MODEL, by DICTIONARY definition is a "miniature REPRESENTATION of something". It does NOT to be an EXACT copy in scale sized miniaturization of the real 1:1 thing- regardless of whether it is a MODEL of a building/sky scraper or a locomotive! As I said, if you want something CLOSE to what you want/expect, you WILL BUY what they make if you something..or...anything like it. They figure you will "take it an like it".{OR you will scratch build it.} Model makers ALSO make "generic models" that COME CLOSE to the many liveries that may have had said model so as to "satisfy everybody".We ALREADY KNOW that. I have owned 5 minivans in my life, and now they stop making them. I WILL BUY a "SUV" or a "CUV" or a Station wagon Or WHATEVER THEY MANUFACTURE CLOSE TO THE MINIVAN I WANT..ANd the manufacturer of that auto will PROFIT from my decision to "TAKE IT AND LIKE IT", even if I DON'T lIke the vehicle.
All true - to a point.
But we still evaluate and choose based on our personal taste and needs.
Mini Vans are really just redesigned station wagons from an era when station wagons had become poorly designed.
SUV's are just high functioning station wagons built on a truck chassis, often with 4 wheel drive.
Personally I never had any use for a mini van, but always drove high fuction station wagons like this:
OR, SUV's like FORD Explorers - now I drive this: Better than any mini van I have seen yet - for my needs. And they can call it anything they want, it's a station wagon to me - so is an explorer. Same with model trains - I evaluate performance and pick what fills my needs - or modify it to do so. Sheldon
OR, SUV's like FORD Explorers - now I drive this:
Better than any mini van I have seen yet - for my needs. And they can call it anything they want, it's a station wagon to me - so is an explorer. Same with model trains - I evaluate performance and pick what fills my needs - or modify it to do so. Sheldon
Better than any mini van I have seen yet - for my needs. And they can call it anything they want, it's a station wagon to me - so is an explorer.
Same with model trains - I evaluate performance and pick what fills my needs - or modify it to do so.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL No offense intended to anyone, but I am amazed at the lack of functional prototype knowledge among modelers today. I know how a steam loco works, I know how a diesel loco works, I konw how air brakes work, I know how ice A/C and steam heat worked on old Pullman cars. I can't imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff? I'm not offended but I totally lack functional prototype knowledge, yet I get along just fine in the hobby, modeling both steam and diesel. Why is it so difficult to imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff? Rich Rich, For me that part is half the fun.
For me that part is half the fun.
For you, but not for everyone.
I have little idea of the inner workings of an internal combustion car, yet I get great pleasure out of driving one. Same for my model railroad layout.
Rich
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL No offense intended to anyone, but I am amazed at the lack of functional prototype knowledge among modelers today. I know how a steam loco works, I know how a diesel loco works, I konw how air brakes work, I know how ice A/C and steam heat worked on old Pullman cars. I can't imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff? I'm not offended but I totally lack functional prototype knowledge, yet I get along just fine in the hobby, modeling both steam and diesel. Why is it so difficult to imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff? Rich Rich, For me that part is half the fun. For you, but not for everyone. I have little idea of the inner workings of an internal combustion car, yet I get great pleasure out of driving one. Same for my model railroad layout. Rich
I understand, but for me......
I have driven cars that I rebuilt/restored from the ground up, touching and assembling with my own hands nearly ever part.
And I live in a 113 year old house I brought back to beauty and function largely with my own hands.
And I run model trains, some of which I assembled from a pile of small parts.
It is a very satisfying experience to turn the key and fire up an engine you built with your own hands, or sleep in building you built, or run a train you created.
Well I don’t know much about steam, especially road specifics…ok couldn’t tell one from the other. But the two loco’s you showed I would say weren’t even the same type.
I admit I didn’t read past page two, and skimmed page three, so if my response is just a replay of say 50 posts, sorry about that.
Why they really do this probably only they can answer. But I’m pretty sure their reasoning is one of these or falls somewhere in between or a combo of some or all (pretty much covered all bases).
A friend of mine runs a restaurant in a small town. His son, who also works there, says he gets many requests for root beer. They do not have root beer and his son says if they’d start carrying it, they’d sell a lot. My friends response was “when you tell them we don’t have root beer, what do they order?” Son says “Pepsi or Mt Dew.” Dad says “buys some other soda I have right? When they stop ordering ( meaning buying) a soda and only ask for water, then I’ll think about root beer.” Same with beer, someone comes in with a request and he doesn’t have it, eventually they settle on what he has. Probably could survive in one or two brands really. Now this is a small town restaurant/bar that is not necessarily indicative of all such establishments, but if asked, they all would probably say the same thing, though maybe to a lesser extent. I know we've all had to choose another profit making beverage sometime. Some may choose water, most will just pick something else.
Another is cost, I’m sure the cost is more to change the line to accommodate any change, both in parts, and labor, downtime etc. May or may not be a lot, but to the company bean counters, hey, could make the difference in which Beemer they get.
When you take the second reason and factor in the first, you get what you have. You see, had you passed up the purchase, and if others did as well because one or two is a shout out to no one, maybe the company would change their way of thinking. But you bought it anyway just as the customer bought a drink when they really wanted something else, because you have the knowledge, ability and talent to change it. Problem is, the company doesn’t see that, or maybe even care at that point. All they see is they sold their product and they got their money and the quarterly sales charts show the thing sold well and apparently the customers are happy with this version so accuracy must not be a factor. Sales, what it takes to sell, and is it worth it to get it to sell. That’s what they care about.
Now all that being said, I agree with you, and I think I understand you to also say this, if not I apologize, I would expect that from the lower priced trainset type units, but from a we’ll say “high end” company, I definitely would have expected more. There are things I would expect in a Ford focus, that I would not on a Lincoln or a Cadillac. Like I said off the bat, they don’t look even close to me so someone in the know would be looking all day pulling their hair out at the differences. PLUS if this was a preorder, waited months even a year to get thinking you’re getting this…whatever it may be, and something so different comes in….I’d be a bit upset.
Just my opinion they’re reasoning may be completely different.
LOVE that Marathon by the way!!!
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL No offense intended to anyone, but I am amazed at the lack of functional prototype knowledge among modelers today. I know how a steam loco works, I know how a diesel loco works, I konw how air brakes work, I know how ice A/C and steam heat worked on old Pullman cars. I can't imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff? I'm not offended but I totally lack functional prototype knowledge, yet I get along just fine in the hobby, modeling both steam and diesel. Why is it so difficult to imagine being in this hobby without knowing that stuff? Rich Rich, For me that part is half the fun. For you, but not for everyone. I have little idea of the inner workings of an internal combustion car, yet I get great pleasure out of driving one. Same for my model railroad layout. Rich I understand, but for me...... I have driven cars that I rebuilt/restored from the ground up, touching and assembling with my own hands nearly ever part. And I live in a 113 year old house I brought back to beauty and function largely with my own hands. And I run model trains, some of which I assembled from a pile of small parts. It is a very satisfying experience to turn the key and fire up an engine you built with your own hands, or sleep in building you built, or run a train you created. Sheldon
rrebell,
I'm not against renovation if it is QUALITY work, but I hate cover up, wham bam, vinyl siding, ruin the architecture remodeling.
Change a building all you want, just do quality work.
Cheap and dirty cover up remodeling methods only reduce the long term value of buildings because it never really lasts very long and makes future renovations more expensive. Causing many buildings to be demolished that could have had much longer lives.
Much of what I do is not "strict" historic preservation, but rather a blend of preserving architecture and style while making it function better for today's life styles. But I assure you it does not involve covering up old work with laminated drywall or vinyl siding or vinyl windows.
We use products like cement board siding, synthetic slate, Azek trim. We install modern electrical, plumbing and HVAC systems, and we do it without ruining rooms with box ins or bulk heads. We restore plaster walls, keep old woodwork, and install quality windows.
We preserve architecture and update for function.
Basically the same thing I did. I did love the dirty coverups though as they yielded me many treasures, we found stained glass windows covered up and brass chandeliers, mine (I used to grab all that stuff to use in my buildings).