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The state of N-scale loco quality in 2013

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  • Member since
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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, April 8, 2013 6:17 AM

gatrhumpy

We put finer detail on these N scale engines and cars, and people will start complaining that they're too delicate or brake easily.

Give me a break.

Some of the HO engines and cars now are delicate to the touch and will break if you sneeze to hard.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by drewsaur on Monday, April 8, 2013 10:47 AM

gatrhumpy

We put finer detail on these N scale engines and cars, and people will start complaining that they're too delicate or brake easily.

Give me a break.

Not for the target audience. If you charge more, you're aiming at a different audience.

HO seems to be doing just fine with more delicate parts, FWIW...

Drew

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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, April 8, 2013 11:48 AM

drewsaur

gatrhumpy

We put finer detail on these N scale engines and cars, and people will start complaining that they're too delicate or brake easily.

Give me a break.

Not for the target audience. If you charge more, you're aiming at a different audience.

HO seems to be doing just fine with more delicate parts, FWIW...

Drew

Drew,That might become one of the understatements of the year.

I'm on several forums and been hearing a lot about how fragile some models are.Geneses ranks up there with its spaghetti thin handrails..Some of Athearn RTR boxcars has stirrups that's not even glued on and one accidentail bump while changing out couplers and off they fall-the first thing I do with these cars is add a tad of super glue to the steps from the inside of the car.There are other brands that has issues as well.I've had grab irons on my P2K Ohio Central GP7 to fall off during normal operation.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by fwright on Monday, April 8, 2013 4:50 PM

drewsaur

I think it's time to start saying it out loud:

I am willing to pay more for more detail and innovation in N-scale locomotives!

Drew

Drew

Without a doubt, you will be paying more.  Whether or not you get the improvements you want is another story.

In HO and HOn3, the cost of Chinese locomotive production has been climbing steadily.  In HOn3, Blackstone is in a quandry as to what to do next according to various sources more informed than I.  A new locomotive instead of a rerun is going to cost $500+ (some say $600+) per copy for the quantities that Blackstone expects they can sell using current standards of detail and performance (among the best in the business).  They are worried they can't sell a minimum production run at that price.  Blackstone cars have doubled in price over the 5-6 years of production from $35 to $70 each.  Locomotives are doing the same.

As you have seen from this thread, some see price as more important than increasing quality, and some (like you) prioritize increased quality over price.

There are always a couple of rather flippant suggestions - but get to the heart of the matter.

1) Become an importer yourself.  Commission the locomotive(s) of your dreams to be built - and be prepared to lose your fortune and shirt should you guess wrong on the salability of what you have built.

2) Bash, detail, or scratch the locomotive of your dreams.  Spend many hours on research and fine model building.  Have the article published, and the production of your dream locomotive will follow shortly.

Another less flippant suggestion is to pick a favorite importer/manufacturer and assist them as a volunteer prototype researcher, market researcher, product promoter and salesman, and/or tester/product analyst.  It helps if you already have an independent reputation for fine modeling.  Through your efforts you become a valued part of the team, and your suggestions have a much greater chance of being implemented rather than just complaining in a forum.

Bottom line is that when you have some skin (time and/or money) in the model locomotive business, you get taken a lot more seriously.  Anybody can be a critic.  But it takes more than criticism to get a product produced.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

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Posted by drewsaur on Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:03 AM

OK so, the timing for this was perfect - HERE's an example of somebody trying something new in N-scale (unfortunately not locomotives, but wow!)

http://www.rapidotrains.com/rapidonewscurrent.html

Wow!

Drew

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:32 AM

drewsaur

OK so, the timing for this was perfect - HERE's an example of somebody trying something new in N-scale (unfortunately not locomotives, but wow!)

http://www.rapidotrains.com/rapidonewscurrent.html

Wow!

Drew

that's nice but it's all canadian roadnames there's nothing wrong with that but I don' model them. 

So we've mostly talked diesel let's talk a bit of steam, N scale could really use a bolster to the number of available steam models. the most popular seem to be 4-8-4's, is there anyway that manufacturers could remake older releases with better detailing and motors? or maybe we could use more transition era F units(like the F3's intermountain is releasing soon) with different schemes. I haven't seen an F unit in GN's BSB scheme that wasn't custom(besides bachmanns shells).

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

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Posted by drewsaur on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 8:03 PM

Burlington Northern #24
that's nice but it's all canadian roadnames there's nothing wrong with that but I don' model them. 

Well, all of that stock was frequently found in US railroads, so it's good for most anybody modeling modern times.

I agree, though, that steam could be improved too. But N steam seems to get more attention than N diesel in terms of detail.

Drew

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 2:18 AM

drewsaur

Burlington Northern #24
that's nice but it's all canadian roadnames there's nothing wrong with that but I don' model them. 

Well, all of that stock was frequently found in US railroads, so it's good for most anybody modeling modern times.

I agree, though, that steam could be improved too. But N steam seems to get more attention than N diesel in terms of detail.

Drew

often times in areas where there is a lot of CP & CN action, out here it's UP and BNSF with the occasional oddball. 

Yes definitely, I feel N scale steam could use a working front coupler.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

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Posted by Lehigh Valley 2089 on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:02 PM

N scale steam already has a working front coupler. I have a Model Power 2-6-0 that has a front coupler. Good thing to, since I'm going to do a lot of switching action. 

The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.

-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:10 PM

none of my bachmanns(all two of them do).

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

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Posted by drewsaur on Friday, January 23, 2015 7:57 PM

I just wanna say...it's 2015, and nothing is better. What a shame!

Drew

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Saturday, January 24, 2015 6:48 AM
And my original opinions changed, BLMA or GMM details are out there.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    April 2003
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 24, 2015 7:50 AM

This may be true for some N scale offerings, but certainly not for all. If you check what Kato is doing nowadays, you will see the difference to way back when! If I look at my European stock, I can´t confirm your statement either. European manufacturers have made a step-up improvemnt in quality and detail in recent years!

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Posted by Uncle_Bob on Saturday, January 24, 2015 8:16 AM

drewsaur

I just wanna say...it's 2015, and nothing is better. What a shame!

Drew

 

Yeah, those Fox Valley SD70ACe's and ES44's really suck when it comes to body detail!  Why, you have to apply the factory-supplied grabirons yourself!  

 

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Posted by Uncle_Bob on Saturday, January 24, 2015 8:48 AM

And yes, I was being sarcastic.

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Posted by Marc_Magnus on Saturday, January 24, 2015 10:42 AM

fwright
 
drewsaur

I think it's time to start saying it out loud:

I am willing to pay more for more detail and innovation in N-scale locomotives!

Drew

 

 

Drew

Without a doubt, you will be paying more.  Whether or not you get the improvements you want is another story.

In HO and HOn3, the cost of Chinese locomotive production has been climbing steadily.  In HOn3, Blackstone is in a quandry as to what to do next according to various sources more informed than I.  A new locomotive instead of a rerun is going to cost $500+ (some say $600+) per copy for the quantities that Blackstone expects they can sell using current standards of detail and performance (among the best in the business).  They are worried they can't sell a minimum production run at that price.  Blackstone cars have doubled in price over the 5-6 years of production from $35 to $70 each.  Locomotives are doing the same.

As you have seen from this thread, some see price as more important than increasing quality, and some (like you) prioritize increased quality over price.

There are always a couple of rather flippant suggestions - but get to the heart of the matter.

1) Become an importer yourself.  Commission the locomotive(s) of your dreams to be built - and be prepared to lose your fortune and shirt should you guess wrong on the salability of what you have built.

2) Bash, detail, or scratch the locomotive of your dreams.  Spend many hours on research and fine model building.  Have the article published, and the production of your dream locomotive will follow shortly.

Another less flippant suggestion is to pick a favorite importer/manufacturer and assist them as a volunteer prototype researcher, market researcher, product promoter and salesman, and/or tester/product analyst.  It helps if you already have an independent reputation for fine modeling.  Through your efforts you become a valued part of the team, and your suggestions have a much greater chance of being implemented rather than just complaining in a forum.

Bottom line is that when you have some skin (time and/or money) in the model locomotive business, you get taken a lot more seriously.  Anybody can be a critic.  But it takes more than criticism to get a product produced.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

 

I am a avid Nscaler whith a big layout empire and modeling N scale since is nearly exist in the 60's

I consider myself like a fine scaler but I kindly say I hate rivet counting modelers, these people are never happy whith the offering, they always have something to critic; I feel this like a non sense and especialy in Nscale where after 30 cm distance, you could'nt really see these tiny details.

These details are important of course, but I agree whith you details are really expensive to produce, and I feel the offering of details of today is in general amazing; see the last run of steam locos.

Mister Tony Koester had made one of his "Trains of Though" about this dilema, between to much or not enough details, Mister Sellios has mentionned he had retired many details from the FSM because they borrowed the sight and the mind of his operators.

As an evidence not all the existing materials from car to locomotives which existed can be produced in scale; The offer of today is nearly complete but some items are missing and will be never produced, but is already true in the other scale.

Even whith CAD help and computer design producing a model is an extremly expensive process and by the days we know, the producer try to not lost to much money.

As an example, years ago in an Arnold Rapido catalog they explained the cost of the production of a small locomotives, which could reach at this time something like 500.000$ without any production, just the study, the construction of the molds and tools needed to produce the models.

And this not include the market study to know if this model could be a winner by the modelist.

In resume it's a lot of money to play whith and sure a difficult market where you are never sure to win back the investment; so we need to have a lot of respect of these peope which take such a risk.

Americans like Europeans have been extremly critics about the production in China, but in fact we need to thanks this production because this has offer excellent models to an affordable price for everybody, and see it, production come back to our countries and...price goes slowly up and up and....

So  be happy whith all the really nice and fine detailled models we have now on the maket.

Most are well detailled and are fine runner and full of electronics, sometimes not perfect, whith some oversized details, but is that the most important, in the whole scenery, when running, nobody can ever see it

I say it's easy to critics the soup we drink, but we like to play whith our small trains anymore.

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Saturday, January 24, 2015 3:08 PM
My Arnold U25C's that I just got have some details.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

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    December 2014
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Posted by BumpyJack68 on Saturday, January 24, 2015 4:58 PM

here is a link that is current about n scale locos.

http://www.spookshow.net/locos.html

Here is an n scale Big Boy manufactured in 2008. Looks good to me and will pull around 80 cars!

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/athearn4884.html

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Posted by Uncle_Bob on Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:54 PM

I'm sorry if I was rude in my earlier post, but it peeves me that there have been all sorts of new cars and locomotives with scale-sized details released by Fox Valley, TrainWorx, BLMA, Bluford Shops, Kato, Exactrail, and Atlas in the last few years, but instead of thanking these manufacturers (and others) for these new products, the OP says that nothing has changed.  What are manufacturers supposed to do, stop selling merchandise that most people find acceptable and only sell cars and engines with prototypical detail parts applied, as established by the Prototype Police?  Every company that did that would probably go out of business pretty fast because of the tremendous expense of bringing all-new products to market without being able to offset those costs by selling older products. 

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Posted by drewsaur on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 7:41 AM

With all due respect to Fox Valley, I don't think their N scale fabrication has advanced the state of the art at all. Their HO scale is another story.

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Posted by drewsaur on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 7:42 AM

Uncle_Bob

What are manufacturers supposed to do, stop selling merchandise that most people find acceptable

Nope. They are supposed to try to come out with a new line of more expensive merchandise, just like Athearn did with Genesis.

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Posted by drewsaur on Friday, June 23, 2017 8:48 PM

Well, here we are a few years later, and I think some good things are finally happening - this is the kind of thing I was hoping for way back when I made my original post:

https://www.scaletrains.com/collections/rivet-counter-n-scale-ge-tier-4-gevo-diesel-locomotive

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Posted by the old train man on Friday, June 23, 2017 11:16 PM

HmmYou know drew,if you wait about 30 or 40 more years you probably wont be able to see the details you speak of.

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