I hear so many times...."I can get it on ebay for less" and so forth. This is quite true in many cases, but today I had a list of goodies I needed to to complete several projects with. Due to the price of fuel, and 62 miles to Gilbert's in Gettysburg, PA, I admit that first I tried to find these items on line..both in stores and in auction. Man...not even close. My list was Pullman green spray, Cal Scale UC brake kits, Grimy Black spray, Flat finish, Gloss finish, modeler's putty, Crystal Clear, ACC accelerator, 2405 brass wire, styrene quarter round strips, 24" grabs, mess of 1/2 oz weights, truck screws, passenger car seats, Labelle 108 oil (the one item offered on ebay), rail zip, and station figures. Everything I found within 5 minutes at the hobby shop and well worth the trip.
POINT: These items are mostly staples that many shops stock as a service for us modelers as there is not much of a profit margin in a tube of putty. The items that would allow a decent profit are the ones sought after on line and often found ...and most likely at a discount. But what happens when the LHS becomes a footnote in history? Where we be able to fill the above and typical shopping list? I fully understand how discounts attract, but I suppose with me and hopefully others service and availability is paramount.
Thank you,Tommy Gilbert for staocking these items.
HZ
Sorry about about left out word, and spelling...I'm old, it's late and college was 52 years ago......plus as my wife, the college professor says....."you're unliterate !!"
Just curious if you live north or south of Gilberts. We might be in the same area. I'm about 35 miles north of his store.
I would love to go to my LHS as opposed to buying things online....if there was one here. My nearest hobby shop is a 4hr round trip and alot of times it's not feasable to make that trip for the 1 or 2 little things I need. We have a hobby lobby in town but that's a joke as far as model train supplies go, and there is a local department store about 15 minutes away that has a large amount of O & HO scale equipment but nothing for N scale. So unless I have a large amount of things to get, it doesn't pay to make the trip & usually end up ordering it.
Michael
Never attempt anything you don't want to explain to the EMT
Howard ZanePOINT: These items are mostly staples that many shops stock as a service for us modelers as there is not much of a profit margin in a tube of putty.
Howard,At the shop I go to I would have to have your list special ordered then make a 52 mile round trip when the order comes in at full price on top of gas,wear and tear on my '96 Buick,lunch and putting up with the nut jobs behind the wheel of their cars and other types of unneeded stress..
Doesn't paint a very pretty picture does it? Its far better for me to order from a on line shop or direct from Walthers..
As far as the demised of the hobby shops..I won't miss 'em as much as others will--how can you miss something you don't have locally?
Even at that if I had a well stock hobby shop across town I would not have the need to make monthly orders for one or two(say) cars,detail parts, paint,magazines and other basic supplies.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I live about 50 miles from my closest hobby shop and about 180 miles from my closest well stocked hobby shop. I chose to live this far from them, as I wanted to live in Northern Minnesota. I have been dealing with Mail Order, then on-line hobby dealers since moving up here, 35 years ago. When I lived in the twin cities, I was approximately 1.5 miles away from an excellent hobby shop. However, even then, I was buying the expensive purchases from Mail Order, as there was so much better savings ,buying from them. For the most part, I've never had large sums of money to spend on my hobbies and need to find the best deals I can, when I decide I need to buy something. I just retired 2 months ago and certainly this fact hasn't increase the amount of fun-money available to me!
Other factors are also involved in why the ancillary hobby products aren't readily available at the local hobby shop any more. The actual modeling portion of this hobby, where model railroaders would buy a kit, or raw materials to scratch build, add details, paint it, buy better parts to put on it, has dropped off considerably. People simply spend more money and buy RTR equipment, now.
Sorry, I simply don't have any suggestions on how to improve the situation for us who still like to "Model" and I don't like the direction things are headed and understand I have done my share to bring this upon myself!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Howard, I don't know about eBay, but you can probably find all of those sprays at M.B. Klein or Hobbylinc.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Hi,
The problem with a good part of the OP's order is shipping. The PO isn't crazy to move paints/oils/sprays. And shipping said items via UPS or Fed ex is costly. Shipping alone would likely pay for a trip to the hobby shop.
A few years ago I went to buy some sprays at an LHS, and he didn't have any. He said the restrictions on them were more than he wanted to deal with....... Seems that today's kiddies like to spray stuff into bags and breathe them, and then of course there are the "taggers"................
Gotta say, given the size of the OP's order, I would have thought an hour drive to the shop would have been worth it - and perhaps even enjoyable.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
mobilman44 Gotta say, given the size of the OP's order, I would have thought an hour drive to the shop would have been worth it - and perhaps even enjoyable.
Time was I would have agreed with that but not today since there's too many nut jobs behind the wheel talking or texting on cell phones..As sad as it is to say even in Bucyrus(pop 13,000) I have 2-3 close calls a month from the inattentive nut jobs behind the wheel.
I need to dig up who the ebay seller is I used, but I found them by accident, they had some Bowser hopper kits I wanted. Turns out they ALSO have a complete stock of Cal Scale and Tichy detail parts - I've struck out at the LHS getting the "D&H" horns from Cal Scale (they happen to be the M3RT1 with bracket that the READING used, thank you), this place had them. I also got various Tichy grabs for another project.
Spray cans of paint are hard to come by online, mainly because technically you cannot just put that in the mail. Scalecoat you can order direct though, and they will ship sprays and bottles.
I've generally found anything else I need at Klein's. The LHS down the street is a HobbyTown, which doesn't have much in trains (unless I want a bachmann train set) but they do usually have a full selection of styrene sheets and strips and such things if I need to pick something up quick. Too expensive to regularly buy large quantities though.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
While I usually buy locomotives used on places like nscaleyardsale (mostly because nobody makes anything I want currently!) I trek down to the LHS every once in a while. It used to be much more L, but they moved several times farther away from my house, making it so I couldn't bike there for a couple hours round trip if I wanted to.
Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296
Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
rrinkerSpray cans of paint are hard to come by online, mainly because technically you cannot just put that in the mail.
I don't have any problems ordering Flo Quil paint in spray cans.It can be mailed but,not by air mail-the pressure supposedly pops the can..
I agree completely with Howard's post.
However, in most of the "it costs too much at the train store" discussions that come up on internet train forums (or rather that other topics degenerate into), every single time I defend the local train shop, and attempt to logically explain all the reasons that said local train shop (doesn't much matter which one we are discussing) has to have the pricing structure that they do, there are those folks who expect them to have M.B. Klein type discount pricing on everything--that if M.B. Klein can sell it cheap, every other train store should be able to do so as well, even if only a mom and pop operation...that apparently every train store out there should have the time, staff, space, materials etc. to sell online and ship rapidly and ridiculously cheaply, in order to support the low prices they wish to see in the store.
I've communicated with way too many people who seem to think they should be able to buy virtually everything: books, detail parts, locomotives, etc. at 40% off all the time. They simply do not grasp the fact that the dealer discount on many books and other items is only 33%.
John
Good morning !
I'm about a 1/2 hour drive from Milwaukee, WI, which is blessed with many LHS's. The chances of finding all the items on Howard's list, or mine, are slim, without going back once the order is in, so I get a lot of stuff on line, plus I keep a list of items for a trip to Walther's, which is where all the locals order from, and is on the NW side of Milwaukee, making it about a 50 minute drive, 1 way for me. I have it rough, hey guys? There is a nice little shop in Burlington, WI, about 10 miles from me, which carries a lot of basic supplies, especially air brush paint. He can order stuff for me and have it as quick as any of the shops in Milwaukee. I do love a trip to Walther's every 3 months or so, as it's kinda of like the mother of all hobby shops around here.
Have a great day! More snow on the way to Southern WI. More time on the layout, where it's always green, and a nice sunny day ! lol.
Mike.
My You Tube
BRAKIE rrinkerSpray cans of paint are hard to come by online, mainly because technically you cannot just put that in the mail. I don't have any problems ordering Flo Quil paint in spray cans.It can be mailed but,not by air mail-the pressure supposedly pops the can..
It can't go Priority Mail, either, they ask me every single time now if I have any volatile chemicals.
Not even perfume can go Priority Mail anymore.
The challenge is that all those items on Howard's shopping list, while so very necessary to many modelers, are not big profit makers for the brick and mortar train store either. They have to sell some engines and freight cars, too, in order to stay in business and to pay for the labor, time, and shelf space to stock all the small stuff.
For that reason, if/when I can personally see and inspect engines and cars at a good train store, if it is an item I need, I'll always try to buy it there first before I go online to search for it. Or rather, I only go online when I'm certain the shops within reasonable distance from me do not have the item.
This of course means I sometimes pay more for engines--but it's worth it to me to know exactly what it is I'm buying and to not have to worry about minor shipping damage that occasionally occurs.
UP 4-12-2 I agree completely with Howard's post. However, in most of the "it costs too much at the train store" discussions that come up on internet train forums (or rather that other topics degenerate into), every single time I defend the local train shop, and attempt to logically explain all the reasons that said local train shop (doesn't much matter which one we are discussing) has to have the pricing structure that they do, there are those folks who expect them to have M.B. Klein type discount pricing on everything--that if M.B. Klein can sell it cheap, every other train store should be able to do so as well, even if only a mom and pop operation...that apparently every train store out there should have the time, staff, space, materials etc. to sell online and ship rapidly and ridiculously cheaply, in order to support the low prices they wish to see in the store. I've communicated with way too many people who seem to think they should be able to buy virtually everything: books, detail parts, locomotives, etc. at 40% off all the time. They simply do not grasp the fact that the dealer discount on many books and other items is only 33%. John
I've got to agree with Howard too. Takes me 45-50 minutes to get to Gilbert's, and there are other train stores nearer to me, however I still make the trip north. The main reason is selection. True, the local guys will order stuff for me, but when you are scratchbuilding a project and you are looking for windows, doors, steam engine parts, etc, stuff you may not see pictured in the Walthers catalog. It's nice to be able to see and feel that part "in the flesh". And he doesn't have it, or it is no longer made, Tommy is always full of advise on how to work around the problem.
Yea, the prices may not be the cheapest, but I won't complain. Not only is the selection great, the hospitality refreshing (Pullman seats for BS'ing) but when you visit you just might learn something if you aren't careful! Ebay, MBK, etc can't touch this. Oh, and for all those "I got to get it off the internet and cheap" guys. I understand economics might be driving this, BUT the day the Mom & Pop stores die off, will be when you can count the days till the hobby dies.
Besides, it gives me an excuse to drop by my son's fraternity house to see how he's wasting my money!!
Karl
NCE über alles!
kbkchoochBUT the day the Mom & Pop stores die off, will be when you can count the days till the hobby dies.
I don't think so not today. 10 years ago I would have agreed..
This is the computer age and even the big chain stores is having a rough time competing with on line sales.Target,Wal-Mart,Miejer,Best Buy among others sell on line as well as in their stores..Its a computerized world we live in where shopping is a click away with no need to leave the house and have the hassle or the dangers of shoping...
I remember when people was worried about the downtown stores closing and moving to the malls in suburbia.There's still plenty of stores downtown.
As far as looking at engines and cars most shops I go to no longer permits the removal of the engines or cars from their box due to the fragile details.
Howard
As someone who lives in area that has no LHS, and with the best, well stocked ones 4 hours away, mail order (ebay or otherwise) is the only feasible recourse. So the rare trip to a good HS is planned to fill the project staples, buy those things that only hands-on will convince you that they will work, etc. I do deal with some very good brick 'n mortar shops for online purchases (MB Klein, Peach Creek (online only now), Little Choo Choo Shop, etc) and am thankful they exist. Will they all go away? No - some will that operate on a small margin, have poor service, etc will of course.
However, if you live reasonably near to a LHS in my view its a good idea to frequent their doors. Its better for the hobby in general, for them and for you as the modeler.
Charles Gartrell
KBchooch (I think Karl Bond) is right on and I do agree that once the LHS is no longer viable, the hobby will begin the fatal decline. Hobby shops today usally are not located in well populated shopping malls due to obvious factors. A retail establishment needs walk -in traffic, but this is now rare today for the local LHS.
The big question is what will bring new folks into the hobby? Model railroad club and private open houses are one answer. Friends already in the hobby...another, and train shows (something I know a little about) are a most definite plus, and I do think that they will remain for decades to come. But they are sporadic at best, and many possible newbies miss and do not attend them. A potential model rail will not be attracted to the hiobby from an on-line site. He has to see and touch items and hear first hand what the hobby is about. Tommy Gilbert's shop in Gettysburg is an excellent example as mentioned by Bond. Model railroading is spoken fluently there and is a language that is easy to pick-up from other model rails and good hobby shop proprietors...as Tommy is!
I do not think the decline will begin as fast as Bond speculates as necessity has always been the mother of invention. Alternate soursces will be found for almost everything, but our ranks will decline as the number and quality of hobby shops dwindle. When I purchase from an LHS, I feel that even though small, I'm making an investment and contribution to the longevity of our hobby. I hope others agree.
well my LHS has the basic things, train sets, rolling stock, track, paint, and scenery material. unfortunately locomotives have to be ordered online. because ordering them through the store would take forever because my LHS waits until they have a "big enough order."
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
BRAKIE ...The stores I go to no longer permit the removal of the engines or cars from their box due to the fragile details.
...The stores I go to no longer permit the removal of the engines or cars from their box due to the fragile details.
Too bad. Guess I'm just very fortunate there. I'm a former employee of one good store, and the others I go to know me well enough to trust me to take items out very carefully, check them out, and then put them back.
It is polite to ask, but I understand that yes, many no longer allow that.
The funny thing is--as soon as a new Genesis engine comes in--I've seen the store employees whip one out of the box and onto the track to try it out, and generally speaking, I'm more careful than most of them (to be sure I don't damage anything).
UP 4-12-2 BRAKIE ...The stores I go to no longer permit the removal of the engines or cars from their box due to the fragile details. Too bad. Guess I'm just very fortunate there. I'm a former employee of one good store, and the others I go to know me well enough to trust me to take items out very carefully, check them out, and then put them back. It is polite to ask, but I understand that yes, many no longer allow that. The funny thing is--as soon as a new Genesis engine comes in--I've seen the store employees whip one out of the box and onto the track to try it out, and generally speaking, I'm more careful than most of them (to be sure I don't damage anything). John
John,I fear that's another hobby shop plus that is sliding into the sunset..
I just got back from the hobby shop in Mansfield-spent around $70.00-including a $22.95 boxcar impulse buy..
I feel kinda good I help the shop out and the two chili dogs and apple pie I had for lunch was delish...A monthly repeat may be in order.
There are three hobby shops nearby. The closest is a Hobbytown type establishment. Another is a train shop only store, and the other is a more general privately owned shop that carries a lot of train items. These last two are about 30 miles from me.
None of these stores are going to stay in business long waiting for me to purchase my infrequent bottle of Conrail blue paint, or carrying a complete stock of Cary or Cal Scale castings waiting for someone to come in and purchase one of the many different items those manufacturers make.
And I guess I'm a bad person because I don't want to pay list price for cars or locomotives (which I don't need anyway) when I can get them for a lot less at train shows. I'm a retiree, so one has to do what one has to do.
I am willing, however, to purchase some of the hobby staples that I occasionally need from these shops. What I find frustrating is the story that some of these shops give for not carrying what I believe should be commonly requested. I believe that the Hobbytown-type store only deals with one distributor. So when I asked for some Ambroid liquid styrene cement, and was willing to have them order it for me, I was told that "they don't make that anymore". Yeah, right. And at the train only shop I asked why they didn't stock Dullcoat in the bottle and was asked "do they still make that?" And heaven help me if I ask them to get me something special........sometimes you don't know if it even ever gets ordered.
The third shop (Randy, I don't know why you don't want to go there) seems to be the most accommodating. They have a good selection of paint, plastic, and stripwood. The owner is willing to get items for you, and is willing to stock items if you suggest that there might be others that might want the same thing (i.e.: Dullcoat).
Concerning internet purchases, I rarely make them. However, it is sometimes difficult to justify not doing so. If I know what I want, and can shop comfortably from my home, that certainly beats wasting two hours just to drive those 30 miles and back. And the shipping charges, if reasonable, are just about equal to the cost of gas for the trip.
I believe train stores and hobby shops in general are no differenent than other businesses .....survival is up to the ability of the owner. I was once a corporate pilot and never made a flight without a copy of MR or RMC in my brain bag. Downtime was not drinking coffee or updating my Jepp charts....always a trip to the nearest hobby shop. During my 18 year gig driving airplanes, I must have visited several hundred hobby shops throughout the USA and overseas. Quite frankly, many I could not understand how they could make to the end of the week. Then there were the good ones, and of course the excellent shops....some still in business today. It is not really the hobby nor is it the economy that is driving so many out of business. There are shops that are trend setters run by folks who know how to run a business. Many have mentioned MB Klein in Maryland who began selling trains from the back of a hardware store in downtown Baltimore....in not the greatest location. That was over 50 years ago. Tommy Gilbert's in Gettysburg is among the finest I have known and he has been around for 5 decades if not more. What is required besides a business sense is knowing the hobby completely and tastes of customers, trends, merchandise, knowing how to buy....and so much more. But also knowing and liking people...especially customers.train
I once owned a shop and it it did quite well...but when an offer comes in for a position paying six times what the store is providing.....then an offer to buy the store...all within two days, it's bye bye time!! I still miss the store.
There is hope!
I guess my position comes from the fact that,(Howard, you can verify this) I am lucky enough to be spoiled with plenty of hobby shops! Yes, I'm spoiled! Honestly, I don't know if I would be as active in the hobby without the shops around. Between Pro Custom Hobbies,The Moose Caboose (personal fav), Mainline Hobby Supply, Catoctin Mountain Hobbies, Tommy Gilbert's, Mailbag Hobby Supply and (God I hate to mention) M.B.Klein's all within an hour of my house, I'm worse than a junkie in a room full of pushers! Then I still get to go to the Great Scale Show 4 times a year! I love to detail engines and build structures, especially from scratch. How you guys do it without all this and not lose interest is beyond me. A lack of parts or raw materials allows time for distraction, doesn't it? Without stores or shows where people can really experience things it's really got to be harder.
We are however, trying out best to utilize all these in converting friends to trains, and keeping the boys away from Playstation and the X box. Taking the grandkids to shows gave Santa the idea this year to present the with a 4x8 of their own. The happiest kid was their Dad!
I guess the best way to keep your local LHS is to "grow" customers for them!
Well, you would have a hard time near me filling that list. Of the 4 closest hobby shops (I'm talking within 50 miles) only 1 is just trains and he stopped carrying paint 2 years ago. The others don't carry railroad paint. You can also skip train parts like grabs and seats. You might find 1 or 2 of the other items, but that's it.
Mostly, they cater to the Lionel crowd, with a little RTR in HO and N. Since I'm in S scale (not AF) they don't have much for me. So I generally order on line and buy at train shows. Even though GSMTS is a 2 1/2 hour drive for me, I try to go once or twice a year, I also go to other train shows within an hours drive of me.
I do however buy parts when I find them in S, so I have a stockpile.
Gilberts is also a 2 1/2 hour drive for me, although I have stopped in there in the past.
Enjoy
Paul