Not sure if this is the correct forum,Looking to purchase a MTH 2-8-2 USRA Mikado that is DCC with proto sound and smoke. Anyone have any knowledge of these with the smoke option, what do they mean by Proto sound and what would be a good price to pay for this unit. The price I was quoted was $399.00
woodman,
This is probably more suitable for the General Discussion forum.
With that said, the Proto-Sound 3.0 is MTH's proprietary DCS decoder. Although it will work on a DC and DCC layout, you need a MTH DCS system to fully utilize and access all the sound functions. MSRP for these is $399.95. You should probably be able to find one discounted if you hunt around a bit.
The MTH smoke units are quite impressive - if you are into that sort of thing. I prefer to keep any smoke units in my steamers turned off.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
If it's the HO one - that's full list price. You can do better, MTH had the for sale themselves for $299.95 at one point.
Proto SOund is their sound system which works on DC< DCC< and their proprietary DCS. DC operation is less than satisfactory, more so that other sound locos, so unless you have DCC or a DCS system, probably not the best choice.
The smoke is good, it's motor driven for high volume and synchronized with the valve motion. Personally I don't like it for more than a brief demonstration because depsite changes in what it's made out of and how the smoke units work, it still ends up leaving residue. Our club does not allow any operating smoke units ont he layout, they must be turned off. They do provide an option for this, as do other brands, usually via a hidden switch - you do NOT want to leave a smoke unit on but run dry, it will burn out the heating unit.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
MTH prefers you buy their DCS system to fully be able to operate their locos, they don't make theirs to "play well with others" when it comes to other DCC systems.
Although I don't own one {and may never} , I have seen just as many complaints posted on here about MTH locos as any other brand out there. SO the higher price DOES NOT mean "better quality".
The sad thing about smoking locos is that the "smoke" leaves a film of oil on the tracks, which is prohibitive to good running of locos and trains.
Also, for those with breathing problems, the "smoke' can be an annoyance.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
I operated MTH steamers with smoke almost exclusively on my home layout for about a year.
The MTH smoke fluid can also be used as a cleaner, and in the open, it evaporates over time such that it leaves no visible film at all--if it sits long enough. I know because I've spilled it on the outside of boilers, and wiped most of the spillage off--then watched as over a month or two it dried off leaving no visible film residue at all on the semi-gloss black paint finishes. (Note that Atlas Conducta Lube and Cleaner electrically conductive oil lubricant also evaporates in the open air--rather quickly--it is also an acceptable track cleaner and helps to improve track current flow in stubborn areas).
I experienced no buildup of film on the track and no noticeable loss of traction--as a matter of fact my track stayed generally cleaner during the year or so of all MTH steam operation than it has since.
So I reject the claims of others regarding the "oily film on track and scenery". I have fine natural finish real cherry paneling in the basement (completed by my father) in basically a satin finish. There is no--zero--oily film on that cherry paneling or on my scenery.
Both MTH and BLI claim their smoke fluid to be safe to breathe, and in the research I was able to do online regarding the ingredients, I found nothing to the contrary. That said, my wife and sons are asthmatics with (officially diagnosed) allergies, and the use of smoking engines in the house is a minor annoyance to her as the smell can permeate the house--but the kids were just fine with it.
According to my favorite store, most customers prefer the MTH Christmas Scent smoke fluid to the regular scent. Others are also available.
(My son subsequently got tired of all steam, so we started buying diesels again).
The MTH engines run very well in even plain DC on my layout. The lights and sounds perform as advertised, and I had no complaints about the MTH engines' operation at all.
However, in just the last couple years, electronic advancements combined with better wheel plating across the board for all manufacturers seem to be improving operation in plain DC mode. I had previously banned all Athearn motive power--including Genesis series diesels--from my layout due to excessive track dirt from electrical arcing between wheels and track. Based on a brand new Athearn Genesis F-7 I just bought, from the late 2010 production, the plating seems to have been revised and the track dirt issue appears to be solved. I also just noticed the latest BLI/Paragon steamers seem to have different wheel plating than before. The newer plating appears to be nickel and possibly better quality than previous.
Respectfully submitted--
John
Our club has banned MTH engines from the layout unless they are the only thing running. We run DC and other engines will barely run as the MTH engines draw too much voltage and amperage as compared to other DC engines.
Rick J
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
MTH locomotives, along with the Intermountain GEVO and some other new or newer product releases, are capable of drawing up to 14 or even 15 volts in plain DC. In Intermountain's case it is done so that sound and non-sound engines can operate together in the same consist (normally that is not possible in plain DC).
One must have a power supply that puts out 0 to 15 volts variable DC to satisfactorily operate these engines in plain DC mode. MRC has some good ones available.
Alternatively, the MRC Sound Controller 2.0, which has a pseudo-DCC mode that allows the user to operate DCC locomotives and control most of the sound functions, etc. could be used to operate those same engines in DCC mode--then one would not need the 15 volts maximum power supply, because DCC mode uses a more constant voltage. (The Sound Controller 2.0 is its own power supply and does not require a secondary supply). However, this will not control the MTH smoke on/off--you'd have to use the switch on the engine to turn the smoke on and off, and I don't know how well it would or would not control the other built in MTH functions.
I prefer to operate commonly available DCC equipped engines in DCC mode with the Sound Controller 2.0, because they run much better than with plain DC, but I do not have an MTH steamer on hand right now to test with the Sound Controller 2.0.
I can say the MTH DCS system is very nice for operating their locomotives and getting all the sound effects at the push of a button--more easily and simply than with any DCC system. It would be better suited for small children to use because it is very simple--but it is a legacy product from the early days of DCC (it was a competing system) and most DCC purists outright hate it as being "inferior". I personally dislike DCC and can appreciate the shear simplicity of DCS or the MRC Sound Controller 2.0 as both seem easier/better for me to live with than DCC (also cheaper as I don't have to buy separate decoders but can retain DC operation on some engines).
Ultimately, it's your railroad and you have to try out and use what you like for yourself. Solicit the advice of your favorite train store. It's their job to help you out with all the pros and cons of each system.
I purchased an MTH Light Mikado when they were on sale last year. I was happy with it at first. The traction tire on the main driver enabled the locomotive to pull 15 cars up my 1.5% helix. When the locomotive "walked" out of its traction tires I went to MTH customer service to purchase new ones. I discovered that MTH customer service for parts is mostly nonexitant. They love to sell you a locomotive but don't expect help if something goes wrong. At least this my experience. I swapped out the traction tire wheel for the regular tread wheel which comes in the box. Now the locomotive would only pull 3 cars and a caboose up the helix. It was tail heavy and the trailing truck spring was extremely stiff to force the front of the locomotive down on the track. The effect was mostly to reduce rail contact on the second, third and fourth drivers. About this time the flywheel started slipping on the motor shaft to the point that the locomotive wouldn't move.
Frustrated, I opened her up and applied ACC to the motor shaft to stop the flywheel slipping. Then, while I thought the smoke effect was neat, I removed the smoke unit and clipped all the wires leaving just the headlight and class light connections. I filled the front of the boiler and smoke box cavity with a lead weight rescued from a BLI light mikado and milled it to fit. I added additional lead weights here and there until the locomotive was "balanced". My MTH Light Mikado now pulls 18 cars up my helix and I am happy with it. I guess I don't miss the smoke effect very much. Would I buy another MTH Mikado? I suppose I would, now that I know what to expect. However, I sure wouldn't pay the current asking price for one!!
Split Reduction
What about the pulling power of these MTH Mikados? Can they handle 10 heavyweight passenger cars (7 by IHC & 3 by Walthers) when equipped with traction tires? Since they are all die cast metal, I think they should do so...
I also heard about problems with the pilot truck derailing and traction tires coming off...anyone can confirm that?
I think the MTH Mikado is really a very nice model, but the MTH customer service is a total catastrophe which really prevents me from purchasing although I´d like to have one...
Well, for that mexican passenger train I wanna model 2-8-2´s are the correct engines and that MTH 2-8-2 would be a good choice for that train!