Lighting

[Anonymous]

I don't seem to be having much luck searching past posts. I have 2 lighting questions.
#1. Regarding swapping out P2K and Athearn bulbs, should I use the "grain of wheat/rice" bulbs, or led's? What is the difference in the installation and/or difficulty, and how is this accomplished.
#2. Any good ideas for eliminating the entire cab from being lit up? Tips and tricks? Kits made just for this purpose?
If you have a source to direct me to, or info somewhere, I would appreciate it. I know I have read some of this stuff before, but now I can't seem to locate any of the info.
Thanks!!
Tim

[Big_Boy_4005]

If you are going to go to the trouble of changing bulb styles, LED's seem like the way to go. As for where to get them and how to wire them I'll leave that part to someone else to answer.

The second question has many solutions. One option is to fit a piece of plastic near the bulb to block the light. If you use the LED, you may not have much light left to block, since the light is more directional toward the tip, and not the sides.

[darth9x9]

Thousands of LEDs can be found at:
Digikey - http://www.digikey.com/
and
Mouser - http://www.mouser.com/

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by enduringexp

I don't seem to be having much luck searching past posts. I have 2 lighting questions.
#1. Regarding swapping out P2K and Athearn bulbs, should I use the "grain of wheat/rice" bulbs, or led's? What is the difference in the installation and/or difficulty, and how is this accomplished.
#2. Any good ideas for eliminating the entire cab from being lit up? Tips and tricks? Kits made just for this purpose?
If you have a source to direct me to, or info somewhere, I would appreciate it. I know I have read some of this stuff before, but now I can't seem to locate any of the info.
Thanks!! - Tim

YOU"LL probably get a lot of different opinions. but....#2. first.

JSR makes a 'snap-in' lighting board for most all Athearns - at $10, a bargain.
You will want (4) 1.4 or 1.5 v 'Grain of Rice' bulbs to fit in the small holes in the shells. 15 Ma's so as not to heat up the plastic. A toothpick dab of Elmers from the inside secures them. Tricks? I twist the wire pairs together.

I get my JSR boards from CABOOSE HOBBIES, Denver.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

If you are going to go to the trouble of changing bulb styles, LED's seem like the way to go. As for where to get them and how to wire them I'll leave that part to someone else to answer.

The second question has many solutions. One option is to fit a piece of plastic near the bulb to block the light. If you use the LED, you may not have much light left to block, since the light is more directional toward the tip, and not the sides.

L.E.Ds are the way to go! The differences are like night and day! Best part of it is that they don't generate heat, so they'll last years! They're only a few dollars apiece. Very affordable. You LHS can order them, you can order them through www.LitcfieldStation.com , or you can go to your local Radio Shack or electronic suppy store and pick them up.

Use the "Warm White" or "Gold White". The catch with the gold white is that when they're in the "off" mode, the lens looks orange. The warm whites look more look a clear, typical headlight.

[jfugate]

Actually, I'll differ with the others and not go with a blanket "LED" answer.

The actual answer is "it depends".

If you want gyralight or mars light functionality, a bulb with a filiment works better. I use Microlight 1.5v bulbs because they are small enough to fit into a headlight housing when you drill it with a #55 drill. Get the ones that are 15 milliamps.

I talked about headlights, among other things, in my DCC clinic I gave in Seattle. You can get a copy on video by going to:

http://model-trains-video.com

Hope that helps!

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Joe,

I always keep an open mind. I'm not an electronics expert, but have been basing my lighting opinions on what I've actually seen installed and perform. Plus again, the heat and lifespan factors.

Could you please tell us though how the performance of the bulb you're inidicating is better. I will be installing Gyra lights in about 5 HO locomotives, so I would like to get it right the first time!

Thanks guy!

[cwclark]

I use 1.5 volt grain of rice bulbs with a circuit that contains a bridge rectifier, a capacitor, a couple of resistors, and a voltage regulator...the unlit cab can be obtained by inserting the grain of rice bulb into a small piece of brass tubing that is glued in the top of the cab facing the locomotive's headlamps. ...here is a website for the circuit wiring http://www.mrollins.com/circuit.html Chuck

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hello Joe,

Could you please tell us though how the performance of the bulb you're inidicating is better. I will be installing Gyra lights in about 5 HO locomotives, so I would like to get it right the first time!

Antonio:

One of the keys with a good gyralight/mars light look is the brightness rise/drop off. A bulb with a filament does the transition smoothly because of the slight delay as it transitions from bright to dim and back. An LED has no "glow transition delay" so the bright/low cycle is sharper and less convincing.

The 1.5v bulb effect actually looks like a headlight in motion (since a gyralight/mars light is a mechanical effect on the prototype) but an LED looks like a stationary bulb going dim and bright because it's just a little too precise. All the DCC decoder manufacturers recommend in their instruction sheets miniature bulbs for headlights with effects instead of an LED for this reason.

Does that explain why bulbs are preferred?

[jfugate]

BTW, if you want to see the effect, go to http://model-trains-video.com and click on previews and watch the Siskiyou Line video preview. You will see the bulbs in action.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE:
Antonio:

One of the keys with a good gyralight/mars light look is the brightness rise/drop off. A bulb with a filament does the transition smoothly because of the slight delay as it transitions from bright to dim and back. An LED has no "glow transition delay" so the bright/low cycle is sharper and less convincing.

The 1.5v bulb effect actually looks like a headlight in motion (since a gyralight/mars light is a mechanical effect on the prototype) but an LED looks like a stationary bulb going dim and bright because it's just a little too precise. All the DCC decoder manufacturers recommend in their instruction sheets miniature bulbs for headlights with effects instead of an LED for this reason. Does that explain why bulbs are preferred?

Thanks Joe! I learned something new! Very good explanation. I definetly want realistic Gyra light effects on my locomotives. I became a "gyra light" fan back in the 70s when I used to watch Amtrak SDP40fs hauling the Florida to New York trains ( I miss those brutes! The Genesis units just don't say "Locomotive" to me). I always thought that the "wobbling" light was a good attention getter, especially at night.

How do you feel about using L.E.Ds for the regular headlights?

Cheers![:D]

[jfugate]

For constant lit headlights, LEDs are preferred for all the reasons you mention.

Cool operating, low current draw, and long life. But they don't do convincing lighting effects that depend on a dim/bright cycle -- for that 1.5v bulbs do the trick nicely.

BTW, the NCE decoder manual has an excellent section on using 1.5v bulbs. A very nice resistor chart, circuit diagram, and instructions. If you go to the NCE site, you can download the manual.

See: http://www.ncedcc.com/catalog1.html

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

For constant lit headlights, LEDs are preferred for all the reasons you mention.

Cool operating, low current draw, and long life. But they don't do convincing lighting effects that depend on a dim/bright cycle -- for that 1.5v bulbs do the trick nicely.

BTW, the NCE decoder manual has an excellent section on using 1.5v bulbs. A very nice resistor chart, circuit diagram, and instructions. If you go to the NCE site, you can download the manual.

See: http://www.ncedcc.com/catalog1.html

Thanks for the links and valuable information! I've saved this thread and the links to a folder that I'll be referring to as a good friend of mine shows me how to install DCC/sound in Athearn and P2K units.[:)][:D][8D][8)][tup]

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Joe,

Talked to a good friend of mine who says your info was very good. He's been performing high quality custom installations in HO locomotives for modelers. [4:-)]
I'll go with the suggestion he gave me.

If a modeler is installing a "Gyra Light" in a very tight, hard to get area [:0] then L.E.Ds may be a good choice as having to change a bulb could become a major chore.[|(] If the area is easily accessible, than the bulbs you've mentioned are the way to go as the "effect" does look more realistic. [swg][tup][:D][8D]

Thanks Joe, 10-4!