Hello: Has anyone had experience with HO Atlas Nickel Silver track outside? We were considering building a miniature layout on a pool deck. It would be exposed to the same elements as a garden layout.
(Understood: The effect on the structures but mainly interested in the effect on the track and the track connectors. The lead wires from the power pack and the power pack would not be left outside)
As always, many thanks.
The plastic ties are going to be the biggest issue. The plastic is not UV-stabilized plastic. You can expect the plastic to degrade (fade pretty severely, become brittle, and lose its strength) with steady exposure to sunlight.
The rail and rail joiners will oxidize more quickly, especially in the humid and chlorine/bromine atmosphere. This will make electrical contact more of a problem.
Even O scale/gauge trains that are not made for outdoor use have proved to be much higher maintenance outside than on any indoor layout.
Fred W
Another thing to consider with HO outdoors is the weight of the cars. They are light enough that a mild wind can knock them over. I found this out when I was building my layout and my son wanted ot run his trains. Well being nice hot weather I didnt want him in the house all day so I brought his loop of track outside. He was having his cars blow to derailed in a mild breeze we had that day. The trackwork was not the cause of the derailments as the track is perminatly mounted to a piece of ply.
Massey
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
You should have no problem with the nickle silver track & rail joiners if you solder most of the joints & the ones you don't solder for expansion have feeders soldered to them. I can't imagine properly weighted HO cars derailing in a breeze. Most train set cars are way under weight & may be subject to a breeze.The only problem would be that ANY debris on the track will cause a derailment. You can buy paint with a UV shield that would probably hold up for a while. may have to recoat every year or so.
HO track outside in full sunlight should last about six months before the ties become so brittle that it literally disentigrates when you touch it.
I didnt think so either Jerry but the wind would cause enough of a wiggle that the cars would derail. not blow over but I doubt that would take too much more to do. These were all Athearn BB kids built just as the kit came, 50' box cars. The trucks were not overly loose either. My son was kept busy even with the derailing :)
Hi,
With all due respect, I think doing an HO "layout" outside is a mistake. The previous mentioned problems with plastic being adversely affected by sunlight, and the lightness of the rolling stock are all factors.
Other negative factors could be the cumulative effect of humidity on the locos innards (maybe not a factor in some places, but a major one in others), the overall delicateness of HO stuff (as compared to #1 gauge), and the fact that HO equipment would be dwarfed in a back yard enviroment.
Of course you also have the "critter factor" - be it insects or birds or cats or whatever............
Sorry to be Mr. Negativity, but I really think an outdoor layout would serve you better if it was a large gauge.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Why don't use just set up a garden railroad on the pool deck?
The larger scale is more conducive to outdoor viewing, and the track is designed for the outdoor elements.
Rich
Alton Junction
Somebody said that HO nickel silver ties would last for six months. Maybe the sun is stronger here in the dessicated desert - mine only lasted six weeks.
IMHO it is possible to build an HO layout to enjoy on your pool deck. Just build an elevated shelter with an ultra-violet (and rain) proof roof. Then, to keep the larger `critters' out, hang hinged shutters. If the shutters have transparent sections you can leave them closed when running if the trains are only going to orbit a closed circuit. As for smaller `critters,' try putting breadcrumbs in your passenger cars - maybe you can pretend the ants are legitimate passengers...
My own plan to build an operator's layout in my walled back yard was done in by a combination of sun that could (and did) ruin plastic (and probably would have melted solder,) oppressive heat and the tornado effect of ordinary local winds. Some of my ideas work out. This one didn't.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - indoors)
Many years ago, there was an article in one of the hobby magazines about an outdoor HO layout in Southern California. As I recall it consisted of a series of boards mounted to fence posts about waist high. They ran from the garage down the fence. There was a small door into the garage where the trains could be run into at night. I think the track was handlaid on wood ties. No scenery, but a couple of building that could be removed.
Good luck
Paul
If you want an outside layout...bite the bullet and spring for a G scale set with UV protected ties on the tracks.
The HO scale ties are NOT UV protected and will become brittle and fall apart. Even spraying them with "uv protective paint" will not help much. Also the Nickel SIlver tracks will get grungy faster.
AS mentioned HO is lightweight and G scale is heavier.
Also the slightest moisture can cause shorting problems esier on HO track.
If YOU DO do an outdoor layout..be SURE to bring all trains inside when done running!!
Here is a listing of G scale stuff to choose from- with more pages available under the G scale section:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/GProducts2.asp?Scale=G&SPECIAL=0
clink on the left side menus for pulldowns...Aristocraft trains and tracks are supposed to the best as far a s I know.
ALSO check out or forum's Garden railways forum for more info, it starts here:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/default.aspx?groupid=7
Good luck!!!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
To all: Thanks, so much for your advice. Have a great Holiday.
Back in the early 80s I had the pleasure of visiting and operating an outdoor HO railroad in the UK - the Daventry Garden Railway by Brian Burchell. This somewhat large and amazing RR was built with then commonly available components - and was exposed to all kinds of weather conditions including rain, snow and ice. He even had a video of plowing snow on the railroad with an HO scale plow! If I remember right he told from time to time he had to replace track components as they wore out, but the expected that as a professional railroader.
While yes plastics will degrade from UV exposure, I would suspect that painting track with something like Krylon Fusion before installation might help prolong their life. Regardless, expect to have to replace things. I'm sure there is much more sage practical advice from those wo model outdoors and it would be work seeking.
Rick
Thanks Rick.
How long does a paper boat last on a pond?
Just my
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
HO outside = bad idea. Been there, done that, won't do it again.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Jeffrey: "Gotcha" thanks.
I have a large indoor HO layout, and a large outdoor garden railroad. Having about 20 years experience with outdoor G gauge, I certainly would NOT recommend trying to build an outdoor layout in HO. Simply too many factors against it. Even with a garden railroad (in Kansas City) I spend more than a month in the spring just getting the railroad cleaned up to operate and then there is the ongoing battle of leaves, weeds, stuff blowing in from elsewhere and track maintenance. I enjoy the garden railroad and watching people's reaction when they visit. But being much smarter today than I was 20 years ago, I would not build another one.
Incidentally the biggest problem is electrical operation. I gave up the third year and went to radio control/battery packs for operation, which is good, but there is that problem of keeping things charged. My track, which is a flex track product, is aluminum code 250 rail in ultra violet treated ties and ballasted with pea gravel. Even then you have a lot of track cleaning, including things like cat poop from feral cats passing through. Track/poop cleaning is really a fun activity for a Saturday afternoon.
Unless you are willing to spend more time removing yard debris, poop, leaves, etc before each running session, I would suggest reconsidering the whole thing.
Bob
British Peco track does have the ties stabilized against UV degradation and can be used outside - A s mentioned before there have been several successful layouts in the UK running outdoors in HO or British OO .
Depending where you are in the US though the sun may be stronger and have correspondingly more UV so it may not last so well there. A bigger problem might be daytime/night-time temperature difference, if you start soldering up the joints you end up with the equivalent of continuously welded rail which needs some sort of expansion joint.
Tom
I might add that you will get a lot of "it should work" in theory, but I would suggest listening to those who have built outdoor garden railroads.
I can't speak for HO but my N-gauge layout was out on my covered patio in western Arizona for 3 yrs...as long as the track is not subjected to direct sunlight, you'd be alright.
As others have said, the plastic ties wouldn't last 6 months in direct sunlight.....
Bob Berger, C.O.O. N-ovation & Northwestern R.R. My patio layout....SEE IT HERE
There's no place like ~/ ;)