Hello all, I haven't been around much this summer but now I'm back and have a strange curiosity. By no means am I trying to offend those with large transition era layouts. They are wonderful. However, I am curious in why MRR tends to only cover small modern (1990-present) layouts. I have to admit, it seems like most contemporary layouts are small. This could be due to the fact that the younger crowd is the most interested so they are not retired. I bring this up because people who aren't retired tend to have less space because of kids and such. Maybe this is true but I still wonder. Why aren't there many BIG (600+ square feet) Layouts? If i am wrong, and I hope I am, why aren't they being featured in MRR???
Six hundred square feet is a basement-sized space; observe the demographics of the past 30 years and you will find that there has been a considerable shift in population from the Northeast and Midwest into the South and Southwest where basements are less common. Therefore 12' X 12' spare bedrooms have become more popular as layout locations.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
You must not be into N-scale as there seems to many large 500 sq ft plus layouts in the N scale magazines.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
I believe there are many reasons to include limited hobby budgets versus the high hobby costs which makes smaller layouts more attractive..I have also notice a growth of modern design switching layouts that focus on super details,sound equipped locomotive and highly detailed freight cars while limiting the amount of track and structures-in fact a lot of structures are scratch built 1/2 buildings and computer enhance building flats along the backdrop and we can also add limited hobby time to that mixture due to work and family time.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
It seems that most of the layouts I encounter in person are transition era to early 1960s too. There is a much smaller pool of layouts (of any size) depicting modern railroading, so less material for the magazines to draw from.
One of the nicer and more ambitious large home layouts with a modern theme is John Parker's BNSF. It's about 3000 square feet worth. See http://www.bnsfrr.net/ .
Rob Spangler
When you read the articles you'll find that a lot of these big layouts are decades in the works. So there hasn't been enough time for folks to get them built. Of course when they do, they won't be the modern era anymore.
Also the transition era being by far the most popular there just aren't that many people in the modern era. It's the same with the 1880's, 1900's, 1920's, and so forth. There are some but not that many.
Enjoy
Paul
Layouts like John Parker's are exactly what I mean. His is amazing. And no I don't mean N scale but if you know of any that are West Coast ish themed let me know. I m focused more on HO scale but Im willing to look at large West Coast layouts.
The comment about decades in the making for the large basement sized layouts is correct. Unless you find someone who has an unlimited budget and doesn't work you probably won't find anyone who builds a magazine quality layout that is basement filling in only a few years.
My Uncles basement sized layout started in the mid-late 80's, and it's only been within the last 5 years that he has been able to get magazine features. Albeit small ones, and not yet in MRR.
Have ya checked out any of the Great Model Railroads videos?????
UPTeen23 Why aren't there many BIG (600+ square feet) Layouts? If i am wrong, and I hope I am, why aren't they being featured in MRR???
Why aren't there many BIG (600+ square feet) Layouts? If i am wrong, and I hope I am, why aren't they being featured in MRR???
UPteen,
I think the points that you've raised are some legitimate reasons why there aren't many large modern layouts. BIG layouts cost BIG money and require BIG space (aka BIG house) and BIG time with a BIG budget to cover the BIG tab. Even a modest layout these days can go into the thousands of dollars. Add kids and other responsibilities and - unless you have someone else build the layout for you - your basement empire is going to take a lonnnnnnng time to come to fruition.
With MR and big modern layouts: They are most likely trying to balance the appeal of the magazine to the mass "budgets" and interests of their clientele. Most modelers are retired and, as you pointed out, interested in the transition periods that they grew up with. Although I'm not retired, my love for trains tends to find pleasure in both steam and early diesel.
Like yourself, that doesn't mean that I can't or don't enjoy a layout that is modeled outside my era. I can still learn many useful techniques and appreciate the artistry of guys like Pelle Soeborg and Lance Mindheim. However, I love the "variety" of locomotives and the modern era just doesn't allow for that - i.e. at least from my perspective. Most SDs all start looking the same after a while.
Also, in the US, there are probably more 4 x 8 layouts that any other configuration. If you are talking European layouts, that would be considered a medium size layout, as most are smaller than that because of lack of space.
And bigger doesn't necessarily mean better. A well-designed small layout can allow you plenty of action and interest that a "not well thought out" large layout lacks. Also, most modern locomotives are six-axle and require the large radii curves to make them both operate well and look good doing it.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
My N scale Golden State Railroad is 12 1/2 by 39 feet. It will include a working hump yard with 10 classification tracks.
Here are the classifiction tracks with the hump in the background.
---------------------
Paul,I'm not so sure considering the number of "modern" cars and locomotives being release if we say 1970-20011 is "modern"...Is there a real cutoff date between "modern" eras? I simply don't know but,realize that is food for thought and a whole topic within its self..
As a observation I've notice a lot of "modern" short line locomotives and cars being offered..
I never really understood that trend unless some of the smaller short lines are being modeled?
Mine is big (1800 sq ft) but set in 1980. So I doubt if you'd call it modern. One of the guys in our round robin has a modern day U.P. layout that is pretty big
http://www.semichops.org/Layouts/BME/layout.html
See ya
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c
BRAKIE Also the transition era being by far the most popular there just aren't that many people in the modern era. It's the same with the 1880's, 1900's, 1920's, and so forth. There are some but not that many. Enjoy Paul --------------------- Paul,I'm not so sure considering the number of "modern" cars and locomotives being release if we say 1970-20011 is "modern"...Is there a real cutoff date between "modern" eras? I simply don't know but,realize that is food for thought and a whole topic within its self.. As a observation I've notice a lot of "modern" short line locomotives and cars being offered.. I never really understood that trend unless some of the smaller short lines are being modeled?
Larry, you may be right if you go from 1970-2011, but the OP was talking 1990-2011. I agree though, once you're past the last of steam, it's hard to define an era. But I think if you take history in smaller chunks of 10-12 years, 1947-1958 is most popular.
UPTeen23 I am curious in why MRR tends to only cover small modern layouts.
I am curious in why MRR tends to only cover small modern layouts.
Because covering a basement-sized modern layout; which would be populated with nothing but six axle wide cabs pulling either unit double stacks, unit coal hoppers, or unit grain hoppers; would be boring.
- Douglas
Doughless UPTeen23: I am curious in why MRR tends to only cover small modern layouts. Because covering a basement-sized modern layout; which would be populated with nothing but six axle wide cabs pulling either unit double stacks, unit coal hoppers, or unit grain hoppers; would be boring.
UPTeen23: I am curious in why MRR tends to only cover small modern layouts.
Doughless: If that is your thoughts on more modern railroading then I can tell you must not do any. So sad.
The unit double stacks, unit coal hoppers, unit tank or unit grain hoppers are what one may see on the mains from ports or mines, but once they get there the trains are broken down and the cars are mixed with other types and sent on their way to subdivisions and branch line yards for distribution to the final destination. Many cars transporting goods will never part of unit trains.
So there My
It´s a strange world we live in!
Many times, the Kalmbach folks have been "accused" of only featuring "big" layouts in MR, now we see the opposite of that.
It could very well be, that, in the times of economic turmoil, there are less big layouts being built, but first of all, Kalmbach relies on reader contributions to fill the monthly issue. So here is a call to all builders/owners of big layouts to write an article about their layout. And one to the ones building small layouts as well!
Add general freights,Amtrak,locals,and reefer trains(UP/CSX),older SD40-2s,GP40-2s,GP38-2s,SW1500sGP15s,MP15s and other 4 axle locomotives then you may be spot on..
There's more to modern railroading then most think..
The beauty of a smaller layout is that it can be expanded to make it "grow up" to a bigger layout.
Many people do not have the space to dedicate to a larger layout. Not everybody has a whole basement/2 car garage/attic/warehouse in which to build a layout.
Many people don't have the money to accomodate a larger layout's expenses.
You can always "build to suit tenant" your layout based on your space.
Also there HAS been a bit of a shift at MRR just to show what can be done with smaller layouts- from 4x8's and up. MAny people complained to MRR they didn't have the space for a 15 foot x 30 foot ginormus layout and "what could be done with a 4x8 or 5x9?"
If you have the space and want to build big...then look at MRR's larger layout plans for ideas and plans.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
BRAKIE Doughless: UPTeen23: I am curious in why MRR tends to only cover small modern layouts. Because covering a basement-sized modern layout; which would be populated with nothing but six axle wide cabs pulling either unit double stacks, unit coal hoppers, or unit grain hoppers; would be boring. Add general freights,Amtrak,locals,and reefer trains(UP/CSX),older SD40-2s,GP40-2s,GP38-2s,SW1500sGP15s,MP15s and other 4 axle locomotives then you may be spot on.. There's more to modern railroading then most think..
Doughless: UPTeen23: I am curious in why MRR tends to only cover small modern layouts. Because covering a basement-sized modern layout; which would be populated with nothing but six axle wide cabs pulling either unit double stacks, unit coal hoppers, or unit grain hoppers; would be boring.
I model modern era in a 35 x 13 space, so I'm not unfamiliar with the ideas. I was just poking fun at how the prototypes have consolidated some of the variety out of railroading relative to the transition era. Variety is still out there, I think it just takes more effort to find it.
Ops, double post.
Doughless BRAKIE: Doughless: UPTeen23: I am curious in why MRR tends to only cover small modern layouts. Because covering a basement-sized modern layout; which would be populated with nothing but six axle wide cabs pulling either unit double stacks, unit coal hoppers, or unit grain hoppers; would be boring. Add general freights,Amtrak,locals,and reefer trains(UP/CSX),older SD40-2s,GP40-2s,GP38-2s,SW1500sGP15s,MP15s and other 4 axle locomotives then you may be spot on.. There's more to modern railroading then most think.. I model modern era in a 35 x 13 space, so I'm not unfamiliar with the ideas. I was just poking fun at how the prototypes have consolidated some of the variety out of railroading relative to the transition era. Variety is still out there, I think it just takes more effort to find it.
BRAKIE: Doughless: UPTeen23: I am curious in why MRR tends to only cover small modern layouts. Because covering a basement-sized modern layout; which would be populated with nothing but six axle wide cabs pulling either unit double stacks, unit coal hoppers, or unit grain hoppers; would be boring. Add general freights,Amtrak,locals,and reefer trains(UP/CSX),older SD40-2s,GP40-2s,GP38-2s,SW1500sGP15s,MP15s and other 4 axle locomotives then you may be spot on.. There's more to modern railroading then most think..
Fun poking accepted.
When I grow up, I want to model a BIG MODERN layout.
And by that, a nice, big layout of a modern class 3 railroad lugginf sotrage cars up to the interchange, and bringing back the switching for the loacl companies. Yep, GP10, SD7s, and Gensets walking 40 car trains of Autoracks and empty hoppers over hill and dale for Detroit, or to be whisked off to the Indiana Rairlaod to feed the hungry needs of Indy Power & Light. And on their way back, they drag down cars bound for a Co-Op, some metal strips for an Armor factory (it's really there, Madison Armor in Indiana), then walking what's left of their train, a few insulated boxcars, a reefer. maybe a trash flat for the restoration crew working on the old cotton mill, down a 6% grade and into the street.
With plenty of room to do the scenery.
-Morgan
TA462 Doughless: UPTeen23: I am curious in why MRR tends to only cover small modern layouts. Because covering a basement-sized modern layout; which would be populated with nothing but six axle wide cabs pulling either unit double stacks, unit coal hoppers, or unit grain hoppers; would be boring. Not if you model the Ontario Northland Railway.
Not if you model the Ontario Northland Railway.
Especially if you're modeling the ONR passenger service Dave!
GP38, F7/9B, ex-GO passenger cars!
A modeler's dream! Pretty much anything goes!
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
When I started in model railroading, I was modeling modern railroads. Of course, modern at the time was SD40s, and GP38s in SR tuxedo and SCL black and yellow. Tried to stay current for a little while, but at first settled into a 77-81 period, but now, mainly due to space limitations, have migrated backward to the 50s.
I have some modern era cars I've collected and they just don't look right on my small HO layout. Because of the room shape, I had to go with fairly tight radius curves 18-24 inches, and short sidings. I can get 4-5 1950's era cars, locomotive, and caboose, 3-4 1980 era cars, or 2 modern cars into that same siding. Even though the trains are basically the same physical length, the one with more cars looks more like a train and offers more switching opportunity. I've even toyed with the idea of an early 1900s layout, but haven't gone there yet. Modern equipment is so large, it's almost like stepping up from one scale to the next in space requirements.
So I'm in the group that believes space limitations in modern houses will limit the number of large layouts of any era out there.
jmbjmb So I'm in the group that believes space limitations in modern houses will limit the number of large layouts of any era out there.
I'm not so sure about this myself. The average square footage of a new single family home in the US has increased from about 1000 in 1950, to 1400 in 1970, to 2700 in 2009 (per one set of stats I Googled, they vary somewhat). At the same time average family size decreased, further increasing square footage per person. The idea of ever-shrinking train rooms has been repeated a lot in the hobby. I wonder what the actual data would show, and whether it could be refined by modeled era.
Doughless Because covering a basement-sized modern layout; which would be populated with nothing but six axle wide cabs pulling either unit double stacks, unit coal hoppers, or unit grain hoppers; would be boring.
I actually don't mind looking at some of the modern era rolling stock. I'm not crazy about unit trains of containers, but there is an interesting variety of hopper cars, gondolas, and tank cars.
My only complaint about the modern era is that none of the locomotive builders make an end cab switcher any more. The new Genset locos are kind of neat looking (although not an end cab type), but where I live it looks like the two major railways have no intentions of buying any.