Oh yeah, that's what this is about why do you think bachmann will or will not make a heisler. i think that they would eventually. i mean, they've made all the engines of Cass EXCEPT their heisler...... but why?
Planning a 1940's logging road in HO scale.
I don't think Bachmann has actually said they won't make a Heisler. But I get your point. I think it's 'cause Rivarossi already made one. Why make something that's already been done? That said, I'd still like them to make one, 'cause it'd be better. The Rivarossi is kinda lame, after all.
But I would have much rather had a nice logging articulated from Bachmann. I finally gave up waiting and bought a really sweet brass 2-6-6-2T (Booth-Kelly #2). It's amazing how small they were--about the size of a 40' boxcar! Also missing way more than still another geared loco is a nice 2-8-2T. Bachmann (who else?) could make it freelance/customizable like the old Tenshodo 0-6-0T (with Kemtron parts).
Now there's a sales opportunity! A freelance tank engine DESIGNED to accept a whole assortment of supplied parts--lotsa stacks, domes, compressors, cylinders, headlights, lead truck, trailing truck......
Bachmann, it can just fall in your lap.
I bought one of those Tenshodo engines. I spent more on the parts than the engine. I still have it. It is a beauty--even has a snow plow pilot!
Ed
There are Heislers, and then there are Heislers. Still awaiting a handsome two-truck version in HO scale.
To date, all plastic geared locomotives in HO have been over-sized or models of extremely large (and rare) prototypes. The closest to a more typical geared lokie was actually Bachmann's 2 truck Climax.
I suspect this happens for 3 reasons - 1) most modelers don't realize how small typical geared steam really was; 2) model railroaders like their engines big; and 3) bigger geared steam models are easier to make in HO and smaller scales.
Bachmann is usually quite careful not to duplicate existing mass-produced models. The Shay was substantially larger than the Roundhouse/MDC version. A Bachmann Heisler would have to be substantially smaller than the Rivarossi instead of bigger to differentiate itself. Which would sell better - the smaller or the bigger Heisler?
Heislers sold in significantly smaller numbers than Shays and Climaxes in the real world. Also, many modelers don't see the side rods and V engine of the Heisler as all that special when compared to the line shafts and side engine of the Shay, or inclined cylinders and jackshaft with counterweights of the later Climax. The Bachmann 45 Ton, with its side rods, doesn't come close to the sales of the 44 Ton - although I think the 45 Ton is the much more interesting model.
my thoughts, Bachmann's choices
Fred W
I would certainly welcome a small 2-T Heisler and would buy a couple. I would also buy a 2-T version of the Bachmann Shay, as despite some gear problems is still a lot better than the Roundhouse Shays.
The answer to the question will depend on how Bachmann feels the small 2T Climax turned out for them. It is a nice loco and they may have sold quite a few, but it developed another gear issue and may not have been regarded as a successful product.
What did they do next? The made a new larger 3T Climax. The extra space gave them room to add a good sound system, with which they can make a little more profit. A larger 2-T or 3-T Heisler would likely be too close to the existing Rivarossi products.
So, the prospects for a small Heisler may not be good, but we can hope.
www.oakhurstrailroad.com
"Oakhurst Railroad" on Facebook
As it ever occurred to you to go to the source and ask. Makes sense to me. Go to the Bachmann site and ask. There is a rep there, you guessed it, The Bach Man is his name.
Never fails to amaze me how many ask a question in forums but it never occurs to them to ask the source.
Ok, some just want to talk and really not interested in an answer. Whatever.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
fwright Heislers sold in significantly smaller numbers than Shays and Climaxes in the real world. ...
Heislers sold in significantly smaller numbers than Shays and Climaxes in the real world.
Something like 625 Heislers were built, about half the number of Climaxes. However, many of the Climaxes were "A" types that looked unlike the types "B" and "C" (with 45-degree cylinders mounted on the loco's sides) we're most familiar with. The class "A"s were built on a flat-car-like body with two cylinders mounted vertically in the center of the loco. "A"s also had a two-speed transmission and could have either vertical or horizontal boilers. They looked like something made in the backshops of logging railroads.
Handsome is as handsome does.
Simply adding a regular tender to a small Heisler will provide plenty of room for speakers, etc. Did I mention that Heislers were significantly faster than Shays and especially Climaxes?
markpierce
I'll take two just like Roaring Camp and Big Trees #2, one standard and one narrow guage.
Oakhurst Railroad Engineer I'll take two just like Roaring Camp and Big Trees #2, one standard and one narrow guage.
That Heisler was #3 for the Westside Lumber Co. Initially built to 3-foot gauge, it was later converted to standard gauge to serve as the sawmill yard switcher. I climbed on the loco in Tuolumne in 1960 when it was standard gauge. Roaring Camp regauged the loco to 3 feet.
The weiner man Oh yeah, that's what this is about why do you think bachmann will or will not make a heisler. i think that they would eventually. i mean, they've made all the engines of Cass EXCEPT their heisler...... but why?
Responding as straight forwardly as possible, the answer would be: "questionable demand."
The time to have introduced a new Heisler might have been about 25 years ago, when there was a great ground swell of interest in logging and narrow gauge model railroading.
Today, interest has long since shifted back to large (and extremely large) mainline motive power and more conventional layouts. The little Climaxes and Shays issued in recent years probably sold fairly well by virtue of their unusual, exposed, "monkey motion" drive systems. Such appeals to collectors as much, or even more, than to operators. I see no such aspects, or features, in Heislers that would motivate the collector element and with the low production history of the prototype Heisler; they probably don't have a very large following/interest expressed by operators.
Simply put, it would be taking a big chance to create an accurate Heisler today. In addition, it is unlikely that the model would have room for a sound chip without sacrificing badly needed weight for traction. And without sound, how would the manufacturer be able to justify the probable $350-$400 price tag commanded by many of the latest models?
With the current state of the hobby and the economy, I would regard it as a foolish move to go the Hiesler route currently.
CNJ831
CNJ, please don't offer excuses/rationals for manufacturers to not offer a good-looking Heisler. We can always hope (or have to find a Westside brass model.)
I'm happy with my AHM/Rivarossi Heisler, but it would be nice to see another quality model released. The main issue with Rivarossi's model is the truck gear ratio, which is a 5.5:1 worm and gear rather than the proper 2:1 bevel gearing, making the engine rotate a lot faster than it should to get the same speeds.
A small Heisler is unlikely right now I would think, but we may see one eventually. I mean, who would've thought we would have a U50B diesel in HO scale plastic!? There is a market for small geared steam though. Otherwise, Keystone wouldn't still be making their tiny Shay kit.
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i actually did look up the scenic railroad that has one (i forgot), and i agree, that would be cool. still a heisler in ho that isn't 20-30 years old would be nice. i get that we all love BIG engines, but a small heisler or a big heisler would both be awesome. so, i just think it's cause there's a deep, dark secret between bachmann and heiler locomotive works...... Ha ha ha ha!!!!
I would like them to resolve the gear issues with the present locos before the dive into another. Really don't want another logging loco with broken gears.
not to hijack the thread but if someone did come out with a nice ho scale heisler, i might be their first customer.
back when i was a kid, growing up in north Memphis (that was when kids in north Memphis lived long enough to grow up) forest products, a charcoal plant, out on Chelsea Ave. had 2 steam locomotived that siwtched the plant. a 2-6-2 tank engine and a little heisler.
the regular engineer was a nice old guy named Mr. Childress and he lived about a block and a half from my home. somettimes he had to work on Saturdays for a couple of hours and his boss would let him bring me out to ride around on the engine for an hour or so.
does anyone else out there remember the Forest Products operation from back in the early or mid 60's?
grizlump
markpierce CNJ, please don't offer excuses/rationals for manufacturers to not offer a good-looking Heisler. We can always hope (or have to find a Westside brass model.)
Hope may spring eternal...but I've been hoping for an accurate (or even approximate) 4-6-0, non-brass, camelback locomotive in HO since the 1970's without results, this in spite of the fact that such camelbacks outnumbered Heislers by 10, or 20, to one in the prototype. Nuff said in regards to hoping!
CNJ831 markpierce: CNJ, please don't offer excuses/rationals for manufacturers to not offer a good-looking Heisler. We can always hope (or have to find a Westside brass model.) Hope may spring eternal...but I've been hoping for an accurate (or even approximate) 4-6-0, non-brass, camelback locomotive in HO since the 1970's without results, this in spite of the fact that such camelbacks outnumbered Heislers by 10, or 20, to one in the prototype. Nuff said in regards to hoping! CNJ831
markpierce: CNJ, please don't offer excuses/rationals for manufacturers to not offer a good-looking Heisler. We can always hope (or have to find a Westside brass model.)
GAHHHHH!!!!!!! west side brass?! expensive. and even though camelbacks DID outnumber heilsers then how many are actually left now? 3? point in case