According to the latest ad from Micro-Mark, this is the last day to buy Bachmann locomotives from them before the Bachmann price increase on April 1st. Looks like Walthers isn't alone raising their prices. With oil prices increasing, and the shipping costs, plastic costs, etc. that go with it, we should expect that other manufacturers will soon follow suit, as well.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Well, since they started installing DCC on everything whether you want it or not I can't really say it will bother me that much as I already have most everything of theirs I want now anyhow, but it doesn't surprise me any.
Might just as well kick us in the ribs while they have us down.......who's next? At least they won't affect the secondary market that much, love that NOS merchandise!!
Mark
WGAS
They can increase the price all they want. I never buy anything for MSRP. I go by the street price and if it is low enough i make a purchase or wait. I never pre-order anything also.
The Favorite Spot on Ebay just had a sale last week on Bachmann listings at an additional 10% off there already low price.
There are also plenty of Athearn and Atlas items being discounted.
Bob
Forty Niner Well, since they started installing DCC on everything whether you want it or not I can't really say it will bother me that much as I already have most everything of theirs I want now anyhow, but it doesn't surprise me any. Might just as well kick us in the ribs while they have us down.......who's next? At least they won't affect the secondary market that much, love that NOS merchandise!! Mark WGAS
Mark, Nobody likes price increases, especially those who who do the increasing, it is never "comfortable". But given the current economic pressures of oil prices, rising wages in China, poor economic policy and high taxes from our government and others, price increases are going to be unavoidable. Many of these issues we have discussed before and really don't belong on this forum.
And like you, I'm big bargin shopper of NOS and have posted a number of times about how I have built a large loco and rolling stock fleet very economicly. That's only going to change slightly, and like you I have the largest percentage of what I'm interested in having.
BUT, your opening comment deserves a reply. Bachmann does now sell most of their locomotive product with DCC "onboard" as they call it - BUT, in most cases they provide jumpers for the easy removal of the decoder - AND, more importantly the addition of basic DCC decoders did NOT result in any measurable increase in Bachmann prices beyond what would have been normal inflationary increases over the last 5-10 years anyway. In fact some Bachmann items went down in retail price AFTER the inclusion of decoders - 2-8-0's in particular.
So to somehow blame Bachmann for "forcing" DCC on us, and/or using DCC as an excuse for higher prices is unfair. Forcing DCC would be Broadway Limited who can't make up their mind how to offer their products. First sound and DCC only, then "stealth" DC versions added for while, then "Blueline" DC versions with that anoying sound, now back to DCC, sound and smoke (in most locos) for everything. That's a brand I don't buy much of unless I find it cheap on the secondary market. Because unless it's an old "stealth", its getting reqwired to "stealth" DC anyway.
And, those pesky decoders I remove from those Bachmann locos,well they sell very well on Ebay, further lowing my "cost of ownership" for those Bachmann locos. I have a list of 5 or 6 more Bachmann locos I may want, and only about 10 more total if the right stuff shows up at the right price. At that point the ATLANTIC CENTRAL roster will be complete at about 140 pieces. The last 15 years was the perfect time build a great model loco fleet, the next 15 might not be so good.
Bachmann products will more than likely continue to be offered at same deep discounts below the MSRP, so any increase in MSRP will only have a small effect on the street prices offered by the big Bachmann dealers. For those looking for Bachmann at good prices I suggest Star Hobby in Annapolis, MD, Peach Creek Shops in Laurel, MD, and the usual suspects, The Favorite Spot, Train World, etc. - the deals are still out there - look around.
Sheldon
we want increase of wages, so the price will go up too.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
It will be interesting to see if increasing MSRP has an impact on the secondary market? Perhaps not right away, but surely it will eventually?
I just picked up my 2nd Bachmann Spectrum, a UP Consolidation, used and cheap, and I have to say I am really impressed with the thing. I feel a bit guilty having maligned Bachmann and somewhat turned my back on the brand as a result of a somewhat poor standard line purchased early on in my MRR hobby return. The tender can use a bit more weight, but it was easy to convert to DCC (sorry Sheldon) and runs as smooth as any much higher priced BLI that I own.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Medina1128 According to the latest ad from Micro-Mark, this is the last day to buy Bachmann locomotives from them before the Bachmann price increase on April 1st. Looks like Walthers isn't alone raising their prices.
According to the latest ad from Micro-Mark, this is the last day to buy Bachmann locomotives from them before the Bachmann price increase on April 1st. Looks like Walthers isn't alone raising their prices.
Yep, it happens...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
simon1966 It will be interesting to see if increasing MSRP has an impact on the secondary market? Perhaps not right away, but surely it will eventually? I just picked up my 2nd Bachmann Spectrum, a UP Consolidation, used and cheap, and I have to say I am really impressed with the thing. I feel a bit guilty having maligned Bachmann and somewhat turned my back on the brand as a result of a somewhat poor standard line purchased early on in my MRR hobby return. The tender can use a bit more weight, but it was easy to convert to DCC (sorry Sheldon) and runs as smooth as any much higher priced BLI that I own.
Simon, don't be sorry, I'm not as anti DCC as I'm made out to be, I'm just "pro choice". While I don't do DCC at home, I belong to round robin and operate on 5 DCC layouts on a regular basis.
And yes, I am a Bachmann fan. They are not perfect, but none of these companies are.
Yes the tender needs weight - virtually all Bachmann tenders do - a small price to pay for such nice locos at such low prices.
The following thread I posted a while back may be of interest, it covers a lot stuff I have done to easily improve Bachmann locos.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/181314.aspx
Of all the Bachmann locos, one of the best is the USRA Heavy Mountain. They are smooth runners and great pullers and need little or no tweaking, but I do have a few tips for them as well.
I have sizable fleets of the the 2-8-0's, 4-8-2,s, 2-6-6-2's and the 2-8-4 Berkshires, most of which I have converted to freelance heavy 2-8-2's. They all run great and very few have cost more than $100 (they are all silent and DC).
Yes the standard line has had its weak points in the past, but even most of those have been retooled and are much improved. Except for lacking a few details, the new regular line 4-8-2 is Spectrum quality and the tender is sound ready for you guys who like that sort of thing.
And not all the Spectrum models are perfect, the older K4's and the N&W J's can take a modelers touch to be optimum performers - but for the price if you have some skills - I don't see how you can beat them.
I have nine pieces of BLI/PCM - two needed major rebuilding out of the box, two others needed several mods to run well - ALL cost much more, even those that came without souind/DCC.
Well, you've done it now Sheldon, you've got me crying big "puppy dog" tears for maligning a fine Chinese company like Bachmann. ;-}
WGAS ? (not me!!)
Medina1128 According to the latest ad from Micro-Mark, this is the last day to buy Bachmann locomotives from them before the Bachmann price increase on April 1st. Looks like Walthers isn't alone raising their prices. With oil prices increasing, and the shipping costs, plastic costs, etc. that go with it, we should expect that other manufacturers will soon follow suit, as well.
The industry I am in we are being told by our venders is that plastic prices are increasing any where from eight percent to eleven percent. Metal prices are increasing but we do not know the impact of that yet. How much increase is Bachmann indicating they will increase their price ? I bet it is more than ten percent.
Labor and materials costs in China are going up as their standard of living improves, as well as increased transportation costs and new environmental regulations take effect.
I have read some reports indicating that some manufacturers are looking to cheaper labor sources outside China and are preparing to move their production elsewhere. Those who have been modelers any time at all should recall the different places from which our models have originated over the years as the manufacturers pull up stakes and move to cheaper labor sources -- Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Korea, Indonesia, China, etc.
Transportation costs may actually drive some of them back to the U.S.
Back to Philadelphia! or even Compton! Fire up the presses,If we dont do something fast this very delicate market will vanish. This hobby must remain affordable or it will not reach the future children of whom we need for this hobby to survive!
DavidP Back to Philadelphia! or even Compton! Fire up the presses,If we dont do something fast this very delicate market will vanish. This hobby must remain affordable or it will not reach the future children of whom we need for this hobby to survive!
But Sir!!! We can't "fire up the presses!!! We gave them all to the Chinese!!!!
Mark ;-]
come on guys, try to see the up side to this. it helps keep the riff-raff out of the hobby.
grizlump
We've had a decade or so of bargain-priced trains. It's a direct result of the transfer of most of our manufacturing in the hobby to China. To some extent, it's also because of the "free trade" movement, which eliminates tariffs and keeps import prices low. (And yes, it moves jobs out of the country, too.) And the global recession has reduced the demand for oil.
Now, we've got a triple-whammy of higher oil prices (affecting both plastic and shipping costs,) a higher standard of living in China resulting in wage pressure there, and a declining dollar vs. the yuan.
Take a look at the new structures being produced by Walthers. They seem simpler and less detailed than earlier Cornerstone offerings, and certainly they don't come up to the fine casting we've come to expect from DPM kits. But then, look at the prices, which were announced earlier in the year. These new kits are priced like mid-range Cornerstone kits, but they are little more than 4 walls and a roof. I'm guessing that Walthers built all these cost increases in from the beginning on those.
When I was a kid, I was a real space cadet. Now, I model the past. Now that the future is here, I'm not so sure I like it all that much.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
This happens every year. The Rant never changes.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Several manufacturers have increased prices.
Why should Bachmann be any different?
The cost of oil for plastics is going up, the economy is going down.
That is what happens when that happens.
We WILL survive!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Some people mentioned the MSRP. I think that is a joke, a made-up number to make people feel better about paying the prices that the manufacturer actually wanted them to pay from the get-go.
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler
Colorado_Mac Some people mentioned the MSRP. I think that is a joke, a made-up number to make people feel better about paying the prices that the manufacturer actually wanted them to pay from the get-go.
"made up number" - yes and no. Are the retail prices from some companies inflated? Yes. Are they just "made up"? Not exactly. In most cases the retail prices actually control the wholesale prices.
The manufacturers set retail prices based on a number of factors, mainly the cost to produce the product, plus normal expected profit margins for themselves, distributors and retailers.
BUT, distributors have been largely cut out of the picture in most cases, so the discounts we enjoy are the money that the didstributor would have made.
In Bachmann's case, the "American" part of the company is owned by the Chinnese part of the company, so they are willing to make a little less at each level in return for higher overall volume.
But, they set their retail prices as though that was not true, then give larger discounts to retailers and distributors buying from them, who in turn give bigger discounts to us to get us to buy plenty of it.
Fact is there are some simple sets of numbers that all businesses follow to be successfull. Few retail businesses selling these types of goods have ever made it by making much less than a 35% gross profit, so what we pay is based on what the manufacturer charges and what the retailer needs to make.
And again, almost all of the discounting we enjoy is the result of most dealers, especially those on the web or with big operations, buying most products direct from the manufacturers and giving us what used to be the distributors profit.
I ran a train department in a hobby shop years ago, in the late 70's and early 80's. Only a few retailers werebig enough to meet the purchasing requirements of the manufacturers. So most LHS bought most of what they sold from three or four distributors who sent a salesman around every other week or so. Today that is all gone. There are only a few "distributors" and most of them are also Manufacturers themselves (Walthers, Horizon, Bowser are all examples). Discounts to dealers have changed and discounting to customers is expected. It was not that way years ago.
The bad thing about these lower prices is that in the old days, with more people making more money on each item, everyone was willing to hold on to inventory and wait until someone needed/wanted it. There were seldom and "closeout" sales at any level. An Athearn F7 was considered money in the bank - be you a retailer or a distributor, you did not lower the price because someone would want it sooner or later - at the price you were asking.
And while there were less products, the product thar was out there had a known "value" and even the few dealers who discounted kept those discounts small 10%-20%.
Models were still made in "batches" just like today, but distributors and dealers sat on them at full price making them "last" until the next batch was made. Creating more of a sense that suff was almost always available. Those of us inside the business knew Athearn was currently out of this or that, but since we had some on the shelves, and we were not lowering the prices, it did not matter.
Was it better than or better now, who knows, it surely is different now. And I think it is discouraging to new people that the product they like may be hard to get because it is "sold out" and that prices are so up and down.
Model train stores use to be places that an inventory of suppplies you needed to build a model railroad. Everything from cars and locos to track, structures, scenery, trucks, couplers, kits of all kinds, detail parts, repair parts, wiring, and more - not just order takers for "limited" production runs of high priced RTR models.
Now, much of what the hobby shop use to carry, is sold mail order or at train shows directly by its manufacturer as the demand for lower prices and pressures of the economy and banking industry make it impossible for retailers to make enough profit to actually keep inventory on hand.
But what do I know, I'v just been self employed most of my life and have some little trains without brains.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Colorado_Mac: Some people mentioned the MSRP. I think that is a joke, a made-up number to make people feel better about paying the prices that the manufacturer actually wanted them to pay from the get-go. "made up number" - yes and no. Are the retail prices from some companies inflated? Yes. Are they just "made up"? Not exactly. In most cases the retail prices actually control the wholesale prices.
Colorado_Mac: Some people mentioned the MSRP. I think that is a joke, a made-up number to make people feel better about paying the prices that the manufacturer actually wanted them to pay from the get-go.
In Bachmann's case, the retail price is most assuredly obtained by a proctologist with a flashlight.
Name another model railroad distributor that sets a price only to have big mail order retailers immediately knocking it down by 50%. Kato? Altas? Athearn? Even old Irv didn't give basement dealers the markdown Bachmann gives certain resellers. There are very few examples of any producer of consumer products that works this way.
Milepost 266.2 ATLANTIC CENTRAL: Colorado_Mac: Some people mentioned the MSRP. I think that is a joke, a made-up number to make people feel better about paying the prices that the manufacturer actually wanted them to pay from the get-go. "made up number" - yes and no. Are the retail prices from some companies inflated? Yes. Are they just "made up"? Not exactly. In most cases the retail prices actually control the wholesale prices. In Bachmann's case, the retail price is most assuredly obtained by a proctologist with a flashlight. Name another model railroad distributor that sets a price only to have big mail order retailers immediately knocking it down by 50%. Kato? Altas? Athearn? Even old Irv didn't give basement dealers the markdown Bachmann gives certain resellers. There are very few examples of any producer of consumer products that works this way.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: Colorado_Mac: Some people mentioned the MSRP. I think that is a joke, a made-up number to make people feel better about paying the prices that the manufacturer actually wanted them to pay from the get-go. "made up number" - yes and no. Are the retail prices from some companies inflated? Yes. Are they just "made up"? Not exactly. In most cases the retail prices actually control the wholesale prices.
True, those other brands are typically only discounted the 20%-25% that would have been the "distributor" cut. Bachmann does have an "extra" 20% or so built in to their retails, but they base their retails on other similar products - then give that extra to the dealer/distributor - many of which are willing to pass it on to us.
Bachmann's parent company is likely the largest single "player" in this market, and makes product for a number of their competitors (like Atlas) as well as a number of other "toy" industries. They have the volume edge like no one else in this business.
At least with Bachmann, the deep discounts are there everyday, from the first day the product hits our shores - unlike cash strapped companies like Broadway who screw over their dealers by selling product at one price when its new, then dumping the rest to get their cash out of it. That undermines the dealers ablilty to get a fair price and make a profit, and it lowers the "value" of the product in the market place.
The other estabished brands seldom ever "dump" product. Broadway is the king of that bad business model. I know that Bachmann can be had for 35%-45% off, so that's what I'll pay. Athearn and others I know to expect only 20%-25%. Broadway I don't buy unless its 40% off, because I know at some point some of it will get dumped and be retailed at that price, even thought "new release" discounts are only 20%-25%.
Maybe some people don't care if they get taken advantage of in that way, good for them. I find it offensive, way more offensive than Bachmanns inflated retails and everyday deep discounts.