Hi all. I'm starting my very first layout and have hit a wall. Can anyone help me find an HO 4-4-0 American, wood burner, preferably diamond stack, with sound and smoke?
Are they available anywhere? I'm amazed such an iconic part of US RR history eludes me.
Welcome!
A 4-4-0 is pretty small - getting DCC/Sound and a working smokestack may push the technology! Right now, Bachmann/Spectrum and Athearn/Roundhouse are the only real players for these small engines - You can get them with DCC/Sound. Usually smoke is considered a 'toy' thing and never really looks like the real thing. Plus, the smoke fluid gets on everything after it settles. It seems to be a big thing with the Lionel crowd.
Bachmann has several models - 2 in their standard line(Not real good runners) and no DCC/Sound. They also have a more modern 4-4-0 in their Spectrum line that can be had with DCC/Sound. By the way, DCC is the command control system used by lot's of modelers. the DCC decoder in these units will operate on straight DC as well.
Athearn has a former MDC/Roundhouse 4-4-0 as well, and it can be had with DCC/Sound in it.
Myself,
I have and old Mantua/Tyco 'General' that has a Cary conversion boiler on it. It can barely pull itself up a grade. You find out real fast about the limitations of small engines!
Jim Bernier
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
There are not any good running models that im aware of that are wood load on them.
The only 4-4-0 that I now that have wood loads are Bachmann's Stander line and they dont run good.
The Bachmann standard 4-4-0 can be made to run very well. The main issue is the poor electrical pickup, which is from 4 tender wheels and 3 engine wheels. Giving the tender all wheel pickup improves operation a lot, and replacing the tender wheels with Intermountain 28" wheels makes it look and run even better. The newer ones have a decent motor, but the old ones need a motor replacement (easy enough). If you can solder, glue, and use a file, all of this is easy. And you come out with a nice looking, nice running 4-4-0. I'm not quite sure, but it might be possible to fit an N scale sound decoder inside.
_________________________________________________________________
Not enough room for a Micro sound decoder. A fellow named Harold Minkowitz had a page on it but gave it up as not practical.
Harold site is gone again and he is coming up with completely new stuff, not model railroad. I copied his pages but the info belongs to Harold. Harold cannot stay consistent and he has some good model railroad ideas.
He has fined tuned the Bachmann old time 4-4-0 with tender drive.
I have put a small non sound decoder in a couple Bachmann' locos, a Mantua General and IHC old time 4-4-0 but a lot of fine tuning is required. A Digitrax DZ125 decoder would work as would a small TCS decoder.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Thanks all. I appreciate the help.
I'm bummed on the replies though. It seems to me such an important icon of American Railroading would have better representation. Guess I'll have to re-think my plans and start over.
Also, I've heard many say what was said here about the standard Bachman line. How can they continue to sell product that doesn't work?
I wasn't aware smoke was considered "toy". I'm still learning the differences between "toy trains" and "model railroads". Ahhhh, the joys of being a newbie - LOL.
Thanks again -
Thanks Jim -
I went to the Athearn web site and could not find any 4-4-0 information. Is that an old model I have to find on the secondary market? Or is it one that hasn't been released yet?
It would seem to this uninformed neophite that if they can build N scale and Z scale products that work, that the larger HO shouldn't have that many limitations. Thanks for pointing out that logic doesn't always work in the real world.
Since I don't have room for O scale, I guess my plans to model a civil war layout have to be changed. BooHoo.
I use a Bachmann that is modified so that all the tender wheels pick up and added some pick upon the engine. Also added a bigger flywheel. It runs pretty good now. Oh and I added a headlight. I will put DCC in it soon. But sound may be an issue and I've added sound to a lot of locos. Since it has a balloon stack, maybe there?
I have heard that there will be some coming out for the civil war 150th??
Richard
Fun Senior Citizen Thanks all. I appreciate the help. I'm bummed on the replies though. It seems to me such an important icon of American Railroading would have better representation. Guess I'll have to re-think my plans and start over.
Basically the main player offer what sells. There probably aren't too many people looking for very old time period loco's. Most people look for what they've been exposed to in life. This is why you see mostly 20th century to current loco's.
Springfield PA
Hamltnblue Basically the main player offer what sells. There probably aren't too many people looking for very old time period loco's.
Basically the main player offer what sells. There probably aren't too many people looking for very old time period loco's.
Since none of the main players have come out with new cars in the wood car era in over 40 years, its no suprise they don't sell much. If the last 1950's era cars produced were Athearn blue box cars from the 1970s, nobody would be modeling the 1950's either.
Most people look for what they've been exposed to in life. This is why you see mostly 20th century to current loco's.
4-4-0's ARE 20th century locomotives. They were still being made up to WW1 and ran to the end of steam.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
The Athearn/Roundhouse are 1900 era and later like the Spectrum 4-4-0 and 4-6-0.. I have all of them. The Roundhouse 2-8-0 is identical in size to the 4-4-0 and 2-6-0. They are good runners and very nice with sound.
If you have the bucks, you can get a beautiful brass 4-4-0, circa 1875.
Thanks again, Jim. I found the Roundhouse link. Seems they're all discontinued, but at least I know there is something out there for me to search for.
"The Game's Afoot."
Thanks - yes, there are some 4-4-0 Americans made around the turn of the century, but I believe they were called 4-4-0 American (Modern).
Seems like I might wind up with a "fantasy" version of what I wanted to build. How would a "Big Boy" look at a Civil War camp - :)
You might find some on the shelf at some online shops with a Google search. Maybe ebay.
Some might be on the next slow boat from China.
I've been ModelRailroading for long enough to know the difference between toy and model. Smoke would be considered prototypical if you were modeling a steam era. we just had our show and when we added smoke to the Y6b alot of modelers complimented us on it. BOYS TOYS ARE TRAIN JOYS.
NickyB
Here's some links of 4-4-0's on the Nicholas Smith site that has several in stock. They even have the spectrum version with sound:
http://www.nicholassmithtrains.com/store/product/37824/BAC-MA-%26-PA-AMERICAN-4-4-0-%234/
http://www.nicholassmithtrains.com/store/product/38130/BAC-MA-%26-PA-AMERICAN-4-4-0-%235/
http://www.nicholassmithtrains.com/store/product/40235/BAC-MA%26PA-4-4-0-%236-DCC-SOUND/
http://www.nicholassmithtrains.com/store/product/37297/BAC-PRR-4-4-0-AMERICAN/
Make sure they say Tsunami sound. There may be some old stock and it will say DCC sound on board and not say Tsunami. Those are the first with MRC sound. I have had one of those with the MRC sound. Not very good is why Athearn switched to Tsunami.
They do come with a couple traction tires but the tires are the flat type, not the old O ring type tires. They pull quite well and have at wheels on the tender with pickups.
The diagrams of the locos are on the HP Seeker site so you can see what the insides are like. Look for the 4-4-0, 2-6-0 and 2-8-0,
http://www.hoseeker.net/mdcmiscellaneous.html
Thanks to everyone for the great help!
Hamltnblue and Richg1998 - you guys are super and sent me in the right direction. I finally purchased a 4-4-0!
It's not exactly what I wanted, but I've realized that's not available now. However, this is close enough for now and if I find EXACTLY what I want later, I can always upgrade.
Here's what I bought -
Fun Senior Citizen Thanks to everyone for the great help! Hamltnblue and Richg1998 - you guys are super and sent me in the right direction. I finally purchased a 4-4-0! It's not exactly what I wanted, but I've realized that's not available now. However, this is close enough for now and if I find EXACTLY what I want later, I can always upgrade. Here's what I bought - Listed on the Bachmann site as "new". Bachmann Spectrum #80128. It has the Soundtraxx Tsunami sound and even a wood tender load. It lists retail at $475 and I found it (and ordered) at Model Train Stuff.com for $199. If I could impose a little more on forum readers - could you check out this model and comment on it. Also, any experiences with Model Train Stuff.com would be appreciated. (just trying to avoid buyer's remorse) Thanks again for all in this forum for your patience, help and comradeship.
Not a bad deal. That company I have bought from.
I just got the Spectrum 4-6-0 with Tsunami sound from another source. Go to the SoundTraxx site and download the Manual for the Bachmann steam.
http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/index.php
No one calls out the differences.
As I told you, I have the Spectrum 4-4-0 and also a Spectrum 4-6-0 that came DCC ready a couple years ago. I put my own Tsunami in them.
Be advised, the Tsunami for my decoders I put in has a few more features than the Spectrum Tsunami on board locos.
Both Athearn and Bachmann have SoundTraxx cut out a few features which is not a big deal unless you are a rivet counter.
Thanks - am downloading it now.
all 77 pages - LOL