Maybe I read too much, but I am totally confused. Being new I have no Idea where to start or what to start with. E-Z track, Flex track, track with or without roadbed. Cork or no cork. To DCC or not to DCC, which DCC, different couplers from different manufactures. All to confusing. Here's what I know so far. I'm working on HO size, about 6' x 17', so I believe I have enough space for now and that is where it all ends. Any help would be well appreciated.
Thanks all
Ok,ok, calm down adn take a deep breath!
DOne?
GOod. Now. let's start at the beginning...reading is good. We encourage all new commers to READ READ READ. SO you are off to a good start.
Ask your first question here and go from there...
SO your first question is probably about track, right? ASk away...
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Hello, Dale, and welcome.
Just about everything you can ponder in the hobby comes down to personal choice. There are almost no "shoulds", but there are tons of "coulds". So, EZ-Track is fast, but it limits you in terms of the possible track configurations because the various sections are fixed in both length and radius of curvature. It is good stuff, but it is expensive, and the turnouts do need some tampering and adjustment to get them to work reliably. You won't need the cork or any other roadbed if using any of the plastic base rail lengths such as Unitrack or EZ-Track. But it might be useful as a sound barrier below them if you are going to lay the lengths directly atop plywood or extruded insulation foam. They can be noisy. Personally, I would find a carpet installation service and ask them if they have some waste strips of vinyl underlay. There is a commercial product that is yellow and about 1/8" thick that should be perfect. Same with DC and DCC. If you ask me for my preference, it would strongly fall in the court of DCC. It is simpler in wiring for small layouts, and once you get the hang of programming decoders and operating them, it becomes second nature. To get the same flexibility of operations in DC, you need more complicated wiring and switches.
Flex track, to me, is cheaper and it gives you more freedom to make the type of layout you'd like. Yes, it isn't as simple as shoving lengths of EZ-Track or Unitrack together, but it ain't exactly rocket science neither. It just takes a desire to learn, some flush cut nippers or cutters, a couple of small needle files, some metal joiners, and as many feet of flextrack as you'll need...plus some turnouts.
Crandell
Dale,First model railroading is a simple or as complex as you want to make it.Its not exactly rocket science
Its your call.
Track..Atlas track and switches are the most popular.Use flex track because you will have less rail joints which *could* lead to electrical power lost to your locomotive.Use "sectional track" as needed for small pieces of track-you will still have the same amount of rail joint regardless if you use(say) a 3" piece of sectional track or cut a 3" piece from a piece of flex.Here's the rub..You now have a short piece of flex track that if use may lead to cutting another piece which can lead to waste and as we know its to expensive to waste.
Roadbed: Use cork..If modeling a urban industrial branch then forget any roadbed.
Couplers..No question there Use KD #5 or #148 or any of the "scale" coupler.
DCC or DC..Only you can make that choice.Both will get the job done.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
With any hobby there are lots of suppliers and lots of different levels of skill.
Track:
Track comes in four basic groups.
Sectional track ; preassembled track in small segments that connect together. Lowest tech entry level track.
Pre-ballasted sectional track: Preassembled track in small segments that connect together but has a ballast section included. Normally has some for of locking mechanism to keep the sections together and higher end stuff has improved electrical contacts. Ranges from the entry level (Bachmann) to the high end (Kato). Originally designed for setting up a railroad on a carpeted floor.
Flex track : Preassembled track in 3 ft segments that can be bent to any curve. Must be cut to length. Combines with sectional switches. Used by the majority of medium to upper skill level modelers.
Handlaid track : Rail, ties and spikes are purchased individually and the track is assembled much the way real track is assembled with the rail spiked to wooden ties. Some solder the rails to PC board ties. Used by medium to high skill level modelers.
Model trains run on electricity supplied through the rails. The more joints in the rail the more opportunities for a bad connection and poor performance. That is the major drawback of sectional track and some preballasted sectional track. That's why many modelers use flex track. The rails are 3 feet long so there is a joint every 36 inches as oppesed to a joint every 9 inches. Plus many modelers solder some or all of the rails together for better alignment and electrical reliability.
Section and preballasted sectional track also come in fixed lengths and radii. So there is some limitations on the track plan. The higher end prebalasted track such as Kato has a much larger availability of different radii. Flex track and handlaid track have minimal limitations on the design. The track is not the barrier to the design, the ability of the rolling stock to negoiate the plan is the limiting factor.
So which track you choose depends on how much freedom (and risk) you are willing to take, and how much skill you wish to attain. Want to throw something down on a table in an afternoon with minial if any tools, sectional or preballasted sectional track will do that for you. Want more freedom to custom design the track alignments to suit your plans, flex track or hndlaid will do that for you. Want to develop craftsmanship and the challenge of building the track "from the ground up", then handlaying may be where you want to go.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
DaleM Maybe I read too much, but I am totally confused. Being new I have no Idea where to start or what to start with. E-Z track, Flex track, track with or without roadbed. Cork or no cork. To DCC or not to DCC, which DCC, different couplers from different manufactures. All to confusing. Here's what I know so far. I'm working on HO size, about 6' x 17', so I believe I have enough space for now and that is where it all ends. Any help would be well appreciated. Thanks all
1. For track, I'd start with one of the track-with-roadbed "click track" systems. One of the most difficult things you'll find in model railroading is working with cork roadbed and flextrack. I would recommend Kato Unitrack. It's code 83 nickel-silver track and works very well. BTW it's not just for beginners, next year will be my 40th year in model railroading and I'm using Unitrack on my layout (currently under construction).
2. Couplers - the standard is the metal Kadee No.5. Many companies make plastic copies (which are often used on ready to run engine and cars) but many of us have found that they aren't that great and end up switching them out for Kadees.
3. DCC vs. DC - many new engines have "dual" decoders that will work on DC or DCC, so if you start with DC you can later add DCC command control without needing to change anything. If you decide to start with DCC, there are several good moderately priced starter sets available from Digitrax, MRC, NCE and others. Just choose one that is expandable and has the options you'll need (like the ability to program engines).
As far as locomotives, it's tempting to want to buy "one of everything" right away. I'd try getting just one or two locomotives, but perhaps spend a little more to get engines with sound factory equipped.
WOW, That's a good start. Thanks for all the good advice and rapid responses. So here's what I've decided since reading: DCC, I believe NCE has a good starter set and the ability to expand. Trackbed should be something that will adsorb vibration but not so soft either. Flexible track system, that makes sense. Couplers, will I have to purchase the same Train manufacture, or can the couplers be mounted on any? Again thanks for all the help
Dale...
Welcome and hope you had a Merry Chrstmas!
My advice to you, is to sit down, with a pencil and some paper, and write down, what you want to accomplish with the model railroad you want to build.
If you are new, I would try to keep things simple - you can always change add or improve to wahat you already have down the road.
You don't need to do or have everything at once...take your time and set basic goals, accomplishing them one at a time.
After you write down your notes, I'd make some sketches of roughly the size and shape of the room you have to build in and then start to visualize how and where you want your track to position.
Simple graph paper, available at most office or school supply stores, is a great starting point.
This will allow you to 'scale' down your drawing using the squares as deminsional increments - i.e, each small square = 4 sq inches, etc.
I'd draw a outline where my benchwork will be and then you'll be able to sketch a track plan.
This is just a point of departure and something to get you started.
Have you purchased any track or power supplies yet?
If not, and you're planning to go with DCC, you may want to start out with DCC from the get-go.
The initial investment is a little pricey, but this is one area you do not want to skimp on, so just bite the bullit- you don't need the top-of -the-line, system either, but you want to be able to have access to the NMRA Compliant 28 function control - Both Digitrax and NCE make very good products and Digitrax probably has the largest available add-on accessories.
Both systems are easy to use, my personal prference being Digitrax, mainly because it's so expandable.
The second biggest investment and probably your first consideration after a track plan, is the track itself.
There are basically two types: Ready to Run sectional track that allows you all kinds of possible configurations(there are many track plan books avaialble by Atlas and Kato, that give you easy track plans to build), the KATO brand comes with a ballasted base and adds an element of realism for the beginner.
Atlas offer both with or w/o ballasted bases.
The other type of track is the flexible or 'Flex-track' as it is known by.
As the name implies, it is a flaxibletrack that allows you to create whatever curve or radii you desire, for a given area, but requires a little more skill, tools and work to install.
I hope this gives you some starting point ideas and will be of help.
If there is anythin else I could recommend, you can contact me via PM on this forum.
Good luck with your project!
HF1
Dale,
Are you a scientist or mathematician, perhaps? If you're reading tons of articles looking for "right" answers, you've come to the wrong hobby. There are hundreds of ways of doing things in model railroading, and there's seldom any method that is invariably better than the others or right and wrong. There are often tradeoffs between cost and effort, although many times the cheap, homemade solution works just as well and costs 10% what the hobby-shop knick-knack costs.
You will eventually find a set of techniques and products that you prefer, usually because you find them best for your particular situation (limited budget, beginner-level modelling skills, whatever). The more you read, the more ideas you will have to try, until you find the one that works for you.
Track is definitely one of those areas where cost, realism, and effort required trade off. Better is a realtive thing. Yes, some look more realistic, but they're more expensive, and you can improve the realism of cheap stuff pretty well by painting and weathering. Brass and steel track is dirt cheap, but it oxidizes easily and so requires frequent cleaning.
The reliability of your layout will ultimately depend more on the care you invest setting it up than the type of track that you use.
For the DCC debate... I was in the DC camp until about 3 years ago, mainly because I thought I would be spending about $1000 to convert my layout and locomotives. It turned out I was alble to do it for less than $250. The most important thing for me is the ability to leave trains on the layout without having to worry about electrically isolating them.
The two most important things to do at this stage are two keep reading -- but with an eye to discovering all the possible alternatives rather than discovering the One True Answer -- and to have a willingness to experiment and do over if necessary.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Lots of good tips here but the nice thing about starting out this time of year is it's also when clubs have open houses. Post what city/state you're in and also google model railroad clubs by state and you'll be sure to find a few.
At the open houses you'll be able to get plenty of good ideas and talk face to face with seasoned hobbiest.
Springfield PA
I would use flextrack over EZ track because you can bend flextrack to any radius whereas EZ track has a fixed radius and the plastic roadbed amplifies the noise of the train instead of deadening it like cork. My tip would have the radius on the main no sharper than 22" so you can run 6 axle diesels and passenger trains. With DCC you can activate locomotives sounds with the push of a button instead of flicking the direction switch which you would have to do with DC. In my area, Digitrax is the most used DCC system. The Digitrax beginner sets are fairly affordable.
The Lone Geep
Lone Geep
\
I'd really like to know where this "myth" that wiring for DC is more complicated than wiring for DCC got started?
Wiring for DC, run 2 wires to the track...........DUH.
Now that's complicated...........
As with anything in life, you can "make" it as complicated or as simple as you wish but I really can't see what's more simple than buying a $50.00 power pack and hooking 2 wires to the track can be?
As for switches, 100% of the switches out there are already set up for DC, but you have to specitfy if you want them DCC compatible.
That argurment about DCC isn't any more expensive than DC operation or not as much just doesn't hold water. If you like DCC then fine, but let the guy get his trains "running" first before you cloud his eyes with the DC VS DCC issue.
Just because one person has DCC doesn't mean it's what all the rest of us should have. I realize the push is on very hard to get us all on the DCC boat, as to why I have my own opinions on that subject but in the end it all becomes a matter of our money in someone else's pocket.
Mark
Forty Niner I'd really like to know where this "myth" that wiring for DC is more complicated than wiring for DCC got started? Wiring for DC, run 2 wires to the track...........DUH. Now that's complicated........... As with anything in life, you can "make" it as complicated or as simple as you wish but I really can't see what's more simple than buying a $50.00 power pack and hooking 2 wires to the track can be? As for switches, 100% of the switches out there are already set up for DC, but you have to specitfy if you want them DCC compatible. That argurment about DCC isn't any more expensive than DC operation or not as much just doesn't hold water. If you like DCC then fine, but let the guy get his trains "running" first before you cloud his eyes with the DC VS DCC issue. Just because one person has DCC doesn't mean it's what all the rest of us should have. I realize the push is on very hard to get us all on the DCC boat, as to why I have my own opinions on that subject but in the end it all becomes a matter of our money in someone else's pocket. Mark
Mark, all arguments in favor of DCC for beginners are based on a number of "assumptions" you and I likely don't share with many of our fellow modelers.
Those assumptions include:
The modeler plans to run more than train at once, right from the start, regardless of how large or small the layout is.
The modeler likes, wants and will choose to afford onboard sound.
The modeler is focused on the operational idea of being the engineer, blowing the whistle/horn, ringing the bell, turning the headlights on/off, etc.
The modeler would prefer to "program" something rather than "build" something - be it a model or a control system.
The modeler lacks any basic knowledge of electrical circuits, but is "comfortable" with electronic black box "gagets" like his cell phone, I-pod, Blackberry, GPS, etc.
If all/most these assumptions are true, then the new modeler should choose DCC.
IF, the new modeler lacks the knowledge to even evaluate these choices/aspects of the hobby, then the simple loop with two wires and a DC power pack may be a better starting point - until he understands the implications of his choices.
Mark, rest assured that we will be laughed at and ostracized for even suggesting that these assumptions could be incorrect or not "desired" by the new modeler.
Dispite the fact that all information suggests that at least half, and maybe 75% of us still use DC.
Surely, if the new modeler comes to embrace the goals to which DCC is a good end, he should go in that direction, but, if he would be well advised to get all the facts and learn more about the hobby before commiting to any of its more expensive aspects.
But what do I know, I 'm just a hick with a pickup, some guns, who's been playing with trains for 40 years.
Sheldon
Welcome to the forums and model railroading.
You are right, there are many questions to ask (yourself and others) and you have come to the right place to get some guidance toward those answers. Remember, it's your railroad, you can do with it what you want. All the advice you get is how other folks have mastered similar situations. You will have to try different methods and see which works best for you. You will also find that what works well on one part of your layout may not be the best on another part.
As mentioned above reading will help you begin to sort things out. Your skill level, your level of desire for exact prototypical or "good enough," finincial situation, do you want continuous running or a point to point, with a lot of operating possibilities, all these things will factor into your decisions.
You have a space. Can you walk around the outside of it, are there doors and windows to be concidered. Most folks choose an era and a location, not necessary if you choose not to worry about it.
Sit back, relax, enjoy. If you have a train, set it up and let it run while you are reading. It's theropeutic. I may not even be in the same room, but to walk in and find it chugging around makes me want to do some more. When you have gotten a little knowledge, ask some questions and the folks here will be more than glad to give you answers.
Have fun,
A note about DC wiring. It is much more complicated if you set up to run multiple trains. I've seen old club wiring left over from the DC days and it's typically a rats nest of wires.
On basic layouts DC is practically the same.
Forty Niner ... Just because one person has DCC doesn't mean it's what all the rest of us should have. I realize the push is on very hard to get us all on the DCC boat, ... Mark
...
Just because one person has DCC doesn't mean it's what all the rest of us should have. I realize the push is on very hard to get us all on the DCC boat, ...
Did anyone actually claim that the asker "should" opt for DCC? I'll have to go back and read all those posts now to find out who the culprit is.
[Edit - Didn't see any such claim, and I read them all.]
DC can be stupid simple...two wires and crank the throttle. But, not if the person would like to run two engines prototypically as if they were independent machines run for different tasks by different engineers. As soon as you want to add a second locomotive and not have it chase the other when the voltage is applied to the rails, you begin to enter a considerable phase of complexity for DC wiring. DCC frees the user from this complexity...albeit with a complexity of its own. Fortunately, the brains behind DCC were friendly and thoughtful enough to hide the complexity by confining it to the internal wizardry. All the DCC user has to do is hook up the same two wires as for the simple DC system. But he will not contend with the elephant trunk-to-tail motion that two or more engines must do if no other provisions (complexity) are added.
Yup, not suprisingly you're right Sheldon!
As for the amount of DCC users, anybody remember those yellow full page ads by some sort of DCC Dealers Association? At the bottom of the page in very small print they clearly stated that 80% of all model railroad layouts were DC only, I suspect that those figures came from one of the Model Railroader surveys. But again, that would only reflect the people who "responded" to the survey, I for one never bother with them.
P.S. The last time I saw one of those ads was only about a year or so ago.
Here is what I would say: I once tried sectional ballasted track, and both aspects, sectional and ballasted, eventually ruined the layout (made it look bad enough to warrant a restart). If I were you, I would use the traditional cork roadbed and flextrack. It takes a few tries to get used to, but the initial tries wont be bad enough that you cant put on the layout. Here is the first piece of flextrack I ever laid:
Not to bad, isnt it? Versus this:
Which does not look good, and cannot be salvaged by regular ballasting.
~G4
19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.