Well, for my first big, long-term project I decided to model a train that I thought would be fairly easy to tackle: Western Pacific's California Zephyr. I was planning on putting it together bit by bit, collecting the necessary cars and locomotives as I found them. It doesn't matter what road name a car or locomotive may have because I plan on doing the painting and decorating myself. There's plenty of info out there about WP's CZ for me to have a rough idea of what I need to do, but I've run into a few roadblocks:
-I was able to get the decals for the cars without any problems whatsoever, but for the life of me I can't find decals for the f-units. I'd like model the f7a followed by two b units but there doesn't seem to be any decals out there for the f7 passenger scheme. The closest thing I've found was a freight scheme that has the WP logo I need, but the red wings and orange stripes on the nose and sides are still a problem. Does anyone have any suggestions?
-I have an Athearn f7a (still hunting for b-units) and I've started picking up detail parts. I got the lazer cut windows for both the a and b units without any problems. At my lhs I found a snow plow pilot from details west that was being clearanced so I grabbed it. I did some research and found several f7's under WP colors with this type of pilot, including a few that seemed to be painted in passenger colors, but I also found several that had the pilot that my athearn shell was molded with. I personally prefer the snow plow pilot, but would it be faithful to the prototype f7's used on the cz?
-I'm also having trouble figuring out which horns to mount on the top of the locomotive. My shell has the simple black Athearn horns, but I've seen pictures of WP f7's with those big multi-tone horns. I like the look of those, but again, would it be correct to have them?
I appreciate any help that you guys can give me. After searching the internet for a considerable amount of time I ended up with more questions than answers.
Microscale 87-26 has the decals you need for the F-units. As to the horns that depends on the year you are modeling. The early years will have the horns as on the Athearn units. As time went by you will see the Nathan 5-chime unit. So it depends on the time frame you are modeling. I don't recall seeing a snowplow on the passenger F7 units.
Just a question, are you trying to model the WP CZ with existing models you have or can you purchase models too? The reason I say this is that both Intermountain and Athearn make a WP painted FP7A which is the correct F unit to pull the WP CZ from the early 1950's to the end of operations in 1970. The typical power set was an FP7A followed by two F3B units or an F7B/F3B set. At the very beginning WP used F3A's for the first couple years.
Original power until WP purchased the FP7A's:
F3A/F3B/F3B
then:
FP7A/F7B/F3B orFP7A/F3B/F3B
I am not aware of an ordinary F7A ever pulling the WP CZ, although there may have been an exception due to a breakdown forcing a substitution. You know the old saying, never say never.
The passenger set to follow depends on the time period modeled but included 11 or 12 passenger car throughout the 1950's typically:
1 baggage, 3 dome-coaches, 1 dome lounge, 1 diner, 1 5-6 sleeper, 3 6-10 sleepers, 1 16 section sleeper and 1 dome-observation.
The 16 section sleeper was ahead of the last 6-10 sleeper/transcon sleeper and they were pulled at the end of the 1950's and converted into 48 seat flat top coaches and re-inserted in the train around 1963/64 as needed, in front of the dome-coaches.
I have never seen a snow plow on a WP F unit pulling the CZ ever and I've looked at quite a few photo's and have some video's that show the WP CZ as well. I'm pretty sure the F units never had a plow.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
A few years ago, I purchased a factory -sealed Broadway Limited 13- car WP passenger car set and the Precision Craft Models, matching F3A-B-B set to go with the train, as a Christmas present to myself.
The cars are lighted, including the rear observation car and drumhead.
It is a beautiful train and I've been told that it really looks great running on various club layouts I've been to, with it.
I recently consigned that set, as economic times have forced me to eliminate and/or limit my roster to only 'necessary' equipment pertaining to my layout.
There were not many of the complete factory sets that came in the big Black Presentation Box and I doubt I'll ever be able to find a set in the future to replace it, sadly.
I wish you the best of luck in your aquisition of elements to make this train complete and as detailed as the one I had.
Merry Christmas.
HF1
Heritagefleet1 A few years ago, I purchased a factory -sealed Broadway Limited 13- car WP passenger car set and the Precision Craft Models, matching F3A-B-B set to go with the train, as a Christmas present to myself. The cars are lighted, including the rear observation car and drumhead. It is a beautiful train and I've been told that it really looks great running on various club layouts I've been to, with it. I recently consigned that set, as economic times have forced me to eliminate and/or limit my roster to only 'necessary' equipment pertaining to my layout. There were not many of the complete factory sets that came in the big Black Presentation Box and I doubt I'll ever be able to find a set in the future to replace it, sadly. HF1
I understand times are tough. It doesn't hurt that the BLI CZ cars are now selling for well above retail price so you should get a profit return on your investment at least. I see BLI CZ cars listed for $99-130 each and the MSRP was around $65 each.
I expect there will be opportunities to pick up BLI CZ cars in the future. Was the boxed WP set all WP cars? In reality the CZ train sets were a mix of WP/CB&Q/D&RGW owned cars anyway.
Thanks a lot for your guys' help. This was a big reason I decided to join this forum; everyone always seems to have really good answers to give.
I was looking at the differences between the f7 and the fp7 and f3 and it looks to me like it would be a lot easier to convert my f7 into an f3 than it would be to convert it to an fp7. I've been able to get some really good pictures of the 3 f7s that WP had on the Zephyr and it looks like the biggest change I have to make is replaced the horizontal air intake grilles with the "chicken wire" ones on the f3s. Does anyone know how I could make these or is my best bet finding some kind of photo etched detail part?
Is there any reason you simply don't just get an FP7 of F3? Athearn Genesis makes a lovely FP7 and Intermountains is nice also. Stewart/Bowser and Athearn both offer F3A's.
The set I'm consigning, was the 13 car WP set -they also offered the DRG&W Zephyr and the CB&Q versions as well. The DRG&W had the smallest contibution of cars, but from what I have read and understand, these trains were changed out with the respective cars at each point where one host railroad handed off to another.
Anyway, the set is a complete train, as they were originally consisted, including the observation.
I have the matching PRR B/L car that was a run-through contribution to the Zephyr, from the Broadway Limited, at Chicago via the CB&Q.
I hate to give it up and know I'll never find that complete set again -especially in the presentation box.
There were not many made that way, by BLI.
Thanks,
CB&Q/WP/D&RGW initially bought 6 complete sets of the train. CB&Q had 3 sets, WP had 2 sets(minus 1 car), and D&RGW had 1 set(plus 1 car). This was based on milage over the route. CB&Q later bought additional cars on their own. The cars were 'mixed' in the trains over time. Each railroad supplied their own engines over their section of the route. The CB&Q bought 3 ABA sets of phase II F3's as the original power between Chicago and Denver. They later used E units(2-3 in MU). The D&RGW used ABA sets of PA's, but went to ABBA sets of F's quite fast. These were used between Denver and Salt Lake City. The WP bought ABB sets of F3's and later bought FP7's. These were used between Salt Lake City and Oakland.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
jrbernier CB&Q/WP/D&RGW initially bought 6 complete sets of the train. CB&Q had 3 sets, WP had 2 sets(minus 1 car), and D&RGW had 1 set(plus 1 car). This was based on milage over the route. CB&Q later bought additional cars on their own. The cars were 'mixed' in the trains over time.
CB&Q/WP/D&RGW initially bought 6 complete sets of the train. CB&Q had 3 sets, WP had 2 sets(minus 1 car), and D&RGW had 1 set(plus 1 car). This was based on milage over the route. CB&Q later bought additional cars on their own. The cars were 'mixed' in the trains over time.
According to the original train makeups which WP Historical Society once had up on the web, they were mixed from day one and there were never any contiguous sets made up by ownership, and later "'mixed' in the trains over time." It was only that the 3 railroads owned particular cars and they were marked as such on the small name boards and carried numbers from the RR number series.
Now when the CZ was finally disolved as a through train in 1970, that is when the individual RR's started taking control over their own cars. It was after that when cars begain to be ran together based on ownership - in particular D&RGW cars in the Rio Grande Zephyr. The D&RGW sold off all its unneeded cars - basically its baggage car and sleepers
Heritagefleet1 The set I'm consigning, was the 13 car WP set -they also offered the DRG&W Zephyr and the CB&Q versions as well. The DRG&W had the smallest contibution of cars, but from what I have read and understand, these trains were changed out with the respective cars at each point where one host railroad handed off to another. Anyway, the set is a complete train, as they were originally consisted, including the observation.
As I noted above and below, the WP owned cars were never "originally consisted" together and run as such. Rather they were mixed in with the D&RGW and CB&Q owned cars from the very first day of their maiden run. I had stored the actual make up of the six maiden run sets somewhere but right now I can't find it. Each of the 6 sets were blended.
I have the matching PRR B/L car that was a run-through contribution to the Zephyr, from the Broadway Limited, at Chicago via the CB&Q. I hate to give it up and know I'll never find that complete set again -especially in the presentation box. There were not many made that way, by BLI. Thanks, HF1
I think the set you have is more for collectors value than anything based on an actual prototype configuration. It is true that each railroad contributed CZ cars based on their route mileage. As far as I can tell from any of the literature, the cars were never during the operation of the CZ placed in train sets based on ownership. As I mentioned above, the actual maiden run car by car makeup of the original 6 trainsets was published by the Western Pacific Historical Society - the cars were all mixed - each 11 car set included cars from each of the 3 sponsoring railroads (D&RGW, CB&Q and WP). They were all blended.
I mentioned the Genesis FP7A in Western Pacific here - those were not out at the time this thread was out yet but are now. Of course the Intermountain FP7's were out.
Just a note to add to the above. I worked on WP passenger units at the Oroville Roundhouse, remember the day of its last run as we set it on the outbound lead. Oroville was the engine exchange pulling off and adding a fresh set on the westbound CZ, Units were given engine inspections and all maintance was compleated on the swing and graveyard shift. These three units were exchanged the next day on the westbound.
Working the units during the heat of the day, especially engine inspections, checking pistons, liners and such was like opening the hood of you car on a hot day, climbing inside and closing the hood behind you, LOL. Most sets were ABB somtimes ABA and occasionaly when severe problems with a Passenger engine a general freight engine (913 class ) with a steam generator would make one trip. It did not not matter in any way if F3 or F7s were used in any alignment, Perhaps this is more hobbyist concerns, we used what was on hand and ready to go.
Due to different gearing of pass and frt engines, this was hard on traction motors, but was done in extreame cases. Also the air had to be changed from indirect to direct air, passenger trains run so that the air brakes set from the rear of the train to streach the train out, freight trains set up from the front toward the back.
All passenger engines were refitted with frt traction motors and put in general frt service.
Also other engines in the 913 class with steam generators would move troop trains using various roads coaches, even old green penszys.
No WP passenger engine ever had a plow that I ever seen. and Im rambling, just a few thoughts.
Take Care...John
Keep on a Rambling John, I just love the first hand stories and info.
I would have loved to have the opportunity to work for the WP, but my butt was firmly imbedded
in the left front corner seat of a Greyhound Bus up here in Canada for 35 years.
Johnboy out......................................and back to reminising
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
John, did you ever see any foreign power such as a D&RGW unit in a CZ consist? By the way if you have any more thoughts ramble on.
Hi Allen. Never seen any RG excep one time, A F7 frt that came into the shop for fuel and sand, it was a well worn out unit. However being in the Roundhouse have no clue to what went up or down the track, except for our engine call board. If a train was a run through we had no knowledge of them, Only concern was what unit was comming in and for what type of service. Fouriegn power was never on our call board.
jwar41 Just a note to add to the above. I worked on WP passenger units at the Oroville Roundhouse, remember the day of its last run as we set it on the outbound lead. Take Care...John ...
Just a note to add to the above. I worked on WP passenger units at the Oroville Roundhouse, remember the day of its last run as we set it on the outbound lead. Take Care...John
...
Hi John,
I enjoyed your rememberences. BTW, I grew up in Davis and Sacramento and went to Sacramento State Univerisity in the 1977-81 time frame. I had a roommate named Rich Wall who came from a family who worked for the Western Pacific. Rich himself worked for a short time during college but told me both his father and grandfather worked for the WP. His dad lived in Davis but I don't know their work history. Perhaps you have heard of the Walls?
Back on topic.
I just received my WP FP7A. I've been waiting a long time for something to replace the old crude Atlas Roco FP7A. I did a once over and other than the etched metal grills slightly lifted off the sides and the horn cluster an itsy bit crooked, it looks gorgeous. Originally I saw the Intermountain FP7A announced and was planning on getting one of them but when Athearn Genesis announced theirs, I decided to pass on the Intermountain. The wind shields are a bit narrow and the I"ve always felt the divide between Intermountain F units was a bit on the wide side. The Gensis unit is a bit more faithful to the latter day WP FP7A in details with the horn cluster rather than the two single horns, the grab irons too.
I have been planning on mating this FP7A with two Stewart F3B units. I was pleased that the orange on the sides was a close match. To bring the Stewarts up to snuff they will need the metalizer stainless steel sides, silver trucks and steam gen details.
Good to hear that you received a good one. Maybe Athearn is picking up the pace on the QC.