Who Uses Kadee & Who Uses Sergent Couplers Here? (HO)

[jasperofzeal]

dehusman

jasperofzeal

Why can't anyone just answer the question without having to put their bias on why they choose what they choose? 

Remember, you put your bias on your answer too when you said they "operate like the prototype".

No sir, if you look at my other post again, I'm quoting your reply to another poster that said that Sergents "operate like the prototype".

I agree to the rest of your response 100%, indeed it's all a matter of personal preference.

dehusman

What every modeler has to do is to choose which compromises they want and which shortcomings they want to live with.

 

[Motley]

Do you guys paint/weather your couplers? Does painting them affect their performance? ie. the small spring gets paint on it.

[rrebell]

Forty Niner

That's what we did in the 1960's only it was with an X2f couler on one end with a Kadee on the other as some guys preferred the old X2f couplers so for them to run on your layout you needed a "conversion car".

Personally I'd be just as happy with a good brass scale size "dummy" coupler such as the Cal-Scale coupler and I would probably have converted to them if Bowser hadn't raised the price to the level of the Kadee's. I just like to "run trains" and am not the least bit concerned about "switching" and such. As for "uncoupling"..............I use the old 5 digit crane as much as I use my electro magnet uncouplers, don't really know why I have them now.

Hey..........how many of you remember the old "straight" pin Kadee couplers with that rather bizarre uncoupler they used?

Mark

I still have some of those on some logging cars. If you want realism, the best I ever saw was someone had made their cut levers work (I believe it was a modified Kadee coupler they used for compatibility sake).

[trainsBuddy]

I use Kadee couplers #5 and sometimes scale and whisker. Choice was easy for me since I'm primarily a passenger service modeler and Sergent couplers can't be used with passenger cars.

[Big Boy Forever]

So far it seems that the majority here say Kadees are easier to use and more dependable. Some guys have too many in use to change now and Sergents look better but are finicky, take more time and patience, and cumbersome with the "stick" needed to reach over and uncouple them rather than with the Kadee magnet anywhere in the tracks.

Reading all that, I would say that Kadees, which are really all I ever used in the past, seem to be the most used and most accepted, which I sort of knew anyway, but Sergent uses here stand by them as just as good, if not better, once you get used to them. Sergent does say that you have to do some filing and use a #2 pencil for lube, before you install them, and then work them a few times to get best results.

The main thing I don't like about the Kadee, is the trip pin hanging off the coupler, and I plan on doing a lot of photography so that would look unrealistic.

I wonder how much of the trip pin you can cut off, to shorten it, until the coupler no longer works over a magnet?

[rrebell]

Model RR is Good

So far it seems that the majority here say Kadees are easier to use and more dependable. Some guys have too many in use to change now and Sergents look better but are finicky, take more time and patience, and cumbersome with the "stick" needed to reach over and uncouple them rather than with the Kadee magnet anywhere in the tracks.

Reading all that, I would say that Kadees, which are really all I ever used in the past, seem to be the most used and most accepted, which I sort of knew anyway, but Sergent uses here stand by them as just as good, if not better, once you get used to them. Sergent does say that you have to do some filing and use a #2 pencil for lube, before you install them, and then work them a few times to get best results.

The main thing I don't like about the Kadee, is the trip pin hanging off the coupler, and I plan on doing a lot of photography so that would look unrealistic.

I wonder how much of the trip pin you can cut off, to shorten it, until the coupler no longer works over a magnet?

There are a lot of people who uncouple Kadee's with a bamboo skewer only and get rid of the trip pin completely.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Model RR is Good

I wonder how much of the trip pin you can cut off, to shorten it, until the coupler no longer works over a magnet?

Almost none. The curved part of the trip pin is what makes the knuckle open when the couplers are over a magnet. Without the curved section of the trip pin the magnets can't make the pin rotate to open the knuckle.

[mopac57]

 I switched to Sergents a year ago and have never looked back. I model Proto 87 and I have never had any problems with Sergents. They aren't really "finicky." Once you get the hang of coupling/uncoupling, they operate just fine. But I chose Sergent couplers for very specific reasons, which may or may not work for you:

1. For appearance, the Sergents worked better for my Proto 87 layout, as I place more importance on uber-realistic appearance than anything else. You may place more importance elsewhere.

2. I do not share my equipment, run it on a club, or swap it with anybody. No one comes over to my house to run his equipment on my layout. So as a "lone wolf" modeler, the compatibility issue doesn't matter. I don't have to worry about making sure my stuff runs on another layout, or couples with another person's equipment.

3. I have a small roster of cars (about 60) and locomotives (5). Therefore, the cost to switch over was not prohibitive. I model a branch line, so my equipment needs are fewer than if I modeled, say, three Class I railroads, a major yard, etc. For you (or anyone else, for that matter), switching to Sergents may be cost prohibitive if you have 400 cars and 150 locos. The decision worked for me because I don't need/want a large roster of equipment. Your mileage may vary.

4. My layout is a shelf, with all switching/coupling within easy reach. No need for magnets. One thing about the Sergents, you have to align the couplers (there is no "centering spring" like the Kadees have) just like the prototype, so this can slow down operations and make switching more realistic. Again, this is something I found appealing. Others may not care for it.

 So for me, the Sergents have worked perfectly. I recommend them. I have never had any problems with them, and I've found them to be just as reliable as Kadees. But to each his own--my choices certainly wouldn't appeal to everybody. But reliability shouldn't really factor in to your decision--the Sergents are fine. 

[fwright]

Model RR is Good

I wonder how much of the trip pin you can cut off, to shorten it, until the coupler no longer works over a magnet?

IIRC, there was an article way back when in MR about epoxying or soldering 2 trip pins together and reversing the trip pin to locate it behind the locomotive pilot or wrap around the closest axle of the truck or pilot truck of the locomotive.  Again, from memory, this only works with "scissors style" Kadee couplers of which the #711 and #714 are examples.  I believe there are/were scissors styles in the regular HO line as well (the old #6, 7, 8 for example).

The elongated trip pins were successfully used by an HOn3 group that was struggling with trip pin interference and appearance issues.  I have never tried this myself, but have kept this in mind as an option should I need/want it.  Perhaps somebody else can recall the article and issue.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

[UP 4-12-2]

I use almost all Kadee #158, and a few #148.

John

 

[steamage]

 Will say this about Sergent couplers, they do look very nice on a supper detailed freight car and are more than twice the price of Kadee's.  But for my 30 year old roster of Athearn and other makes of freight cars having cast on grab irons and ladders, the Kadee's look just fine. Once the Kadee's are carefully painted rusty looking, they blend in well.  I use a pic to uncouple, and the trip pins are cut off of my rolling stock fleet.  For my unit trains I use dummy couples as the trains are not for switching except the end cars have Kadee's.

[csxns]

Kadee rules on my RR.

[mobilman44]

Hi!

I started in HO in 1960 or '61.  The NMRA coupler was pretty much all that was readily available at the time - at least to this teenager on a limited budget.  In the early '70s I moved gradually (as I could afford it) to KDs, and by the mid-'70s all cars and most locos were converted.  Yes, I had to have a couple of cars with a KD on one end and an NMRA on the other for those locos I couldn't convert.

In the last 10 years, I've had cause to try all of the other major players in the coupler market.  Some were better than others, but the only ones that stood the test of time (and my patience) were the KDs.  Today, every loco (60 plus) and every car (400 plus) has KDs when they hit the layout.

I am not badmouthing the others, nor am I saying there are none better.  But I am saying that KDs are readily available for all (in my experience) situations, are reasonably priced, and do the job quite well.

Mobilman44 

[GTW6401]

I use Sergents exclusively but again I dont have a ton of rolling stock to outfit with these beauties. I put the most stock into appearance with operational reliability a very close second if not the same. I just love the look of the Sergents both in a train and on cars sitting in the yard or anywhere else. The fact that the knuckle stays open even looks wicked awesome. The operational reliability is fantastic as well. The couple well at slow speeds and remain coupled. Ive never had an accidental uncoupling granted I've only been using these for about 6 months. The Sergents do add a little "work" because the couplers need to be manually aligned and the knuckles opened if they are otherwise close etc. Bottom line has already been stated, its all personal preference if all you want is to run trains or operational reliability then I see no reason to use anything but Kadees. If you want your couplers to look extremely prototypical and that is very important to you then the Sergent couplers may be for you. The only reason I switched was because appearance is paramount to me. Use whatever allows you the most enjoyment!! Happy Railroading Don

[ford86]

I use sergent rotaries on my LBF coalporters for what they are designed for they work great.  Except I had to install scale #58 kadee's on all of the hoppers so that they would track well since the rotary has no swing.

[Flashwave]

I'm gonna pull up anothe rpoint from the mid-thread recap: Everyone menations having to fiddle with the Sergents to get best results. 99% of this is referring to the kit version. As yet, Sergent has not rolled out a bulk pack of pre-assembleds, but the assembled couplers have not required the aforementioned break-ins that the kit couplers did. Also, I left the spring out entirely on mine. But then, I'm not running 50car trains yet. A friend of mine however, is, and he's only had one fail once the entire time he's owned them, and that was due to an assembly error I believe on his part. 

I will highlight one other issue with Sergents: That magnetic wand, like metal. And it WILL find loose hand grabs, and pull them out...

trainsBuddy

Sergent couplers can't be used with passenger cars.

dehusman

Sargents may be difficult to use on passenger equipment with diaphrams since the top of the coupler will be in accessible.  Kadees can be uncoupled with a magnet from below.

Very shortly, that will no longer be correct. Sergent is coming out with the Type H passenger couplers required by Amtrak, and is working on a flat-head magnet that will work under the diaghrams.

Also, one other coupler has been ignored here. These are sold by Sergent, though I don't think they are Sergent's coupler. And that is: The Rotary. Yes, it's a plastic dummy knuckle, but unit coal trains don't uncouple very often, and it DOES turn.

 

[Darth Santa Fe]

I use Kadee couplers. At this point, I've got almost all of my freight and passenger cars converted to Kadee #5s or similar, and I think I have #58s on about 75% of me engines. The Kadees just look and work better than the other brands of couplers. However, I will keep McHenry scale-sized couplers on anything that came with them, because they look about as good as Kadee couplers and work about as well. And according to Model Railroader's review, the McHenry scale couplers are strong enough to pull a 1,000 car train before bending out of shape!

[Packer]

Kadees all the way. almost everything else is junk (the new protomaxes are okay)

I have thought about going with segents, but the lack of remote uncoupling is a big deterence to me.. The ability to couple and uncouple on curves was something I do wish the Kadee was capable of, but it may be possible by ommiting the centerin