Anyone got any neat tips or tricks on painting structure details like all the fancy cornices and masonry ledges and sill on DPM kits I have only been able to get them done using a micro brush, a lighted magnifying glass and a lot of cuss words. I read on the NMRA website where they recommenced using scotch tape for masking off small parts? So if anyone has any neat ideas I'm all ears.
Sorry there's no real short cut, you're doing it right. It'll get easier the more you do.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Allegheny2-6-6-6 So if anyone has any neat ideas I'm all ears.
Well, I've built many of these structures - my own experience brought me to a method that is probably pretty easy for most - DON'T use scotch tape for goodness sake.
I use 3M Drafting Tape, available from your local art supply store or on line.
On a flat work surface(I use a peice of tempered window glass from Home Depot), I tear several strips and adhere them to the work surface. The glass is perfectly flat and makes cutting the tape with a knife very smooth.
I then cut the long strips into small squares or lengths. These allow you to place a clean tape edge along a portion you want to mask for painting.
I'd recommend an airbrush to spray on the surface you want to paint -I've made a small masks for repetitive window styles by simply masking around the shape of the window trim and then carefully lifting it off to be reused for each window... this works very well and makes quick work of an otherwise tedious job.
Try it out ... I think you'll agree it makes this job a lot more fun.
Good luck with it and let us know how that works out.
Enjoy!
HeritegeFleet1
Yeah I agree the scotch tape idea is kinda hokey but just reporting whats on their website. I read a how to article last night at RMC by Chris Brimley about painting DPM kits. He does something similar but uses .005 styrene to make a window masking blanks and holds it in place with a bit of rubber cement. same principal with a little different spin on it. I've tried it in the past with moderate success but didn't think about the rubber cement part of it so maybe I'll give that a try. Yes I totally agree an airbrush is the only way to paint just about anything.
I like to lightly air brush or rattle can paint with primer, then the color of my choice onto all the parts on the sprues before assembly and then do what you are doing. The first layer of sprayed on primer and paint really helps the "detail paint" adhere to the plastic a lot better and can cut down on the amount of paint runs.....chuck
Just a Jay indicates in the first reply, there is no "short cut" to doing this. In the time wasted carefully masking countless windows, doors, and other details on a structure one could paint these items free-hand on half a dozen buildings. As one gains in modeling experience such painting becomes increasingly faster and more accurate. And don't foget, your finishing models are typically viewed at a distance of 3'-4' and minor painting errors simply don't show to any degree at that distance...especially when surrounding scene is equally detailed.
CNJ831
I tried making a mask from styrene like the one Brimley uses - it works good except its not flexible to work around mold imperfections - that's why I started using the tape and saving the masking around... I could reuse it for several windows and make 'adjustments' to slight mold changes by simply adjusting the tape to conform.
Another step I do in the prep stage is to place all the parts in a flat baking foil and soak them in denatured alcohol for about 3 4 minutes. This neutralizes the mold release agents on the plastic and give the plastic the right amount of 'tooth' for paint adherence.
Good luck with the DPM project and hope some of this helps you get good results!
I agree with John on this, you'll spend as much time masking as you will painting. Just use a small brush and keep your paints thin, also with the smaller brushes , it's a good idea to keep rinsing the brush off, so it doesn't gum up. mh
Actually, the mask process is much easier faster than hand painting them and it can make the difference between a superb looking model and a mediocre one that looks, well -hand painted.
The trick Allegheny, is to make only ONE mask for each door or window application ...and use it over and over...much faster, simpler and easier with the airbrush - you have more control plus the benefit of a much better looking application as a basis for weathering and other detail work.
I can state that in about a 30 minute period, I've been able to make 4- 5 different door and window masks, place the masks and shoot all the areas to be painted on a average sized DPM model, and with very pleasing results.
In the time it would take the average modeler to complete detail painiting on one structure, you could knock out 3 or 4 in an evening
If you want the best results, this really is a smarter way to get the job done.
Or, you can strain your eyes hand-painting all this detail and take hours and hours to complete one phase of a structure.
I guess it comes down to which method you prefer.
If you're only doing one small structure with a few windows or doors, then hand painting them is a reasonable option.
If you're tackling multiple structures with many details to be painted, the mask method invaluable.
I mask using Tamiya masking tape.
I spray the brick. I hand paint the detail work.
I didn't mask the first few buildings that I did, and boy it showed.
By masking, I improved the overall look of the building– A lot!
Let me say though that I'm an N-scaler and of course the buildings and details are smaller.
Well I busted out the old North West Short-lines chopper clone aka a paper cutter and a pair of calipers. made a set of about 40 widow masking blanks in roughly 5 minutes. I test fit them to a non painted DPM kit wall and they fit perfectly. I plan on waiting at least 24 hours for the paint to dry before I apply the masking blanks with a daub of rubber cement some time tomorrow. What I did earlier today was spray a few light coats of the window color over the entire structure and mainly covered the inside wall so light will not show through when i add lighting eventually. I may hand paint the window sills or just simply make a mask for them buy cutting out the shape on a piece of styrene with a sharp hobby knife.or mask of the brick with liquid masker. I cam across a merchants row 1 that I built several years a go where I used frisket paper to mask off the structure. It came out nice but It all came back to me like the sunk said after the wind changed on how laborious of a process it was. So far I am thinking the masking blanks may be the way to go as they can be reused indefinitely.We shall see some time tomorrow.
Heritagefleet1 Actually, the mask process is much easier faster than hand painting them and it can make the difference between a superb looking model and a mediocre one that looks, well -hand painted. The trick Allegheny, is to make only ONE mask for each door or window application ...and use it over and over...much faster, simpler and easier with the airbrush - you have more control plus the benefit of a much better looking application as a basis for weathering and other detail work. I can state that in about a 30 minute period, I've been able to make 4- 5 different door and window masks, place the masks and shoot all the areas to be painted on a average sized DPM model, and with very pleasing results.
While you may be able to get away with this masking and airbrushing approach for supposedly frame buildings, it really doesn't work on most others (like DPM's brick buildings, for example) that have any depth to the window and door recesses. For these, your approach will result in not only painting the window frames with the airbrush, but also the stone sills and all the inner edges of the brick or stonework that immediately surrounds the window and door frames as well. This is not realistic looking.
Masks may give cleaner results, but they tend to produce over-painting of areas that should be of different colors and gives a far less detailed appearance overall to the structure. Note the painting of the windows, the door and their surroundings on the building in the background of the image below. You'd be hard pressed to get that sort of result with an airbrush and simple masks.
The same is true for each of the buildings in the urban scene illustrated below. All had their window/door detail brush painted and look much better and more realistic for it.
CNJ...
While you make what appears to be a valid point, you miss the benefit of the masking technique.
(it appears that you are more interested in discrediting my suggestions, than offering one of your own - please: for the sake of the readers wanting to learn a better technique, try to avoid using this as a place to badger me - which is obvious you are attempting to do).
Let's take your photos for example: in the second photo you posted, most of those structures are kits that have window inserts that are easily painted - I can name about 95% of those structures out of hand and have built the vast majority of them at one time or another -either for myself or for others... this was not a good example.
Your second picture was a far better example of the DPM type that has all the window detail molded into the wall panel.
In this example, you actually make the case for why the masking technique works better - you'll notice that the window recesses (Casings) lack any brick detail - on many masonary structures of all vintages, the Window Casings do extend to near the outer edge of the exterior wall.
In HO scale, from a normal viewing perspective, this would not be an noticable attribute.
HOWEVER... for the sake of argument, let's say that this structure had details inside the window opening.
The mask technique I suggest does wrap into the recessed area - mask to the area to be painted - this is what I said. It is very easy to do and requires very little time - the end results are well worth the few extra seconds it takes per window.
I'm going to find a structure wall form an old kit and start a new thread ,showing step by step photos of how to use this technique and the results it can produce - those of you who are interested , please keep watching for this post - I'm also going to illustrate another technique I call layering, that allows you to mask and paint both windows/doors , Lintnels and sashes, and stone ledging, all in one mask overlay.
Its fun, takes just a little more effort and you can paint windows and doors en mass.
Stay tuned for more soon.
Thanks, HeritegeFleet1
CNJ
I have to respectfully disagree and side with HeritegeFleet1 on this one. Here is a pic of the finished piece and a link to the article in RMC I clearly see the authors point as well as HF1' point of view. Rather then get into a verbal sparing match I give you the example below of the authors work. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Oh and the structure pictured is N-scale
http://rrmodelcraftsman.com/extraboard/
after doing a couple of hundred windows, free hand with a small brush, I have found the light. Floquil's paint markers. They come in 9 colors 3 in each pack I have all 9 colors, I just knocked out a City classics building in about 30 mins with two diffirent colors and no masking. The tip of the pen is easy to remove and take a Xatco knife to, I leave one end as is, and sharpen the other end to a finer point. I also use the heavyer end to paint the rest of the building, it leaves streaking on the brick that looks prefect for a lightly weathered paint job. If you want a more solid paint hit it with a second coat and your done. Also the paint is dead flat no dullcoat etc.
Very good tip on using the paint markers.
I will say that I don't mind taking the time to mask a building. I want to enjoy the process of completing every building and I'm not in a position where I have to rush through it.
Heritagefleet1 CNJ... While you make what appears to be a valid point, you miss the benefit of the masking technique. (it appears that you are more interested in discrediting my suggestions, than offering one of your own - please: for the sake of the readers wanting to learn a better technique, try to avoid using this as a place to badger me - which is obvious you are attempting to do). Let's take your photos for example: in the second photo you posted, most of those structures are kits that have window inserts that are easily painted - I can name about 95% of those structures out of hand and have built the vast majority of them at one time or another -either for myself or for others... this was not a good example. Your second picture was a far better example of the DPM type that has all the window detail molded into the wall panel. In this example, you actually make the case for why the masking technique works better - you'll notice that the window recesses (Casings) lack any brick detail - on many masonary structures of all vintages, the Window Casings do extend to near the outer edge of the exterior wall.
I suggest you look again at the photos. The urban scene contains 14-15 structures, fully 2/3's of those seen, where the windows are a solid part of the wall castings, not inserts. Perhaps you are not as familiar with structure kits as you think.
I would also suggest that you examine some photos of prototype brick and masonry commercial and multiple dwelling-type structures if you think that the window casings typically extended all the way out to the edges of masonry wall openings. While you may find some, the use of inset windows, with exposed surrounding brick or stonework, is many times more common on the East Coast.
I will be interested to see you present your methods of masking that allows you complete 3 or 4 times as many buildings in a given time as opposed to simply brush painting the same details on a building. I hope it is a far more sophisticated approach than the method from the RMC site (which is certainly not a new approach to begin with) pointed to by Allegheny, since that one requires a number of extra steps unnecessary with brush painting and certainly doesn't result in a quicker completion of the model by any means.
MichaelWinicki I want to enjoy the process of completing every building and I'm not in a position where I have to rush through it.
Michael...thanks for pointing this out ... great suggestion!
The paint markers are an excellent alternative for those who prefer the hand painting method and as suggested by the poster, cutting a 'chisel' tip really helps to make a smooth line that's hard to duplicate for most people painting free-hand.
I use some fine markers from Tamiya for touch up and highlighting details too but hadn't tried these until recently...I'll try out your method on some old kit walls from DPM.
Smart tip.(no pun intended)
HeritageFleet1
Well I just used the paint pens i picked up at AC Moore on one wall of one building. It resulting in a moderate success. The trimming of the tip sounds like a great idea I'll try that one tomorrow after I strip the building and repaint it brick color. Lets say some of use agree to disagree and what works well for one may not be the others cup of tea that doesn't mean that both methods aren't equally effective. I was very impressed with the authors results but do realize that it may work best on some simple window frame but in the case of some of the DPM structures as well as some of the Lunde's kits I have with more ornate cornice's and window mullions the masking method would result at least for me in a severe migraine at the least. I just feel I need to make one thing clear in that I am not looking to have a production line of building and detailing mode structures knocking them out asap,, but rather just maybe a different way of doing things.If we don't try different methods then how are we ever going to learn how to do anything?
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.
One thought I had forgotten to enter was I am surprised that with the popularity of DP structures and the like that no enterprising individual has come out with a set of window masks for this exact reason, I feel it would be a very popular item. for as many really nice looking structures I've seen painted I've seen ten times the amount of really really bad ones.
CNJ831 will be interested to see you present your methods of masking that allows you complete 3 or 4 times as many buildings in a given time as opposed to simply brush painting the same details on a building.
Again, I will entertain anything you would like to direct to me personally, and respectfully request that you do it off the forum.
I'm glad that you have good luck with the hand-painted method and it is clear that you think this is the best method - that's fine and I'm sure you are satisfied with the results you achieve with your preferred method. I'm sure there are many others who have used the hand-painted method for years and are satisfied with that way of doing things.
However, I also believe that for many others, the mask/ overlay method will prove to be a better way to go for both inexperienced and advanced modelers alike becuase it offers the modeler a simpler and much less tedious way of achieving the finished look.
One thing I did want to say was in regard to your comments about my knowledge of basic architecture, is that I too, am from the Northeast - The Commonwelth of Pennsylvania to be exact - and am quite familier with all types of masonary and framed structural designs commonly used in that part of the US.
My father's three brothers constructed residential and small commercial structures for many years all over the Ohio river valley after WWII , from around 1946 up to 1959 when the eldest(architectural engineer) had to give up this work due to his health. The last house built was my uncle's own new home, located in Crestline, Ohio(their company was located in Mansfield, Oh)
So, I'm not exactly ignorant when it comes to knowledge about how structures are designed and built, nor am I about my modeling methods.
You are quite right about recessed framing and I don't believe I was challenging your expertise on the subject matter...I simply am saying that the mask/overlay method does in deed , make easy work of this - you don't have to agree, and if not, then we'll just agree to disagree.
I look forward to illustrating some of my own techniques and hope that anyone interested in this topic will find it useful.
I hope to have somethingh up and running by next week sometime.
Thanks all,
Allegheny2-6-6-6Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.
Alleghany... good post.
Thanks for sharing it - best of luck on your structure building.
i do recommend u use the new scotch blue tape . it is great for models easy on/easy off, willk not stick to fingers. sticks better than any thing else completely. paint will not leak thru edges. your doing the process of painting correctly. less cuss, more deep breath, let out slowly and be patient it will get easy and better each time u do it. will help u on other projects. keep trying. ct
Heritagefleet1...In the time it would take the average modeler to complete detail painiting on one structure, you could knock out 3 or 4 in an evening [with masks]...
Unfortunately, I knock out 3 or 4 a year and I have no doubt I would lose the masks between each one!
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler