QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER ...but I do ride Amtrak when I get the chance.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I do not mean this to be taken as a slam, put down, rebuke, whatever. I would like it known that I hate only one thing, and that is hate, itself. Hate is odious, limiting, myopic, and has ignorance for a mother.
I love, on the other hand, all things about all railroads. They represent people at work, trying their best. Even the inept or myopic leaders and managers in some cases.
grayfox1119 wrote:UP isn't even close!!!! Universally throughout New England ( and beyond in some cases ) it is GUILFORD !!!!! They made a mess out a great RR, the B&M !!!! I have heard this from Railfans, Modelers, and long time LHS owners. NEVER, have I heard one GOOD thing about GUILFORD....Now they call themselves PanAM.....ya that's good, a former airline...nice !
I like the part about PanAm lol. I only really see Guilfords, The MBTA, a few NS, a CSX like once a month, a few P&Ws out here. I have a few Guilford engines but I prefer say the MEC and B&M I hate guilford for getting rid of them!
tatans wrote:Mention the C.P.R. to any Western Canadian and stand back. C.P.R is always prefixed with 2 expletives!! Numerous books have been written on this subject and ask a grain farmer his feelings toward this institution, strange, after this many years it still incites a red face and bulging veins in the forehead.
Hey, I'm western Canuckian, former farmer AND a big CPR fan.
A lot of western farmers growl because of the loss of the "Crow" rate, which forced CP to ship grain for large companies like Cargill and Pool at 1890s pricing, right through well into the 1990s. The grain companies didn't really care, since they pass all of those costs on to the farmers. Farmers flipped when the railroads finally managed to get the government to allow them to charge a reasonable freight rate (ie: one at which they were no longer losing money). I still think that the freight they charge is a heck of a lot cheaper than the alternative; trucking it costs two to three times as much up front, and beats the snot out of the roads. You want to be mad about the loss of the crow rate, get mad at the Agricores and Cargills. What other business could get away with forcing its suppliers, who are only permitted to sell to them, to pay all the freight and charge them a handling fee on top of that? In every other business I've been involved with the customer pays the freight costs, not the supplier.
As for CN, they've gone from an organization that sucked up millions of government dollars every year in operating subsidies to one of the most efficient (if not THE most efficient) railroads in North America. You've gotta respect that.
One of the biggest complaints is about them shutting down, or wanting to shut down very marginal branch lines. As someone said, they're out there to operate profitably, and shutting down those kind of lines makes a bunch of sense from a business perspective. With a salvage value of $110 a FOOT for 100 lb rail, closing an 82 km line means they can salvage $30 million worth of rail, as well as save the cost of maintaining the line. In order for that line to even make $30 million over 20 years, they would have to be moving somewhere in the neighbourhood of 8000 to 10000 cars over that line per year. Pretty tough for 5 or 6 wooden elevators to provide that much traffic, or even 10 or 15. No wonder they want to shut em down, and I don't blame them.
A lot of the angst also came from their "denial of service" strategy in the 70s and 80s. Can you really blame them for using that tactic, when those branch lines were bleeding them of millions in operating costs? The government regulations prevented them from ever closing any branch line with even one customer on it, no matter how much they lost operating that line. Their response was to provide crappy enough service that the customers on those lines found alternative options, allowing the railroads to finally stop operating these white elephants. If they still had to operate those lines, I seriously doubt we'd still have either road to model in the present day.
So really, when it comes down to brass tacks, although a LOT of western farmers are growly about the railroads, it's really 100 years of crappy government policy that's to blame.
But that's just my (informed) opinion........I might be wrong.....
Mike
"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"
EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION
http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588
I must chime in here... Hate UP? For their actions against model railroad manufactures, yes. But hate is a strong word. I would say dislike rather. As of late, the UPRR has stepped back on their actions against model railroad mfrs, though I agree with their terms: "Products displaying the name and markings of the Union Pacific must be clear and precise to the standards of the Union Pacific railroad as they were in service."
As I model the SP, this becomes a benefit to me, since the UPRR's circumstances relating to model RR reproduction, including absorbed fallen flags, makes the products I purchase of highest quality standards.
Personally, I have never had a liking for UP, but not for reasons the past 10 years might persuade. I am not a big fan of the color yellow, and otherwise, as the UP consumed the SP railroad, the familiarity of the SP, being replaced was a shock, which as a railfan (and modeler) was tough to accept.
Their is no reason to literally hate any spceific railroad unless:
1. They ban every reproduction of their name and models of any entity
2. They personaly have caused you harm
3. They laid tracks, and drove their train through your train room!
Jeremy
AGGRO: I think the proper name is the "Phoenix".
BTW guys, the term "hate" in this instance used by many of us on this thread, is not the "dreaded" hate, but rather an extreme disappointment with the "management/owners" of the particular RR that we have a beef with.
In my case, GUILFORD here in NE, they sold off treasured land marks, equipment, etc. to developers, gone forever. They are giving Amtrak all sorts of non cooperation as Amtrak is trying to upgrade and extend the old B&M lines past Portland, ME, to points further north. The Amtrak "Downeaster" has been doing GREAT on this line to Portland from North Station in Boston, but dealing with Guilford has been a real stumbling block.
LOL @ Aggro, who knows that's the way things go with threads...
And, after all, how could one "hate" a railroad. There are so few left...
I like the UP its just the copyright deal thats the issue.
perhaps I didnt like the C&O for trying to dump the South Shore passenger service.
I think the thing I really hated was the most archrivals of railroading merged, Pennsy and NYC to the Penn Central, thats the most oddball name ever really.
The colorful paint schemes went jet black.
maybe the saddest is when the North Shore abandoned.
Well I love 'em all - Guilford included. I know nothing of their industrial relations track record and I can't see its relevance to modelling. And I think their colour scheme is among the best - business-like, not pretty and toy-like. In fact I am developing a layout based around Guilford. They have a very interesting loco roster, and I can't believe how little RTR Guilford stuff there is available! Also, I find the fact that they were slow getting around to repainting their ex Santa Fe locos amusing, and fun to model. All part of the rich tapestry, if you ask me.
But hating a railroad is as self-defeating as finding fault with manufacturers' offerings - an all-too-frequent occurrence on one of the UK forums I visit.
Modelling the UK in 00, and New England - MEC, B&M, D&H and Guilford - in H0
I don't hate any RR, but I was not to happy with Conrail, after they abandon a couple tracks near me. I understand why, just didn't like it.
Another reason I don't care for them was that when I was farming, part of our grain bins was on the other side of the tracks and they would have the crossing blocked for and hour or more some days without breaking the train. So it was was a 3 mile trip around it, slow going on a tractor and wagons.
The sad part about it, it was a main county road, and againist the law, they didn't care. Cops gave them tickets for it, don't think they ever paid the fines.
We didn't have that much problem with PRR or PC before, or CSX now.
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309
inch53,The formation of Conrail SAVED Eastern railroads because PC,E-L,LV,RDG and the other roads that made up CR was bankrupt and going down the rusty tracks toward abandonment had no action been taken to save these railroads.
To many modelers forget that several railroads was bankrupt and the only way out was through mergers,bailouts and other steps to include abandoning duplicate and unprofitable trackage.Of course nothing save the Rock Island from complete liquidation ordered by bankruptcy court..
I am sure several Eastern railroads would have suffered the same fate as RI wasn't for the formation of Conrail.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
This is an urban legend of how the government 'had to' save the poor bankrupt railroads.
FALSE. The Governement was the CAUSE of it mostly to start with. It was the STAGGERS ACT that 'saved' railroads, from the goverment crazy rules and regulations on labor, rates, rate setting, track abandonement etc etc.
Conrail was allowed by the government to do things the other railroads couldnt do.
BRAKIE wrote: inch53,The formation of Conrail SAVED Eastern railroads because PC,E-L,LV,RDG and the other roads that made up CR was bankrupt and going down the rusty tracks toward abandonment had no action been taken to save these railroads.To many modelers forget that several railroads was bankrupt and the only way out was through mergers,bailouts and other steps to include abandoning duplicate and unprofitable trackage.Of course nothing save the Rock Island from complete liquidation ordered by bankruptcy court..I am sure several Eastern railroads would have suffered the same fate as RI wasn't for the formation of Conrail.
Nope your are wrong..All one has to do is some research and see how the Goverment gave the Eastern railroads bailout after bailout and still no end of the Eastern railroads finanical woes was in sight..PC couldn't even keep their commuter train running on time due to locomotive failures,bad track and other woes.As far as freight service locomotive failures,derailments and other woes cause shippers to pull their hair out,throw their hands up in disgust and turn to trucks for their needs..
Conrail was formed April 1st 1976..The Staggers Rail Act took place in 1980..
So how did The Staggers Rail Act save the bankrupt Eastern Railroads?
The labor was UNION/RAILROAD agreements except in some cases.
One thing you all failed to notice and to mention, THIS IS THE MODELRAILER FORUM, WHERE WE MODEL WHAT EVER WE WANT! KEY WORD (MODEL).
You should take this load of crap, to Trains.com Forums, where they talk about real railroads not (MODELS!)
Is this going to become the new way to get around the ban on polls here! Just thown some stupid question and set back and watch the fall out!
Nope you are wrong. All you have to do is some research to know the facts,which are NOT this. PC did not WANT to do commuter railroading the government MADE them!! How is that an example? Don't you know the history of passenger rail from post WW2 to Amtrak?
Here is the simple fact, the government gave Conrail what it would NOT give the railroads prior, freedom from many crazy rules, to include track abandonement. Do you not know any history Larry, come on, the government held up mergers to do just that for DEDADES until it was too late! The PC merger was held up for 7 years. Rock Island wanted to merger but was prevented for at least a decade until it was too late.
If you don't now about the Staggers Act then you are showing that you don't know the facts here! Please do some research and reading.
And labor was another coffin nail that Conrail was allowed to rewrite the contracts to get rid of featherbedding 5 man crews and other things the railroad employees did to put themselves out of work in the end.
So what I am saying is, if the govt had given the railroads what it ultimately gave Conrail (in other words stay of the it with their rules), then the railroads would have been able to do what Conrail did, without the taxpayers having to fork over billions.
BRAKIE wrote: Nope your are wrong..All one has to do is some research and see how the Goverment gave the Eastern railroads bailout after bailout and still no end of the Eastern railroads finanical woes was in sight..PC couldn't even keep their commuter train running on time due to locomotive failures,bad track and other woes.As far as freight service locomotive failures,derailments and other woes cause shippers to pull their hair out,throw their hands up in disgust and turn to trucks for their needs..Conrail was formed April 1st 1976..The Staggers Rail Act took place in 1980..So how did The Staggers Rail Act save the bankrupt Eastern Railroads?The labor was UNION/RAILROAD agreements except in some cases.
I hate RENFE (Red Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Españoles).
Back in 1985 they wouldn't let my wife share the compartment with me on the overnight Talgo from Madrid to Paris because she kept her last name when we got married and they didn't believe we were actually married.
And you guys thought UP was evil.
Andre