My HO scale engines sometimes uncouple while running in MU together. Is this a common problem? I started out with Kadee scale #58's and my trackwork was a bit too rough. Tried Kadee scale size working shelf #119's..still uncoupled...Tried good old #5's and was better but various combinations of MU's still uncoupled. Finally installed HUGE out-of-scale working shelf Kadee #118's and problem solved! (but I dont like how they look) Apply CA glue to spring to hold in place? My speed matching is excellent, and track work not THAT bad....anyone else have this "issue" of MU's uncoupling during operation? Thanks!
I've had that problem myself. My track rises and dips a bit and mu'd locos had a tenancy to uncouple by one coupler sliding up over the other. My solution isn't elegant but it works for me. I replaced the couplers between locos with horn hooks and lashed them together with a wire bread tie. No uncoupling since. The units are permanently mu'd anyway in that their pickups are all wired together so I'll not be separating them anytime soon. I've done this with a pair of SDP40F's, a pair of Atlas GP40's, an Athearn GP38/GP40 set, an Athearn F7A-F7B set, an Athearn PA2/PB2 set and a Proto 2000 E7A/E6B set. It's primitive but it's simple and it works and I go with what costs the least and works 100%. I've tried drawbars but on 18" radius they're just too rigid and have a nasty habit of popping coupler pocket covers off.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
When I was on an Athearn RS-3 buying binge I bought them in pairs (two road numbers for each paint scheme). Some of the pairs of RS-3s had a nasty habit of uncoupling, so I put a dummy knuckle coupler on the back end of each loco. The dummy coupler shanks have 'whiskers' like McHenry couplers but the knuckles are rigid and don't open or close. They won't uncouple so long as the coupler heights on each loco are the same.
one quick question to start off. are you having this problem with your engines only, or do your trains break in two also?
maybe i am lucky but i almost never have any problems like those you described. i am using kadee number 5's on everything they will fit and the only complaints have been with yard engines that were mu'd coming apart over the magnets in the classification yard. my solution was to cut the trip pins off between the ones that stay paired together and that problem was solved.
one suggestion is to check the trip pins and see if they are contacting the foot boards. i have had to trim a couple of foot boards back a little because of this. this was especially a problem on some of my brass steamers.
maybe your track is a little too rough but mine is not perfect and i am not having any problems. you might want to double check the coupler heights on everything to see if they are correct and not mismatched.
i am not talking down to you, i just don't know what your experience and skill levels are.
when all else fails, keep a log book showing exactly where each occurance happened and what two pieces of equipment were involved. logic will soon tell you whether you have a track problem or an equipment problem or a combination of both.
gluing the springs will not help if the couplers are over riding one another. could there be too much vertical play in the draft gear boxes?
you said you were using kadee couplers. are you 100% genuine kadee? at the risk of starting a war, i will tell you that i have been in this hobby for over 45 years and with over 450 cars and 30 engines i have thrown just about every knock off or clone coupler i ever had in the trash. on new equipment, i replace them straight out of the box. i don't give them a chance to fail or cause me any headaches.
my locomotive consist are mostly atlas and p2k geeps but i never mix the two brands or run more that 3 powered units in one consist. i have noticed that the p2k's tend to surge a bit and really i think they are over rated. all my dummy geeps are p2k's that i just gave up on and guttted. every atlas with the kato drive i ever bought is still running fine. i have replaced so many lifelike axle gears i now have a gondola car loaded with wheels. any locomotive that surges or does not play well with others will magnify your problem greatly
let us know what you find out.
grizlump
Thanks! Good point on the foot boards, I will check that one - and yes, I immediately discard "stock" couplers and install "genuine" KD's on everything - you are also correct, I did replace the 'whisker" type with the old fashioned brass spring insert-I found this reduced vertical loose play in many engine coupler boxes causing the problem also-thanks again
Holey Moley! Some people need to construct smoother trackwork, make sure there aren't sudden changes in track grade, and assure that couplers are at the proper height.
Hard-wiring rolling stock together is the act of desperate men.
Mark
The problems aren't with the couplers (unless they are missing knuckle springs)..
You either don't have the couplers set at a consistent height (buy a Kadee coupler gauge and mount them all at the right height) or your track has really poor quality, uneven base board, mismatched joints, warped track at joints or poor geometry (too rapid changes between flats and inclines).
If your couplers are set, properly, have have the proper springs etc, your track is smoothly constructed, and has good geometry then you can use #58's and they will never come uncoupled.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
brankTried Kadee scale size working shelf #119's..still uncoupled.
markpierce Holey Moley! Some people need to construct smoother trackwork, make sure there aren't sudden changes in track grade, and assure that couplers are at the proper height. Hard-wiring rolling stock together is the act of desperate men. Mark
I'll second that comment. The problem is not in the couplers themselves, but in the combination of improper coupler heights and rough track work. First and foremost, good, smooth trackwork is key to problem free operations. Next would be to properly 'tech' your rolling stock by making sure that wheels are in gauge and couplers are at the proper height.
Hard wiring locos together, using twist ties to ensure that locomotives (or cars) stay coupled together IS the act of a desperate man - or someone not willing to take the time to make sure that their trackwork and equipment are in good working order. The next you know someone will recommend switch wheels from rp25 contours to 'pizza-cutters' with oversized flanges so they won't derail.
Doing things right the first time is easier than trying fix problems are the fact.
This happens with MUs because there is slack when the first engine slows a bit and the second catches up, resulting in no pressure on the couplers.
Does this happen at just a few spots on your layout? What is it about those spots that's different? Is there an S-curve? Is it the start of a grade?
Another possibility is an electrical dead spot. The lead engine hits it and momentarily stalls, then gets pushed past the dead spot by the rest of the train.
Do the couplers all swing freely, or is there a little stickiness there? This could also cause uncoupling.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I am going to guess the engines that come un coupled are 6 wheel truck's, am I right? If so, the center wheel acts as a pivot point, this cause's the front and rear of the trucks to raise and lower to much to much. Then they come uncoupled when the hit a hump in the rails.
If this is the case, and at this point you cannot find time to fix the track you could try this trick. When I was having this problem, I pulled the center wheel set, pivot point is gone and they stayed coupled. Lost some pulling power, but could still drag the freight.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
..please..fix..your...track...
really I have the same trouble on my modules and I won't tolerate bad track, but having bad track revealed problems you wouldnt see otherwise.
My Bachmann E33 electrics I found the pivot point of the trucks to be mounted further inward to the body center than your average loco, this does 2 things, bad track amplifies coupler misalignment, 2. it amplifies wide swing on curves and this is a 6 wheel truck, dragging cars off the track. I had to install long shank couplers on it, Walthers makes a wide swing pocket for passenger cars I may be forced to install it on the E33's but its more a bad track problem.
I tried the shelf couplers on the E33, no sorry, the lockdown effect derailed cars.
For the time being you need an extended knuckle coupler which is prototypical.
I did search and they are hard to find, Kadee should make this (BIG HINT)
on walthers,,,
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/585-31175
This is a wide swing for passenger/traction dummy coupler and has an extended knuckle.
But the coupler is mounted for a wide swing will not insert into kadees, adapting needed.
it seems PIA has an extended knuckle (this took a dig)
http://pweb.jps.net/~pia/pialist.htm
search extended
http://pweb.jps.net/~pia/
contact them via the main page, I thought they were in walthers..hmmm
if you can find extended knuckle couplers elswhere, I reccomend that, there are common on interurban lines like the North Shore which had traction freight and the passenger cars used them.
If I have two engines that run together a lot, I sometimes put Accurail dummy couplers on the ends where they normally connect up. The head are about the same size as Kadee 5's (and in fact will couple with a Kadee). I would check to make sure the couplers are at the same height, generally I've only had real problems where one engine's coupler is higher than the other. Sometimes switching to one of the Kadee's that are overset or underset will take care of it.
One thing I haven't seen addressed in the replies above is, in addition to checking the couplers for proper height and trip pin clearance, is to also insure there is minimal vertical play in the coupler. Even using the Kadee box with the #5 coupler, I've found I needed to file the box narrower (vertically) to control the vertical movement, which you'll see when the couplers are under load. If they move too far up and down, they'll pull apart.
And as others have stated, if you still have problems, you may want to revise your definition of "track work not THAT bad."
TomDiehlAnd as others have stated, if you still have problems, you may want to revise your definition of "track work not THAT bad."
markpierceHoley Moley! Some people need to construct smoother trackwork, make sure there aren't sudden changes in track grade, and assure that couplers are at the proper height. Hard-wiring rolling stock together is the act of desperate men. Mark
Wow - and I thought MY track was bad! Except for one or two cars that have couplers at the wrong height, I haven't had any accidental uncouplings that weren't related to derailments caused by operator error or those few trouble spots that has evaded me so far!
I think you got me.......I'm gonna start "re-engineering" and smoothing out my track at a few "problem spots"-Thanks!
brankI think you got me.......I'm gonna start "re-engineering" and smoothing out my track at a few "problem spots"-Thanks!
Hi,
all are great replies and am certain that if followed will help out a lot. If you wish to smooth out your tracks purchase some signs like "no parking", "apt for rent" etc from the dollar store. Cut these signs into the strips needed to prop up one side or both sides of the track and smoothen it out that way. Might same you a lot of aggravation compared to having to rip up the track. Once it is ballasted you will not see it anymore.
Frank
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
da_kraut brank I think you got me.......I'm gonna start "re-engineering" and smoothing out my track at a few "problem spots"-Thanks! Hi, all are great replies and am certain that if followed will help out a lot. If you wish to smooth out your tracks purchase some signs like "no parking", "apt for rent" etc from the dollar store. Cut these signs into the strips needed to prop up one side or both sides of the track and smoothen it out that way. Might same you a lot of aggravation compared to having to rip up the track. Once it is ballasted you will not see it anymore. Frank
brank I think you got me.......I'm gonna start "re-engineering" and smoothing out my track at a few "problem spots"-Thanks!
For areas that don't have that big of a dip, I've used strips of cardboard cut from the backing of the package that switches come in or the boxes that Woodland Scenics uses for their tunnel portals. Since homosote is basically the same substance as the cardboard, it should work fine.
brank think you got me.......I'm gonna start "re-engineering" and smoothing out my track at a few "problem spots"-Thanks!
Brank, where they 6 wheel trucks?
Are you using cork road bed? If so you can (and should have) sanded the cork road bed with a 6 in sanding block. I use 80 grit paper and it cuts pretty quick. It makes the cork level from side to side, and you can get rid of some pretty tall high spots that way as well. Low spots you need to shim like suggested.
As far as wire ties or gluing the coupler together, if it work, it works. I have done that with some passenger cars in the past.