hminky Every time there is a query about nineteenth century railroading the ten guys interested in that era chime in. There is no commercial viability for this era, there AIN'T enough of us guys.Most of the models have to be larger for the toy train people that inhabit the hobby, the majority. Most will say, "Why do we need another 4-4-0, I already have one to run on my Giggle and HeeHaw". The bulk of the people in the hobby are interested in running their trains on their platform. As my brother observed: "If model trains were a branch of military modeling, the practitioners would be playing with toy soldiers in a sandbox".Bitter as that sounds that is the hobby. Harold
Every time there is a query about nineteenth century railroading the ten guys interested in that era chime in. There is no commercial viability for this era, there AIN'T enough of us guys.
Most of the models have to be larger for the toy train people that inhabit the hobby, the majority. Most will say, "Why do we need another 4-4-0, I already have one to run on my Giggle and HeeHaw". The bulk of the people in the hobby are interested in running their trains on their platform. As my brother observed: "If model trains were a branch of military modeling, the practitioners would be playing with toy soldiers in a sandbox".
Bitter as that sounds that is the hobby.
Harold
If military modeling were a branch of model railroading, the jeeps would move, the cannons would shoot, and you could buy the stuff at a local hobby shop.
Guys playing toy soldiers in the sandbox are doing things with the models. That's what makes model railroading different - you develop a world with action, a world where you are a participant not an observer.
BTW I don't have anything against the military modeling or other static modeling hobbies, but they really aren't the same thing as most model railroading is practiced.
Getting back to the 4-4-0. I think the models that Bachmann has of the Ma&Pa would have more appeal. The Ma&Pa scrapped it's last 4-4-0 in 1952 and a few years later it's last 2-8-0's, 4-6-0's, and 0-6-0's with slope back tender. All but one 2-8-0 were built in the early 1900's before WWI and modernized shortly after WWI with electric headlights, etc.. So if you run steam, any of these are correct as far as era, but especially so in the most popular era to model which is the 1950's. More importantly, they look like they fit the era.
The balloon stackers, as cute as they are, don't look like they fit even if the V&T did many manage to hang on long enough for tourists and movie makers. (An aside, they didn't bother to reletter the Virginia and Truckee engine used in "Gods and Generals" - guess they figured having Virginia in the name was close enough! ).
Enjoy
Paul
I tend to forget that the US model railroading market is not as big as I thought it is, given the size of the nation.
For me as a foreigner, there are a few things so very much "American":
Sir Madog I tend to forget that the US model railroading market is not as big as I thought it is, given the size of the nation. For me as a foreigner, there are a few things so very much "American": Hamburger and Hot Dogs Coca Cola Cadillacs Pick-up trucks John Wayne Western Movies 4-4-0´s Jeeps Hershey Bar Root Beer Base Ball Football Cheerleaders Weber BBQ´s etc. I am really disappointed to see, that this, IMHO, important piece of US history, finds so little representation in our hobby.
I am really disappointed to see, that this, IMHO, important piece of US history, finds so little representation in our hobby.
Ulrich, While the US is much larger physicly than Germany, our population is only about 4 times that of Germany.
We still, and always will, have great, vast, uninhabited areas, and rural areas of sparse population.
And when it comes to railroading, our history is much more diverse and fragmented than that of ANY country in Euorpe. So, even assuming similar percentages of the population are modelers or railfans, the net result is fewer modelers or railfans per prototype rail line, era, region, etc.
We have a history of hundreds of railroads, with seperate management, goals, needs, resources, challenges, geography, etc.
Sure the big ones are popular and well known, and some small ones have recieved world wide fame and note also. But by and large each US railroad of note is a seperate case study all its own, similar to the history of railroads in your country. But multiply that by 4 (number of modolers/railfans) than divide it by 50 or 100. The "modelers per railroad" ratio is much lower in our country.
As for your list, well its fun, but many of those things are only on the radar of older Americans these days.
One other note, if I was to take an interest in this era of modeling, I have to agree with some others that it would have to be in a larger scale like S or O.
Sheldon
Sir Madog I tend to forget that the US model railroading market is not as big as I thought it is, given the size of the nation. For me as a foreigner, there are a few things so very much "American": Hamburger and Hot Dogs ...
Funny, when I think of Germany, Hamburg and Frankfurt specifically, I think of hamburgers and hot dogs. In fact, I've eaten a hamburger (Hessburger brand) in front of the Hamburg Rathaus and two frankfurters in the Frankfurt airport. Checked off two of life's goals that trip!
Seems like one can never get a baked potato in a western Europe restaurant. Potatoes are alway served "French" fried except for the occasional boiled.
Also seems like there are a lot of "Bad" towns in western Germany. Oh, you say "Bad" (pronounced "baud") means bath, as in Roman bath.
Love the railroads in Germany. One can ride a wide variety of trains, from Doodlebugs to the speedy ICE. And the railroad staff one meets is courteous and professional, leastwise to tourists.
Mark, sometimes said to look like a Bavarian (is that an insult?)
I have the feeling that the hobby of model railroading is much wider spread in German than in the US, relative to the size of the population. It is a very well accepted hobby, and even leading politicians "confess" to get their relaxation from "playing" with trains. Mainstream model railroading activities center around Deutsche Bahn (German Railway) or Deutsche Reichsbahn (formerly the East German Railway). Other than really exotic types, there is hardly a gap in the locomotive roster. If it weren´t for the prices of that stuff, Germany could be called a model railroader´s heaven...
In the US, I gather, railroads play only a very small role in public awareness and that may reflect into the hobby as well. Take out the German stuff in the Walther´s Reference book and it will be only half the volume!
So, how do I get a decent looking and running 4-4-0 ? Change the period to 1900 and buy the Bachmann Spectrum Ma&Pa 4-4-0? Btw, one would think that this loco has a smaller market potential than the "General" or the "Reno" etc.
Sir MadogSo, how do I get a decent looking and running 4-4-0 ? Change the period to 1900 and buy the Bachmann Spectrum Ma&Pa 4-4-0? Btw, one would think that this loco has a smaller market potential than the "General" or the "Reno" etc.
Bachmann Spectrum is usually very careful not to duplicate anything already done when they look at new tooling. There are a few exceptions, like their PRR K-4 (the first Spectrum locomotive). Examples: Bachmann has not done another USRA 2-8-2 or 4-6-2. The Shay was made to be significantly different (larger prototype) than the MDC/Roundhouse version.
Making yet another General or Reno would not be financially smart as existing models would drag the price down. And the holder of the existing tooling could launch another production run at any time, and undercut Bachmann's price since the tooling is paid for.
I agree with Harold M. At best, most modelers that have a passing interest in steam might be persuaded to buy one 19th Century model - and that would mainly for display or running around a loop with some suitable cars. They are not going to pay the $300 needed to produce an excellent 4-4-0. Only those few of us who model early rail will buy more than one.
A telling statistic is PSC/MMI's attempt to get an HOn3 4-4-0 off the ground. To date, they haven't gotten 150 pre-orders, and they barely hit that number in On3/On30. Realistically, my guess is that you would be in deep trouble if you produced more than 300 1880s 4-4-0s in standard gauge at $300 - and that price point won't work for that small a batch. That's all it would take to saturate the market. The same number (or even less) would apply to a Civil War era model. Remember, like it or not, there are thousands of Bachmann, IHC, and Mantua 4-4-0s that despite their issues, aren't going away anytime soon. And at the higher end are the used PFM and other brass locos.
Bachmann chose the Maryland & Pennsylvania prototype for several reasons:
just my thoughts and speculation.
Fred W
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
Sir Madog...So, how do I get a decent looking and running 4-4-0 ? Change the period to 1900 and buy the Bachmann Spectrum Ma&Pa 4-4-0? Btw, one would think that this loco has a smaller market potential than the "General" or the "Reno" etc.
As I tried to point out above. The market potential may be larger, since the Ma&Pa scrapped their last one in 1952 which takes it into the popular transition era.
IRONROOSTER Sir Madog... So, how do I get a decent looking and running 4-4-0 ? Change the period to 1900 and buy the Bachmann Spectrum Ma&Pa 4-4-0? Btw, one would think that this loco has a smaller market potential than the "General" or the "Reno" etc. As I tried to point out above. The market potential may be larger, since the Ma&Pa scrapped their last one in 1952 which takes it into the popular transition era. Enjoy Paul
Sir Madog... So, how do I get a decent looking and running 4-4-0 ? Change the period to 1900 and buy the Bachmann Spectrum Ma&Pa 4-4-0? Btw, one would think that this loco has a smaller market potential than the "General" or the "Reno" etc.
I could see that there would be more of a larger market for it since it is associated with the transitional era. I'd think that familiarity would be the issue here. Unless one is more familiar with a specific era, be it through memory or through what they know through what was actually studied, it would be hard to market something like that.
BTW--the comments about the current models not being very good regarding pulling power need to remember that prototypically the 4-4-0 as a type were never really that great to begin with---the diameter of the driver wheels and the 'unbalanced' nature of the trucksets were problematic---IIRC the 4-4-4 idea turned out even worse---
My favorite is still the little 2-6-0
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Ulrich,
Not to go to far off your topic, but I too will offer some insight into the popularity of the Ma & Pa.
I actually live in a house who's orginal 8 acres (now only 1 acre) bordered the Ma & Pa right of way here in our little village of Forest Hill, MD.
The tracks are gone but signs of the right of way remain and the station still stands. The Station is a model train shop today. Much of the right of way is a hiking trail. The Ma & Pa injoyed a last fling of railfan excursions in the early 50's and thereby ingraned itself into the minds of many railroad fans then.
Additonally, because steam lasted well into the 1950's, it was well documented by several local historians.
And it played a key roll in the develeopement of this whole area, example, our house, built in 1901, the same time the railroad was convered to standard gauge, received much of its building materials via the Ma & Pa.
There is likely as much "data" about the Ma & Pa from 1901 to 1956, as there is about "nationaly famious" locos like the General.
Information means abilty to model accurately, and that alone attracts some modelers.
There may well be a greater percentage of modelers in Germany than here, no evidence either way from where I sit. But as I said before, there is so much more here to potentially model (at least 50x) and only 4 times the people to be potentially interested in it.
You commented about nearly full rosters being available? How many locos is that? The B&O Railroad alone had over 200 different identified classes of steam locos. Addmitted some could hardly be distinguished from each other, but even by wheel arrangement, they had dozens of classes.
blownout cylinderMy favorite is still the little 2-6-0
Within the last week there have been an unusual number of threads, at least five, about older steamers. Two seem to stand out in my mind as stmiulating this interest. The first was the one about the Civil War layout setting in Atlanta GA and the second was the reaction to Factory Direct Trains blow out sale of their latest steamer, NYC J1E. The ones in between, however, were the most informative and interesting.
After reading these threads about the older steamers I realized that they were absent in my train roster. Using info gleamed from these threads I started looking at my internet hobby shops and decided on a Spectrum 4-6-0 w/s from Micro Mark as reccomended as having the best price in one of the threads. They also had the 4-4-0 but since I had to choose I thought the 4-4-0 looked a little too old for my transition era layout.
As for the number of cars it can pull, it really doesn't matter as my layout limits that number as well and I'm guessing that trains weren't very long at that time anyway.
My bet is that I'm not the only one buying steam this week and that the vendors will see a pop in sales this week.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
Sheldon,
wouldn´t it be a great sight, looking out of your window and one of these Ma&Pa 4-4-0 would steam by...
Talking about roster, after WW I, all German State Railways, i.e from Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria etc were merged to form Deutsche Reichsbahn, who after paying reparation to the Grand Alliance, was in desperate need for new motive power. They standardized the design very much to guarantee interchangeability of parts. This gave the roster of "Einheitslokomotiven" (Standard locos) a "family face" - similar to what the PRR did. In total, there were some 30 different "classes" of locos covering the range. A lot of them are available in HO scale. In addition to those locos, many of the pre-WW I designs remained in service, blowing the number of different design up way over the 200 mark. If you model the early 1930 era, chances that you will be able to stock up with most of them are pretty good, as a number of smaller, shop-type companies fill the gap the mass-producers have left. But again, don´t ask for the price.
Incidentally, one of the last steam locos to got out of service in the late 1970´s was an old Prussian P 8 4-6-0, designed and built in 1906, after more than 70 years of active service!
it looked like this:
Thanks for all the info!
At the turn of the century, SP used ten locomotives to haul its transcontinental passenger train running between San Francisco and New Orleans, via Los Angeles. American 4-4-0 types were used except for 4-6-0s (double-headed upgrade, one locomotive downgrade) for crossing the Tehachapi Mountains in southern California. Later use of all-metal cars (so-called heavyweights) and growing train length called for more powerful locomotives.
Mark
Sir Madog Talking about roster, after WW I, all German State Railways, i.e from Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria etc were merged to form Deutsche Reichsbahn, who after paying reparation to the Grand Alliance, was in desperate need for new motive power. They standardized the design very much to guarantee interchangeability of parts. This gave the roster of "Einheitslokomotiven" (Standard locos) a "family face" - similar to what the PRR did. In total, there were some 30 different "classes" of locos covering the range. A lot of them are available in HO scale. In addition to those locos, many of the pre-WW I designs remained in service, blowing the number of different design up way over the 200 mark. If you model the early 1930 era, chances that you will be able to stock up with most of them are pretty good, as a number of smaller, shop-type companies fill the gap the mass-producers have left. But again, don´t ask for the price. Incidentally, one of the last steam locos to got out of service in the late 1970´s was an old Prussian P 8 4-6-0, designed and built in 1906 after more than 70 years of active service!
Incidentally, one of the last steam locos to got out of service in the late 1970´s was an old Prussian P 8 4-6-0, designed and built in 1906 after more than 70 years of active service!
Ulirch,
You are most welcome for the info and thank you for the same from your end. Just imagine, a history similar to what you discibed from your country, repeated on 25 or 35 seperate principal railroads as small lines consolidated into those big lines here. Standard parts?, the only standard parts here where the ones that came from outside vendors and where used by all/most of the builders and railroads. Things like Delta trailing trucks, Commonweath tender trucks, Worthington or Elasco feed water heaters, etc. After that get out your tools, fire up the forge, crank up the lathe, or call Baldwin, Lima or ALCO and have one made. That is why so many of the large railroads here had their own massive shops and could build all or most of a loco from scratch, as many did.
Surely every modeler here would like his favorite lines as well represented as what you discribe is available in your country, regardless of cost. But I don't think we will ever see that day.
That 4-6-0 is very interesting. That wheel arangement was very long lasting here as well. While quickly bumped from mainline service on larger lines as trains got heavier/longer, they lasted for many years on small lines and the feeder branches of the big lines, some lasting right up to the end of steam, including on the Ma & Pa.
Another example of a very popular US loco poorly represented in model form today (although the selection in brass has been fair over the years). So again the call to the manufacturers, I may not buy a 4-4-0, but a post 1900, modern large boiler 4-6-0 would be something I would buy a six pack of.
As a collector I guess my input won't really matter as much on this issue, but I just want to say, just because I tend to favor larger steam engines from the 1940's, this doesn't mean that I lack a soft spot for classic little steamers like the 4-4-0 or the 2-6-0.
I for one would love to see some high quality HO models of these two engines, I would buy several of them if they ever came out.
Keep in mind though, as already pointed out, there are other scales that have made these available. O gauge really has some nice 4-4-0's out there, highly detailed die cast ones with great motors. If the third rail can't be tolerated, I'm sure these engines could be modified for 2 rail operation on an O scale layout.
Back to HO though, I wish that Bachmann would release their old 4-4-0's in the Spectrum series, this time around with crisper detail and higher quality motors.
Imagine if this level of detail could be compressed to HO.
A common thread in this discussion is that few 4-4-0 models have been produced, because the market is too small to cover investment costs. There is probably some truth to that view. Big firms largely focus on well established markets and bring out products for which the demand is clearly demonstrated, though that often means competing for a limited market share with others. But catering to well-established markets can be problematic, as IBM and GM discovered, and it may be more lucrative to create new markets with products like IPods and Priuses for which no demand is initially proven.Bachmann’s success with On30 equipment shows that even big companies can succeed with this approach in the model industry. Early On3 equipment was hardly in great demand a decade ago, much less On30. Yet Bachmann ventured into On30 in a big way and built a new market that’s now one of the model train industry’s growth areas. Bachmann’s success probably depended upon producing not just one but several well-made locomotives (including a 4-4-0) and a whole line of rolling stock, so that a modeler didn’t have to worry about obtaining enough equipment. Access to Chinese capital and labor also helped, given Bachmann’s focus on mass production of moderately priced injection molded models.
But innovative products don’t have to be based on this approach. In most industries, today mass sales have given way to niche marketing, that is, focusing on a smaller, more defined market segment. Railmaster (http://www.railmasterhobbies.com/loco.htm), a small New Zealand firm, has shown this can work with regard to an even smaller segment of early model railroading. It offers a line of metal kits for U.S. narrow gauge locomotives in Sn3. The fact that this is the major gauge modeled in New Zealand no doubt gave it a production advantage. But its ultimate success owed more to developing a full line of quality U.S. models (including a 4-4-0) using a limited production method. Of course, this approach means that its kits cost more than mass produced plastic models (and modelers have to supply their own labor to complete them).
But in niche marketing, price is less of factor than in mass marketing. SMR’s successful production of brass O scale Civil War and other mid-nineteenth century locomotives shows that. Producing a small number of quality hand-made models, it relies on a few buyers who are willing to pay the higher per item costs that this sort of production entails. Still, it seems to find them. And who would argue that when SMR first ventured into this production that there was a demonstrated market for high-end O gauge Civil War models. And its success seems to be drawing others to offer more early O scale models.
So, I agree that chances are slim that big, traditional model firms will risk producing a quality mid-nineteenth century HO American right now. But I think the reason has more to do with their business approach than the lack of a potential market. No one will know what that potential market is until someone tests it as effectively as Bachmann did with On30.
It will probably take a smaller, more innovative firm with some special interest in this period and experience in small-scale production to undertake such a venture first. BTS, just such a firm, has already announced interest in issuing an O scale American. Perhaps it will follow suit in HO. Given its existing freight car kits, this would provide the kind of full line of rolling stock that nineteenth century modeling may need before it appeals to a broader clientele. At that point, maybe even Bachmann will consider entering this niche with a Spectrum quality replacement for its aging Centennial models. But if other industries are any indication, it's the smaller newcomers now, not the established giants, who find and develop the new opportunities that others don't see.
Frank
I have no room what so ever for a G-scale layout, but those large Bachmann old timers are gorgeous.
I have been sorely tempted more than once to simply get one to display and the 2-6-0 is equally good looking
Actually although not a numerous as the "Americans" the "moguls" were almost as ubiquitous to mid 19th century pioneer railroading, and with the exception of a few brass releases over the years nobody has bothered with an 1870's early mogul in true HO scale. (I'm sorry, but the things called moguls put out by Mantua and Roundhouse don't even come close to this)
VoyagerA common thread in this discussion is that few 4-4-0 models have been produced, because the market is too small to cover investment costs. There is probably some truth to that view. Big firms largely focus on well established markets and bring out products for which the demand is clearly demonstrated, though that often means competing for a limited market share with others. But catering to well-established markets can be problematic, as IBM and GM discovered, and it may be more lucrative to create new markets with products like IPods and Priuses for which no demand is initially proven.
The idea here would be that one has to GROW a market but the problem appears to be that there needs to be some kind of invesstment beyond just the money to do this----we may be facing a kind of lack of enthusiasm on the mfg's part to invest time and effort as well---never mind monetary investment. It may very well be that there may be as well a lack of vision here---think of this for a moment---many of us are not modelling the big mainlines or the giant coal drags that Erie had---or the Virginians etc. A lot of us model small branchlines or shortlines or some such----'moguls' were produced by the barrelfull for the RR's yet we find that, in general, there is a derth of moguls or any such sized locomotives around for the modeller---where is the vision to see a potential market here?
VoyagerA common thread in this discussion is that few 4-4-0 models have been produced, because the market is too small to cover investment costs. There is probably some truth to that view. Big firms largely focus on well established markets and bring out products for which the demand is clearly demonstrated, though that often means competing for a limited market share with others.
... and that´s exactly why we see UP 9000 from both MTH and BLI, GG1 from Trix and BLI, the 4th version of USRA locos etc.
It takes a good dose of entrepreneurial spirit to develop a market for a new product. But if you only think in single production batches and short term profits, than you just invest into seemingly secure businesses.
VoyagerSo, I agree that chances are slim that big, traditional model firms will risk producing a quality mid-nineteenth century HO American right now. But I think the reason has more to do with their business approach than the lack of a potential market. No one will know what that potential market is until someone tests it as effectively as Bachmann did with On30.
Basically the one who enters the market now, owns the market because there is esentially no competition. Roundhouse is basically the only player and they only have 3 freight cars in the market. I have Bachmann Spectrum, Mantua and Roundhouse engines and the Roundhouse engines are the best runners out of the box. The key is having all wheel electrical pickup on the tender.
Everybody keeps saying no manufacturer will invest in new tooling, but Roundhouse has retooled its boxcars at least 2 or 3 times, has retooled its 36 ft underframes (metal to plastic) has completely redone its drive train, completely retooled the boiler castings and dramatically upgraded the paint schemes. Manuta has redone the drive train and has a DCC friendly quick disconnect drawbar and better drive train. Considering that virtually all the 1800's era cars and engines have been in production for 30-40 years, while they may not have a high volume, one time sales, they do sell over the long term.
One of the resin casters has producted a boxcar that by changing some details, can be built into any one of a half dozen different door configurations (two or three types, some open right, some open left) and as a boxcar, ventilated boxcar or reefer, and all are prototypical. This type of concept would be perfect for a plastic boxcar.
I cannot figure out why Roundhouse has never put a gondola superstructure on their 36 ft underframe. A nice 3 or 4 board high, wooden stake, wood side gon. It would give them a model that NOBODY else sells/has ever sold in plastic and was probably the 2nd most common car type until about 1905 (if you lump hopper bottom gons, drop bottom gons and plain gons together). One casting and any 1880-1920 era layout that handles coal or iron products can use dozens of them. If they could sell 6 packs of any TOC car, the gon (or hopper bottom gon) would be the one.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman Everybody keeps saying no manufacturer will invest in new tooling, but Roundhouse has retooled its boxcars at least 2 or 3 times, has retooled its 36 ft underframes (metal to plastic) has completely redone its drive train, completely retooled the boiler castings and dramatically upgraded the paint schemes.
Everybody keeps saying no manufacturer will invest in new tooling, but Roundhouse has retooled its boxcars at least 2 or 3 times, has retooled its 36 ft underframes (metal to plastic) has completely redone its drive train, completely retooled the boiler castings and dramatically upgraded the paint schemes.
The latest changes to Roundhouse engines and rolling stock had little to do with innovation, but simply the fact that they got acquired 3 or 4 years ago by the Horizon Hobby conglomerate. At that point all their existing dies and manufactured stock were sent to China for re-tooling and re-production as all RTR.
If you want to see Horizon's focus on hobbies, go to their web site. You will see pictures of people flying RC airplanes and not people playing with model trains. These are the same people that are discontinuing Athern blue box kits.
Consequently, I would not expect much innovation from Roundhouse since they simply are not the company that they once were.
All kits and anything other than HO scale are totally gone.
If you visit their website you will see all old time engines discontinued as of 2007. About the only thing new are various releases of their standard old time boxcars, reefers, coaches, and shorty steel girder flats---all RTR and all produced in China.
Life goes on, I guess.
J W Bowker The latest changes to Roundhouse engines and rolling stock had little to do with innovation, but simply the fact that they got acquired 3 or 4 years ago by the Horizon Hobby conglomerate. At that point all their existing dies and manufactured stock were sent to China for re-tooling and re-production as all RTR. If you want to see Horizon's focus on hobbies, go to their web site. You will see pictures of people flying RC airplanes and not people playing with model trains. These are the same people that are discontinuing Athern blue box kits. Consequently, I would not expect much innovation from Roundhouse since they simply are not the company that they once were. All kits and anything other than HO scale are totally gone. If you visit their website you will see all old time engines discontinued as of 2007. About the only thing new are various releases of their standard old time boxcars, reefers, coaches, and shorty steel girder flats---all RTR and all produced in China.
Here is where a market can be MADE.Again, we need a sense of possibilities. Any idea that starts off saying well, so and so did such and such and it fell on its dupka should be met with--did they do their research? Was anything even done---that kind of thing. Read these forums and ask yourselves this question. Could this be the start of a market? And if so then it can be built on. One has to BUILD this market by doing the research--who are your POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS, WHAT are they LOOKING FOR---and WHY.
So. I get piculous and get I start getting the ol' nose out of joint. I start asking questions. I'm building up what ever menial skills I have and start experimenting with various materials and eventually something comes together----I do assume that, in some miserable way those who placed themselves/families/friends into some kind of business thing--Varney, who really knows how many out there--kind of had to take some kind of a risk. Maybe that is at the center of this? It is risky?
One can essentially kvetch all they want about how no one produces X, Y or even GHT but that situation will never change if no one does the work of actually BUILDING that market. If at the end of all this no one has done the dang work then it'll be another example of wish fullfillment. Nothing else.
Locomotive of all American fame - watch this little video and see the wheel arrangement!
Now I know why I want a 4-4-0. Did you see the way it took the clothes off that woman as it went by? I just need to lure the wife into the trainroom and we'll be in business.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Well, I be dang if I didn't fall for my own hype about how pretty those G scale Bachmann moguls are and even though I don't plan on switching to, or even running, G scale, I went and bought one tonight off of Evilbay.
It;s the exact same model in the picture I posted with the exception of having the Baldwin Locomotive Works printed on the tender. I only gave $185 for it which is pretty cheap for a MIB model that originally had an MSRP of $850. Of course I realize they sell cheaper than that but most shops still want more than double what I paid.
These are supposedly copies of the one of the two Baldwins (the other was the 4-4-0) that ran folks around the 1876 centennial exposition in Philadelphia. I guess I'll get a display case for it an put it on the mantle. Isn't it fun to have the model train bug!
There were quite a few threads this past week about steamers, particulary old ones. It caused me to think about the engines I have for the transition era that I'm modeling, seven diesels and only one steamer, a BLI light Mikado w/s.
The more I saw of the 4 4 0 and realized there are so few old steamers of any configuration available I knew I was going to buy something.
The 4 4 0 took me back to the days of "yester year" when the Clantons, Daltons, ets (wearing black hats) stopped the trains for easy cash while Bob Steele, Johnny MacBrown, The Lone Ranger, and others (wearing white hats of course) chased the bad guys down. In case some of you got lost ask your parents about the Saturday afternoon westerns.
Soooooo I decided that the Spectrum was getting the best reviews and that 4 6 0 would look more believeable with my other locos. It was also available in DCC W/S. Shortly after I made the decision my lovely wife asked what she could get me for Christmas. NEED I SAY MORE !
It arrived on Thursday and she said I couldn't open the box, but I explained that it would need to be tested. I ran it for about 1/2 hour and took pictures. I'll get it back on Christmas morning giffed wraped and all.
Merry Christmas,
Good for you, Bob! Let the force of steam be with you. You may eventually come back completely from the dark side of diesel !