Am looking for suggestions for an effective and reliable means of bridging and/or spanning an entry/doorway in my train room. The span is about 6ft long; the height would be about 40inches above the floor. A permanent "duck-under" is impractical because of health reasons. I tried making a swing-away, dutch-door kind of thing, but the hinge area seems weak and potentially troublesome. So, any other suggestions would really be appreciated. Thanks,
"G Flash"
I am assuming the span would be open when the layout is not in operation, and that normal operations do not require going through the opening. My assumed scenario is essentially that you close the gap behind you when you go into the layout to operate, and that you don't open back up until you are done with operations. For construction, maintenance, and other non-operational activities, the doorway remains open at all times.
If the above assumed scenario is accurate, and part of your layout is against the wall, I recommend you use a simple U or box beam liftout section to span the gap. Store it on a wall-mounted shelf above the layout when not in use. That's why I am doing with a 60" section that spans a wide window (also emergency exit) that separates two sections of my shelf layout. Make sure the ends where the liftout drops in are well supported and fastened to the floor or wall.
The liftout is the simplest and easiest way to span long gaps without the hassles of a more complex hinged arrangement. But it will not be optimum for every situation.
I believe in KISS.
Fred W
My Santa Fe covers most of the basement encompassing two rooms with walls, etc. The top deck and the middle deck are the only ones that require access. The top deck is 65" from the floor and I have a narrow permanent deck piece that I duck under. No big deal. There is a bridge on the second deck however that I set up with hinges to lift up. that one gets action during a session and I have no problems with it. Just a little care in design to keep the track alignment. When not operating, I do leave it in the up position. Without seeing a photo of your lift up area can't give you any tips on your alignment, but mine comes off at the end that goes up with a slight curve and I am able to maintain gauge and height with little problem.
I have only had one person that has a problem with the duckunder, and that is "Tiny" who owns Odd Ball Decals, and he is so tall anyway that he has to bend his head in parts of the basement. It is fun though to watch him "duck under".
Bob
There have been a number of articles on drop-down, swing down and lift out gates in MR and RMC. One of the key safety features is having electrical and physical interlocks to prevent locomotives or loose rolling stock from running off the end of the track when the gate is removed. Electrically, limit switchs on both sides of the opening that are normally open when the gate is removed should be installed and connected to 1 to 3 feet of track. The length depends on the length of your biggest locomotive including mutltiple unit lash-ups. Physically, a piece of wood set on the track will stop rolling stock; also a turnout set as a derail could safely dump a rolling car on the benchwork instead of the floor.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
For that long a span, I would use a piece of steel stud. This is essentially a 2x4 made of steel. It's lightweight, very strong and very stiff. Build supports at each end, and lift it off when you want to go in and out of the room.
For the protection of your trains, have bridge sides along the entire length. Girder or deck sides are fine, and you might want to put a longer section of truss bridge in the center for some scenic variety.
Off-topic, but 40 inches is kind of low. My layout is about that height. It's fine for working on the layout, and for running trains, but what a pain when you need to get underneath to do wiring.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
A fellow forum member has told me that I should not answer a question if I do not have an answer; another feels that I "find it necessary to add my two cents worth to every topic on the forum." I, sir, do not have a definitive answer to your question but here's my two cents worth anyway.
Let me say this: I am beyond the age of getting down on hands-and-knees and crawling under benchwork; I can do it in a pinch--and I will have to, of course, on my new layout in which instance I will be able to use some sort of a "creeper"; getting down is not the problem--getting back up is--and my legs are sometimes so weak that I have an extremely difficult time getting back on my feet without some sort of arm support. Remember the old "I've fallen and I can't get up!" scenario. I'm not quite in that bad a shape--at least not yet.
Purely and simply, if you can't "duck-under" then your choice is a bridge which is going to have to be either movable or removable. (Note: I do have an alternative which I will get to shortly.) I have never encountered an instance of a "removable" bridge although I do recall one covered in the hobby press--it was on a club layout if I remember correctly. Your posting indicates that you have already built some sort of apparatus for bridging this gap but that your
". . . . . . . . . . hinge area seems weak and potentially troublesome."
Your posting indicates that you have a six-foot gap that needs to be bridged. Six foot is a heckuva lot of lumber to move and will require some sturdy hingework. Unless you have an extremely high ceiling--or extremely low benchwork--your bridge will not have room to swing open a full 90° although, with reasonable heighth benchwork, the passageway in this instance will probably be wide enough to avoid creasing your noggin! And, unless your benchwork is going to be six feet off the floor--in which case you will probably be able to just walk under the platform with a minimum amount of stooping--any bridge dropping downward into your gap is going to leave you with a rather narrow passageway requiring a "step-over" for access.
Now, what would I do? I would eliminate the need for a movable structure by building my benchwork high enough to allow the use of a roll-around chair for a trolley. I have encountered this idea on several occasions and it has always worked although these individuals had planned on it from the git-go and had constructed their benchwork accordingly. It could probably be made to work in your instance assuming, of course, that you have constructed reasonably heighth benchwork.
My answer here is not actualy(sp) providing any usefull(sp) information. I have absolutely no experience whatsoever constructing a bridge across a gap; furthermore I could not design a specific bridge for you without examining the cribwork on both sides of your gap . . . . . . . . . . but at least I have gotten my two cents worth in!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
MisterBeasley For that long a span, I would use a piece of steel stud. This is essentially a 2x4 made of steel. It's lightweight, very strong and very stiff. Build supports at each end, and lift it off when you want to go in and out of the room.
Darn! Beat me to it. Of course, for me this is an automatic. My entire benchwork structure is built of steel stud material.
If scenery isn't required, just turn the stud open side up and run your track down the rain gutter thus formed. Built-in guardrails, priceless.
To alleviate the pain, bring all your wiring (and switch machine mechanicals) out to the layout edge, along the fascia line. Push the wire down through a drilled hole through the subgrade, fish it out (I use a straightened wire coat hanger) and do your wiring seated on a chair in the aisleway.
I don't have a need for a lift-out bridge, but I do use steel studs for cassettes ranging up to 56.5 inches in length. One of those, with a full-length train of sheet steel (no lie!!) cars, weighs less than an equivalent length of Douglas Fir 2x4. (Hmmm. Wonder how I came up with that length?)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on top of a LOT of steel studs)
Hi,
A 6 foot span is equal to two 3 foot spans. Make two doors that hinge on either side, and meet in the middle. A simple slide bolt should do to keep the two doors together. When not in use, they swing open to reveal the 6 foot opening.
Blaine
Blaine's
Commit random acts of kindness and senseless beauty.
~G4
19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.
I have two such areas (one at 6 ft and the other 4 ft, each 6-inches wide) and followed the previously suggested lift-out section. I constructed both from 1/2-inch plywood with 1-inch dense foam sub bed. I used 1 x 2 full length runners screwed on edge into the plywood to form a girder (1 each side and 1 in the middle of the width and installed before applying the foam). I used coarse threaded drywall screws every 3 inches.
The load is static and even the 6 foot section weighes less than 5 pounds. I use 2 spring clamps at each end ($0.99 each at the orange box) to anchor the lift out to the stationary framing.
I got on my computer upstairs where my lists are; here are some articles on swing gates and lift-outs:
MR 3-98 Build a Swinging Gate for Easy Access
RMC 8-01 Building a Lift-Out Track Section
RMC 7-07 Building a Model Railroad Gate (scenicked with bridge)
MR 8-03 Ending the Duckunder Blues (swing gate)
You can order reprints from the publishers
I like the door idea, too. If you buy one cheap luan door, you can cut it in two and have the pair of half-doors meet in the middle. For overall ease of use, though, I still think a single steel stud bridge is the way to go. By the way, I take no credit for the steel stud idea. That belongs to Chuck. Yeah, I beat him to the punch on this one, but I'm on the East coast and I've got a 2-hour time advantage.
I'd also suggest paying attention to good electrical interlocking on this. Make sure the bridge track and even more important the approach tracks go dead if everything isn't exactly right. Trains do a lot of things really well, but plummeting isn't one of them.
There is a lift out on my home layout. The layout is a shelf layout that goes around all four walls of the room. The layout is four feet off the floor. The lift out is 38 inches. There is a short scenicked area on each end. The main part is three Atlas girder bridges on Atlas piers. The part under the bridges is made to look like a river.
The lift out is made from a 1X4 with lath glued and nailed on each side. This made a watertight area to add the resin "Water". The lift out fits into a slot in the benchwork and there are two studs with wingnuts on each end that keep the lift out lined up and in place.
Electrical connections are made with plug ins. There is two feet of track on each end that goes dead when the lift out is not in place. On one end there is a switch that can be lined to the engine house to keep from using the line to the not there lift out. The other end has a dummy piece that goes where the lift out would be to keep anything from going off the end.
Swing Gate:
Hinges:
Latch. Diagonal cut mount keeps it tight:
Electric and electronic stuff. Board is hinged at the top and swings up out of sight:
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
It has been said many times by some very seriously qualified model railroaders the best thing you can do when it comes to duck unders is simply DON'T! How ever in the real world where we don't have all the space we would like and or the track plan that does not warrant a duck under we are forced to use them. Except in the case of a guy I met a few years a go. He had a house very similar in layout to mine where the basement stairs came against an outside wall, so what did he do, yes he moved the stairs towards the center of the basement so you entered the inside area of the future layout. Now I realize myself included this is a case of extreme train-nutness. So I suggest when it comes to sections that must move apply the KISS principle. Make it as simple and as functionally durable as you possibly can. I will agree in principal that a steel stud would be very effective but I myself shied away form steel studs an stuck with a 1x4 piece of pine supported on both sides by a piece of 3/8" aluminum angel screwed and glued to the 1x4. There is no way that thing will ever sag or warp.I am guaranteed 100% track alignment by the use of 2 3/8" dowels for locating pins.
Yes swing gated work fine but they require a bit more engineering and as mentioned carpentry skills. The area where the hinges will be mounted needs to be very strong and totally free of all movement as well as a reliable fastening mechanism will be needed when the gate is closed. I pulled the idea for my lift out section from a guy on youtube
I personally feel 6' is a long span to use a swing type bridge as you will need extremely tough hinges to something that long.
With a 6 ft span a swing span will be difficult to do. You need so heavy duty hinges on the one end to support all that cantilevered weight unless there's some support on the unhinged end like a leg with a caster to allow it to roll. The other problem with a 6 ft swing is having enough room to swing it open to get to the inside.
IMO, the better option is a lift out section that can be store out of the way when the layout is not being operated. Quick thoughts would be to use cabinet grade plywood (no internal voids) cut into 6" wide strips for the sides and even the subroadbed. Recess the subroadbed/roadbed 2 inches so you have sides on the lift out to prevent things from hitting the floor. Extra bracing underneath is need to prevent the section from twisting. I'd use a mounting bracket that self aligning.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=344&filter=flush%20mount
Done right these brackets would align the lift out both vertically and horizontally. A sinple pair of electrical connectors at each end would provide power to the lift out.
Any way you go, don't scrmp on construction. Good solid carpentry and design will be the key.
Mine is about 5 feet long. I made it that large for a reasons unrelated to model railroading. It is not supported on the far end when it is open, but it rests on 2x4 supports on both ends when it is closed.