You can clearly see the catenary system in the background, and I have a beautiful painting of the T1 chugging under the catenary wires. I like the look.
When leaving the station in Harrisburg, what kind of terrain was encountered. Last time I was in Harrisburg was when I was five, I don't remember what it looked like real well. How does its topography compare to the counties surrounding philly like Bucks, Berks, Delaware, Montgomery, Chester, Lancaster ect
No mountains will be on my layout, at this point, it will be more of a diorama, with a T1 under catenary, I think thats the look I'm going for. The rest of the layout I don't know what the terrain past harrisburg is like, slight hills, tunnels, If I model harrisburg, will I need excessive massive grades? My layout is too smal for that.
There had to have been a place where the GG1 dropped the train and the T1 picked it up. Thus the T1 had to run under catenary, even if it was only for a couple of hundred yards.
One scene that sticks in my mind from 1957 Tokyo was a fat, bulldog-ugly Consolidation smoking up the catenary two tracks over from the EMU I was riding. Is it a surprise that my main modeling theme is changing from motors to coalburners, and vice-versa?
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Today I was also wondering if it was possible that at least one T1 ran west towards Harrisburg from Eddystone, PA? Afterall, several T1's were built there at Baldwin Locomotive Works.
Here is a T1 (the early version which makes me drool and its only a short drive away from Philadelphia!
I hope MTH releases the early version of the T1 in HO, their O gauge version is the only one that exists in model railroading.
Please MTH...make one of these babies for HO!
If we told you "no it doesn't make sense", would you not operate the engine?
If you are going to operate it anyway, then it doesn't really matter.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
As noted, there would have to be an area where the trains switched from electric to steam power where you would find steam under the wires. Generally it would be pretty rare for a steam engine to actually be pulling a train in an electrified section. Railroads tended to electrify for a reason, such as a city (like New York) having a ban on steam locomotive smoke, or because the line had long tunnels, or some other reason. Otherwise, they wouldn't have gone to the cost of electrifying the line.
In the west you did have situations like the Great Northern where an electric engine pulled a train - steam locomotive and all - thru the electrified territory though.
The New Haven had electrified four-track main line from New York to New Haven, but on that line, you could see heavy steam pulling freight trains from Devon to New Haven, on account of a junction at Devon where a major, non-electrified branch joined the main. I don't know if you could find a similar justification for heavy steam on the PRR electrified main, but you might!
rjake4454When leaving the station in Harrisburg, what kind of terrain was encountered. Last time I was in Harrisburg was when I was five, I don't remember what it looked like real well. How does its topography compare to the counties surrounding philly like Bucks, Berks, Delaware, Montgomery, Chester, Lancaster ect
I live 15 minutes from the "Burg. Topography will vary depending on the direction out of Harrisburg. Heading west bound you will cross the Susquehanna river, then start hitting the mountains as someone above accurately described. Same thing heading north. But if you're heading South towards Maryland or East towards Lancaster/Philly the terrain flattens out into rolling hills and farmland. If you need pics of the surrounding area or anywhere in particular, PM me and I'll see what I can do to help.
Matt
In 1917 the PRR installed catenary on the helper grade west of Philadelphia (and east of Harrisburg), so you definitely saw steam under catenary there, with a box-cab motor either pulling or pushing the trains. Ex-Great Northern box cabs were used there in the 1950's.
A quick look though _Pennsy Power II_ shows steam under catenary at Dillerville PA, Trenton NJ, Harrisburg, Lawrence NJ, Broad St Stn, Paoli, 30th St Stn, and Princeton Jct. Both pasenger and freight. No T1's though!
I'm on a similar situation; I like the T1 well enough to include it on my otherwise WWII RR (in postwar, stripped-down trim) which has lots of NH and PRR electrics, running under invisible catenary as of this writing.
salt water cowboy I live 15 minutes from the "Burg. Topography will vary depending on the direction out of Harrisburg. Heading west bound you will cross the Susquehanna river, then start hitting the mountains as someone above accurately described. Same thing heading north. But if you're heading South towards Maryland or East towards Lancaster/Philly the terrain flattens out into rolling hills and farmland. If you need pics of the surrounding area or anywhere in particular, PM me and I'll see what I can do to help. Matt
So the T1's in PA ran through mostly mountains and other considerably grades? Did they roam the flat lands as soon entering ohio? Beautiful land I am sure, just extremely hard to model with limited space and resources.
If only the T1 did roam those rolling hills and farmland east of Harrisburg...
I will PM you thanks
If you can, get a hold of the GG-1 edition (Summer 2009) of Classic Trains. On page 28 there's a shot of a GG-1 next to a K4, both with Pennsy keystones on their noses. The whole scene is under wire, and it was taken in November, 1954 in South Amboy, NJ.
The K4 looks like a little engine next to the GG-1.
If you're a GG-1 fan, this issue is a must-have.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I know this is "wrong side of the pond" and a bit off topic but the weekend before last I saw a steamer being pulled backwards on the tail of an excursion train behind a diesel under the wires at Crewe. The diesel was making more smoke than you would have expected the steamer to make flat out with bad coal.
One thing that struck me at once when I looked at the OP was that dirty/smokey coal would create some problems with the feed wire. Smoke is (I think) unburnt chemicals from the fire... as distinct from steam ejected from the cylinders. It would therefore put a layer of muck onto all the overhead fittings in its path (both going up from the chimney and coming back down). This could mess with insulation... which would demand more maintenance.
When conditions are right - usually mist or frost - the passage of a pantograph can be accompanied by a passing crackle of small arcing. I would guess that smoke deposits on the wire would tend to cause the same thing. I've never seen the overhead arc out in a big way but know that it can reach out big time if something gives it a pathway to earth. (We had an incident with youths entertaining themselves throwing scrap wire at the overhead a while back... until the juice reached back and hit them).
Our working limits are no closer than 9 feet when the juice is live.
I seem to recall that a year or so ago there was some discussion about the overhead and dogboxes???
As for steam sooting up the catenary, it certainly does, but I have not read about that causing any problems. Maybe it did. Once upon a time, the Milwaukee staged a shoving competition between their new "Bipolar" electric and a large steam engine. The event was staged on a bridge for spectacular viewing. The electric loco pushed the steam loco backwards; I suppose they could have just looked up the TE specs and stacked the deck, but a publicity stunt is just that, a stunt.
High voltage electricity can burn through quite a lot of filth. On the New Haven, we used to watch the pans from trackside to see the big blue sparks. If I recall correctly (!), F. Scott Fitzgerald described a NH box cab lighting up the landscape at night, in _The Great Gatsby_. It was a spectacular sight. I have heard that there is a model railroad simulator of those big blue sparks that is in development for the working overhead wire modelers.
Dave-the-Train I know this is "wrong side of the pond" and a bit off topic but the weekend before last I saw a steamer being pulled backwards on the tail of an excursion train behind a diesel under the wires at Crewe. The diesel was making more smoke than you would have expected the steamer to make flat out with bad coal. One thing that struck me at once when I looked at the OP was that dirty/smokey coal would create some problems with the feed wire. Smoke is (I think) unburnt chemicals from the fire... as distinct from steam ejected from the cylinders. It would therefore put a layer of muck onto all the overhead fittings in its path (both going up from the chimney and coming back down). This could mess with insulation... which would demand more maintenance. When conditions are right - usually mist or frost - the passage of a pantograph can be accompanied by a passing crackle of small arcing. I would guess that smoke deposits on the wire would tend to cause the same thing. I've never seen the overhead arc out in a big way but know that it can reach out big time if something gives it a pathway to earth. (We had an incident with youths entertaining themselves throwing scrap wire at the overhead a while back... until the juice reached back and hit them). Our working limits are no closer than 9 feet when the juice is live. I seem to recall that a year or so ago there was some discussion about the overhead and dogboxes???
Very interesting stuff, I have always had many of the same questions.
I must find the answer to the dogbox issue.
And 9 feet? Yikes, I didn't know it could arc that far.