dti406 That one was one of the first models that Sunset Imported. Amazing that about 500 (SWAG as I don't have my Brown Book handy) models were built of an engine class that consisted of just 3 prototypes.
That one was one of the first models that Sunset Imported. Amazing that about 500 (SWAG as I don't have my Brown Book handy) models were built of an engine class that consisted of just 3 prototypes.
The 2008 Brass Model Trains Price & Data Guide doesn't show how many of the SP D-class Decapods were made in HO although it shows Sunset imported them in 1976.
Mark
CNJ831, I would like to respond to your 7:44 MST/PDT post of this date.
It is not my intention to be divisive in this posting--although I am quite sure that there are many forum members who find some--if not most--of my postings to be just that. Nevertheless I raise two issues to your response.
You cite Webster's for a definition of 'model'. My Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary--Webster's is vastly inferior to an Oxford model but it's the one I have--at some time in the future when I have $250.00 burning a hole in my pocket I may well possess that 1,700 page, 38# volume but not now--defines model and its suffixations of modeled or modelled; modeling or modelling as:
. . . . . . . . . . 3b: to produce a representation or simulation of 4: to construct or fashion in imitation of a particular model . . . . . . . . . .
When he has these items in hand he grabs his hot smokin' soldering iron and sits down at his hot smokin' workbench and proceeds to demolish his brand-spankin' new circa 1945 locomotive; that done he begins rebuilding it and sooner or later has it to an acceptable circa 1951 engine. He paints, decals, and weathers the locomotive and places it into a place of prideful recognition alongside his growing collection of imported brass locomotives in his display case.
Locomotive #427 will never turn a wheel because Joe is not into what we--you and I--would label "model railroading"--many years ago Joe did build a layout but "model railroading" activity turned out not to be of great interest to him--but I ask this: Is Joe a "model railroader?"; is that label correct only when he has a soldering iron in hand and, since he has no intention of ever operating that beast on a layout, is it even correct then? is it improper to label "collecting" as "model railroading" separate from layout construction and operation? I don't know! and maybe there are some "collectors" who would not really wish to be labeled as a "model railroader!" I usually respond to "Oh! You play with trains" with "No! I model a miniature represention--or, at least, attempt to model a miniature representation--of prototype railroading." Must we really have a layout to define ourselves as engaged in "model railroading?' Surely though Joe-Blow-From-Kokomo's model does appear to fall into Webster's definitions 3b and 4 cited above. Perhaps it is not "model railroading" as you and I would define it but again someone else's "opinion" might well lock it into that category.
One other point which I alluded to in my previous posting. What is
accurate advice
and is there really
essentially only only one correct approach if you wish things to work in the correct manner?
I've goofed up wiring and don't tell me that you haven't also; probably wiring is the one thing that requires that
essentially only one correct approach if you wish things to work in the correct manner.
one correct approach if you wish things to work in the correct manner.
Awhile back I built a switch--about a #11 if I recall correctly; I used the same jig I designed many years ago to facilitate frog assembly; everything seemed to scope out correctly but somewhere or another there was a kink and I was forever putting locomotives and cars on the ties at that location. I never did find the problem and eventually tore it out and put a replacement in its stead . . . . . . . . . . which behaved flawlessly.
Some postings here on the forum detailing roadbed/subroadbed construction has raised certain questions in my mind as to whether there is a more efficient way than my plywood/Homasote®/cork roadbed method. Years ago when I began using that method I did it because I remember reading advocacies in the hobby press--all things about noise and holding spikes, etc, etc. I suppose that it never dawned on me that some modelers would lay their cork roadbed directly on their plywood subroadbed; I find it unfathomable that anyone could construct a layout without Homasote®. I tried L-Girder construction one time but found that a box-structure on my rectangular N-Scale layouts--and, unfortunately, mostly temporary-- was easier to work with. Because I am anticipating my down-the-road layout to be significantly larger than anything I have ever constructied before I will probably use L-Girder construction and may even use splined roadbed. My 3/8' plywood roadbed/1/2" Homasote® /cork roadbed sandwich is the
essentially one correct approach if we wish things to work in the correct manner.
You will, I believe, agree with that statement.
Another matter of recent discussion--and this has almost become a weekly occurance--concerns shelf width. Unless your name is Shaquell O'Neil--and I may have that spelled wrong but can't check it now--or Yao Ming--whose career might just be washed up--then your effective reach is going to be about 27". Were I to be building a shelf layout--and had the room--in the interest of scenery and operation I would construct my shelves to that width. But what if you don't have sufficient room for that 27". Then you have to go narrower which becomes the
essentially one correct approach
When we advocate that there is
essentially one correct approach if we wish things to work in the correct manner
Let me say this there CNJ831, I read almost all of your postings. I find them well-written and informative and I have posted responses in agreement to your advocacies. But there are times when you and I entertain different opinions and I will sometimes air those differences in a response.
For some strange reason I am not particularly interested in The West for a modeling location. I really wish I lived closer to mainline commuter operations. Here in the Desert Southwest we have light rail but that's it in a nutshell; but I always make it a point to see Trains and Locomotives on RFDTV when their feature covers those commuter operations radiating out of New York City or from the West bank of the Hudson. Interesting operation! Interesting operation!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
I want PCM to make a Diecast SP AC-12 with a MSRP of $40. Then I could get one.
"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"
EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION
http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588
A nice visual reminder of one type of engine that did switching----
A very quick shot of a monument at Palmerston ON--but what the hey---they did the grunt work---
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Don't see how those lengthy treatises about who is a model railroader or not have to do with this thread's topic. Wish those pontificators started their own thread (or sent private messages) so I could avoid the subject easier.
markpierce Don't see how those lengthy treatises about who is a model railroader or not have to do with this thread's topic. Wish those pontificators started their own thread (or sent private messages) so I could avoid the subject easier. Mark
I agree, make you wonder where the moderators are to let this go on. There would be two less pages without the bickering between those two.
markpierceDon't see how those lengthy treatises about who is a model railroader or not have to do with this thread's topic. Wish those pontificators started their own thread (or sent private messages) so I could avoid the subject easier. Mark
Yep. For me it's real simple, if you think you are a model railroader, then you are and welcome to the club.
Enjoy
Paul
We wouldn't want to confuse an "Imitation Model railroader" with a "REAL Model Railroader".
As if any of the Elitest attitudes do anything Favorable, or positive for the Hobby. If one Enjoys the Hobby is all that matters, not whether or they have a 600 square foot fully sceniced museum quality layout, with entirely scratch-built structures and locomotives, or RTR equipment.
Trains are supposed to be FUN .
Sorry, what do I know, my Favorite trains run on 3 rails.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
AggroJones I want PCM to make a Diecast SP AC-12 with a MSRP of $40. Then I could get one.
Aggro:
Ah yes, but we'd have to convince both Bruce's Train Shop and Mike over at Railroad Hobbies to stock about 3,000 of them. EACH! The lines at both shops would continue well around the block. You and me included.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
R. T. POTEET I ask this: Is Joe a "model railroader?"; is that label correct only when he has a soldering iron in hand and, since he has no intention of ever operating that beast on a layout, is it even correct then? is it improper to label "collecting" as "model railroading" separate from layout construction and operation?
I ask this: Is Joe a "model railroader?"; is that label correct only when he has a soldering iron in hand and, since he has no intention of ever operating that beast on a layout, is it even correct then? is it improper to label "collecting" as "model railroading" separate from layout construction and operation?
Of course he is. He just models a railroad museum.
Mark:
Yes, I finally have to jump in here and agree.
HEY YOU GUYS, AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUST PM EACH OTHER AND LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE, OKAY?
Okay, now I feel better.
don7I agree, make you wonder where the moderators are to let this go on. There would be two less pages without the bickering between those two.
Yea, Crandell...where are you? Lets lock this thread before someone gets hurt, like the "Matchbox vs Scale" Thread
twhite markpierce Don't see how those lengthy treatises about who is a model railroader or not have to do with this thread's topic. Wish those pontificators started their own thread (or sent private messages) so I could avoid the subject easier. Mark Mark: Yes, I finally have to jump in here and agree. HEY YOU GUYS, AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUST PM EACH OTHER AND LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE, OKAY? Okay, now I feel better. Tom
In my first post I stated that these "howcum" threads tended to degenerate into wish lists. Somewhere or another this topic got steered in the direction of "Who can we blame for the lack of those products which are not being produced" and the finger-of-justice pointed at evil collectors. I own up that I perpetuated this "wandering". I am done with this topic!
HIP-HIP-HOORAY!
Sigh
Apparently we can't seem to decide on whether to argue modes and types of modelling, who is what type of modeller or the idea that a wish list is what was needed. And there was/were no referees here.
It would be nice if we just started back to the wish list----even for custom builders----
markpiercedti406 That one was one of the first models that Sunset Imported. Amazing that about 500 (SWAG as I don't have my Brown Book handy) models were built of an engine class that consisted of just 3 prototypes. The 2008 Brass Model Trains Price & Data Guide doesn't show how many of the SP D-class Decapods were made in HO although it shows Sunset imported them in 1976. Mark
Well, I am sure glad I did not spend my money on that book, I checked my old Brown Book and they iproted 800 of the D-Class and it was the third model that Sunset Imported.
Rick
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
dti406 Well, I am sure glad I did not spend my money on that book, I checked my old Brown Book and they iproted 800 of the D-Class and it was the third model that Sunset Imported. Rick
I'm glad I didn't buy that book either. It is a friend's book. Used it a lot because I've been on a brass-locomotive-acquisition-from-eBay frenzy for the last couple of years.
I will add fuel to this fire. Officially, the SP name for their 2-10-2 locos was Freight. The 2-10-2 major class abbreviation was "F" standing for Freight, just like "C" meant Consolidation, "Mt" meant Mountain, "Mk meant Mikado, "M" meant Mogul, "TW" meant Ten Wheeler, "B" meant Berkshire, and so on.
I got a late night phone call last night from SP TW-8 #2914 (a 4-8-0, not a 4-6-0) who is sitting on display in the Kern County Museum in Bakersfield. Apparently she thinks you don't love her any more and was sobbing uncontrollably. I don't want to get caught in the middle of a lover's spat, so could do me a favor and give her a call back and say it was all a big mistake and that it was just a typo?
Sheesh. Some locomotives get upset over the silliest things. The only thing that would have made it worse is if you'd called her a "hog".
I'd do it right away if I were you. "Mastadons" are related to elephants and they don't forget a thing.
EDIT: http://espee.railfan.net/sp_steam_tw-08.html
Mike
You're so right, Mike. You "got" me. TW was SP's abbreviation for Twelve wheel (4-8-0), and T was for Ten-wheeler (4-6-0). It's shown right there on page 11 of Diebert/Strapac's book SP Steam Compendium.
My apologies to the elephant, er... Mastadon.
markpierce Your so right, Mike. You "got" me. TW was SP's abbreviation for Twelve wheel (4-8-0), and T was for Ten-wheeler (4-6-0). It's shown right there on page 11 of Diebert/Strapac's book SP Steam Compendium. My apologies to the elephant, er... Mastadon. Mark
Your so right, Mike. You "got" me. TW was SP's abbreviation for Twelve wheel (4-8-0), and T was for Ten-wheeler (4-6-0). It's shown right there on page 11 of Diebert/Strapac's book SP Steam Compendium.
I think we're about even on points. You got me pretty good when I posted 1917 as the year the two MM-3's were manufactured.
Crossing signals with realistic supports for the crossbucks and lenses! They used to make some back in the seventies(gates and all) but they have the "stop on red signal" sign underneath and are white,which is prototypical for the modern era but looks old-fashioned. These signals could be seen in the "landmark layouts" feature of the Utah Belt months ago (in the shot with the f unit) and were obviously painted. Some of this type of signal should make its way to the market both with the SORS signs , cast in silver and cast without crossbucks(the crossbucks on the originals are the right size but a little thick; the Walthers crossbucks are the same size but thinner and could be put on).
okoniteCrossing signals with realistic supports for the crossbucks and lenses! They used to make some back in the seventies(gates and all) but they have the "stop on red signal" sign underneath and are white,which is prototypical for the modern era but looks old-fashioned. These signals could be seen in the "landmark layouts" feature of the Utah Belt months ago (in the shot with the f unit) and were obviously painted. Some of this type of signal should make its way to the market both with the SORS signs , cast in silver and cast without crossbucks(the crossbucks on the originals are the right size but a little thick; the Walthers crossbucks are the same size but thinner and could be put on).
Check this site http://www.njinternational.com/
elauterbach3. DM&IR Yellowstone. Walthers has the ore cars, steel mill buildings, and even a correct caboose they recently announced. Yeah, I know we have a lot of large steam engines, but why not this one instead of another Big Boy or Challenger.
I wouldn't stop there... I have questioned in the past why "any" of the 2-8-8-4s are yet to be modeled in something other than brass. Yes, I'd include the DM&IR locos but don't forget the B&O EM-1s, the Northern Pacific had Z5s I believe and then there's the semi-streamlined Lima built Espee AC-9s with skyline, etc.
Like so many, I'll admit to wandering off of the reservation from time to time for "big steam." But I try to limit these uncontrollable urges to locomotives that "could have been" operating in the vicinity of my loosely based eastern Ohio NKP/W&LE layout. So I don't run Big Boys or Cab Forwards, but an unknown disaster on home rails might force an Allegheny or N&W Y series loco onto my rails from time to time.
The group represented here is probably more serious about their modeling than the guy who has a couple of 4x8 plywood sheets covered with a few loops of track and some buildings. He (or she) isn't confined to specific road needs yet and may well opt for a bigger loco "because it's so massive looking," as opposed to it's being a part of their yet to be determined prototype. So I can understand why we have multiple producers of Big Boys, Challengers, Cab Forwards, etc. But that still doesn't explain to me why the 2-8-8-4 wheel arrangement has been ignored.
dlm