betamax Where else can a group of people spend a lot of time explaining the correct methods and materials to do something, and why you don't do it this way, only to have someone come along and state "I've been doing it that way for years and never have any problems." That's because he hasn't had a problem yet. Trying to stop the spread of incorrect or misleading information is almost impossible thanks to the internet. Some of the concepts and techniques belong in another era, but they live on thanks to the internet and it's self proclaimed experts.
Where else can a group of people spend a lot of time explaining the correct methods and materials to do something, and why you don't do it this way, only to have someone come along and state "I've been doing it that way for years and never have any problems."
That's because he hasn't had a problem yet. Trying to stop the spread of incorrect or misleading information is almost impossible thanks to the internet. Some of the concepts and techniques belong in another era, but they live on thanks to the internet and it's self proclaimed experts.
That may be the case that the guy has not had the run in with something going awry on him/her when using their favorite method but that does not mean that just because it may not work that one time that is totally wrong to use it. This sounds like a case of the idea of there being One Single System for everything---
Look, to me methods are only methods. There is no scientific basis in one way being WRONG and another being RIGHT. I think that the methods may change but all they really become is just different. In other words--there is no hierarchical ranking to that difference. And just b/c someone uses an "out of date"--I did not know there was an expiry date on methods--method, and ohno ohno finds the thing still works for them does not mean that the method is incorrect----or even---"from another era---" I don't always use the most au courant methods just because they are of our present time. I use whatever methods work ---for me.
As for the concepts--again, sorry for our luck, but sometimes those concepts may have worked for that era. There are other ways of conceiving things that work for now----others will come that will work better for those future periods.
AACCH---maybe I'm just too much of a pragmatic-----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
andrechapelon You just don't get it, do you? I was referring to sites where the likes of Joe Fugate, Lance Mindheim, Jim Six, Tony Koester, Andy Sperandeo, Clark Propst, Charlie Comstock, et. al. hang out. I'm also referring to the quarterly e-magazine now available to be downloaded. Peer review does happen. It's real time and interactive instead of the batch mode so beloved of those stuck in the 50's. EDIT: OK, CNJ. You claim to be a published author (something I've never claimed to be). How's about a list of some things you've written that have been published? Then again, how do I know I could trust that list? You could be anybody (although the set of anybodies is probably limited to fans of the Central of New Jersey which does limit the population of anybodies considerably), Andre
You just don't get it, do you? I was referring to sites where the likes of Joe Fugate, Lance Mindheim, Jim Six, Tony Koester, Andy Sperandeo, Clark Propst, Charlie Comstock, et. al. hang out. I'm also referring to the quarterly e-magazine now available to be downloaded.
Peer review does happen. It's real time and interactive instead of the batch mode so beloved of those stuck in the 50's.
EDIT: OK, CNJ. You claim to be a published author (something I've never claimed to be). How's about a list of some things you've written that have been published?
Then again, how do I know I could trust that list? You could be anybody (although the set of anybodies is probably limited to fans of the Central of New Jersey which does limit the population of anybodies considerably),
Andre
Sadly, Andre, it is you that doesn't get it. By you own recent admission, you are simply an armchair hobbyist, not even a active modeler and definitely not a published one. Yet you dispute posts by individuals, certainly beyond just myself, with regard to correctness, accuracy and subject understanding. Then, when your post is shown to be inaccurate, or simply wrong, you repeatedly attempt to wease-word your way out of it, as you attempted to do here. This is precisely what's wrong with so much material on the Internet. While there are indeed some very useful sites run by experienced hobbyists, they likely amount to 1% or less of what is to be found out there in a web search. The great majority of material is less than worthwhile, posted too often by fringe hobbyists and wannabe model railroaders. In your case, you don't model, don't have a clear understanding of the hobby's history, you're not a published author, and lack familiarity with the publishing industry, at least as far as I can see. Just where then is this fount from which springs your ability to speak to this and so many other model railroading subjects?
Andre, you ask for some of my credentials as an author/hobbyist. So, only at your insistence and with reluctance on my part, a portion goes as follows. For twenty years I was a columnist associated with Sky Publishing, publishers of several monthly internationally recognized science magazines. Therein, I had published well over 250 signed articles. I also freelanced several dozen additional pieces for other highly regarded popular magazines. Athough I have little interest in publishing articles in model railroading magazines after a long writing career elsewhere, I have had three articles addressing segments of the hobby's history in RMC in addition to acting as an historical advisor for the book The Blue Comet - The Seashore's Finest Train.
With all due modesty, I think this snippet sufficiently qualifies me to speak with some authority on the subject under discussion.
CNJ831
markpierceThis thread is a battlefield. "Take our trucks...we are out of here!"
Dang, Where's Dave's popcorn when you need it--------
Easy, guys - I am the one who started this thread with just a little innocent question. No reason for any issues that start to become a touch to personal for my taste.
There is room for all kinds of media in our hobby - be it reputed magazines like MR or others, be it the internet. We have many a good contribution from members of this forum in the internet - let me just quote SpaceMouse´s home page with valuable hints for beginners as "pars pro toto".
I use the internet for communication and information, but magazines for imagination and dreaming...
So let´s apply Rule 8 - Have fun!
Folks:
I see the thread has gotten around to the print vs. net thing. I don't feel that the intertubes has to suck the life out of MR, for a few reasons:
a. Humorously, you can't read the Net on the john. More seriously, the Net requires some sort of technological tool to read. A magazine does not. Of course, this may not matter to us here, but then this is an Internet forum, isn't it? Might as well ask 100 vegetarians for cheeseburger advice.
b. We have a direct comparison to the other major hobby magazine, which has actually remained the same size, perhaps grown in content, as MR has shrunk. How? I feel they have adapted better - gone into more depth than they used to, and provided what the Net can not, which leads me to...
c. Frankly, the net vs. print comparison only holds up well if you don't look at the Net. Not to be rude, but I've got more Internet-fu than most of you old-timers , and I read more old magazines than most people here. Why? Because that stuff just isn't on the Internet.
If I go out and surf, and turn up 1000 things, it won't be 1000 different things. It will more likely be ten, repeated 100 times each. The internet is about as useful to an information seeker as a field of taconite is to a blacksmith. A magazine could use it to their benefit - as a source of feedback and ideas (this forum) and as a mine for data and new authors!
Surf da Net. When you come upon a new idea, something really brilliant and unexpected (like that home metalcasting rig somebody posted here) contact the author and get him to write an article! Don't lament the Net, drag it! The result will be a concentrated collection of really superb knowledge, buyable for five bucks, instead of countless fruitless hours of searching.
dknelson For those fellow geezers nostalgic for the more prose-heavy, construction type articles of the past, join the NMRA and sign up for Scale Rails. It is amazingly improved over what the NMRA Bulletin was just a few years ago. I find it to be an excellent compliment to MR. Dave Nelson
For those fellow geezers nostalgic for the more prose-heavy, construction type articles of the past, join the NMRA and sign up for Scale Rails. It is amazingly improved over what the NMRA Bulletin was just a few years ago. I find it to be an excellent compliment to MR.
Dave Nelson
Valid point, Dave. Been a life member since 1974--one hundred smackers in those heady days--and I find the publication interesting and valuable.
Perchance just a few minutes ago I retrieved my July '09 Scale Rails from my mail box. In every issue there is a feature called Timelines featuring a photograph from the Kalmbach Memorial Library; this current issue has a photograph taken in August 1969 showing a Milwaukee Road reefer being iced and salted at some nameless location--how many of you are still icing reefers in August 1969? I figure that I have received about 425 NMRA Bulletins/Scale Rails since I parted with that hundred bucks thirty-five years ago which averages out to about 4.25¢ an issue and that makes this a very cheap photograph indeed! In addition to Timelines most issues feature an article and/or drawing of either a structure or a piece of rolling stock/motive power; this month's feature is the Erie Railroad depot in Industry, New York. The article is by Otto Vondrak and the drawing is done by Harold Russel, MMR.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Internet forums are like a bunch of guys shooting the breeze. Individually, it's hard to tell the good from the not so good, but collectively some pretty good advice is usually to be had. Sure we're sharing experiences as well as what we have heard from others and one or two may not have it right, but when you get 5 or 6 or more saying the same thing the reliability goes up.
And I'm sorry, but getting something printed in a publication does not necessarily make it correct - one of the reasons you had to get mutltiple sources for those term papers back in school. I have found that when I have first hand knowledge, the printed version is seldom completely correct.
While I'm sure that MR works hard to ensure accuracy, a lot of model railroading is really preferences and opinions. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not one size fits all. What works best for some is not the best for others.
There's a lot of good information on the Internet, but you have to evaluate sources and critically examine content. That's more important since a lot ot it is unchecked by others, but it's nothing new or unique to the 'net..
Enjoy
Paul