Hello everybody,
my question is how did you add more weight to your cars. It is easy if it is possible to take the cars appart but my Walthers tank cars and Intermountain grain cars seem very light. The trouble is that the cars are cast in one piece of plastic and there is no way one can take the cars apart. My thought was to drill a hole underneath and get some lead from shotgun shells. Then plug the hole with glue from a heat gun. Bird shot is quite small so the hole to add the weight could be rather small as well. The only issue then is how will the little lead balls react to the train movements.
What is your experience and how did you resolve the issue.
Thank you
Frank
PS: The type of cars in question are the following:http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/45115.htm and also the tank car type http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7262
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
In the other thread on this same issue, I mentioned adding white glue after the lead shot, plug the hole, shake the weight about to settle the balls and set aside to let the glu
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I just let mine stay the way they are dont wont to mess them up.
Russell
I replace the plastic trucks with metal ones from Kadee, and change the Kadee wheelsets to those from Intermountain. This adds just enough weight where it does the most good, and makes the cars very free rolling.
Sheldon
davidmbedard Buffets, fat-rich diets, lots of slurpees, lack of excersize......... David B
Buffets, fat-rich diets, lots of slurpees, lack of excersize.........
David B
....and too many Molson's and donuts, eh?
Bill
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig"
Are you sure your tank cars don't come apart? That is what I thought when I started in on them. So, yes, I drilled a hole in the bottom of the first one (as I had read how to do in this forum) and added BBs with a few shots of white glue and shook them up.
Then I discovered that all of my 5 or 6 makes/models of tank cars come apart rather easily if one removes the perimeter hand rail (wire) trim. Many had such nice looking seams or hidden seams below this detailing, that I assumed they were a glued unit.
I can't tell you right now if any were Walthers brand.... but take a good close look at yours. Your cars probably have a weight plate lying either vertically or horizontally in the tank. When they were made, the shells were snapped together after this weight was added. Some brands have the end pieces of the tank come off instead of a two-piece shell.....I think.
So, anyway, what I did with mine was to add the normal sticky tire rim weights as usual. However these can be too large to slide in with the plate weight, so I also used some flat lead sheet weight (I get from a roofing company) in some.
Generally speaking, tank cars should not be left alone if they seem light or have plastic wheels. I found they are notorious derailers. And adding metal wheels is also a good help as noted above.
For flat cars, I have pushed in some sheet lead pieces cut to size between the underside beams. I glue these in with caulk.
For gondolas under a load/lid, I pour in more of those BBs (because I went and bought a big jar that I thought I would need for the tank cars) on top of some "no more nails" or caulk and push them down in.
Not haphazardly though. Use a postal weight scale to measure what is needed for your car and to cut/measure the correct size weight to add.
Thank you bogp40, I went to the other post and read it as well and you have great suggestions. As mentioned, the other gentleman had posted his thread while I was composing this one. Basically same question asked by two different individuals at the same time.
csxns, good point. It is just that I would like for the cars to be more reliable in the freights climbing the helix.
Sheldon, I also always change the wheels out from plastic to metal. Interesting that you also change the trucks. I did not know that Kadee made metal trucks. Certainly wish that all the manufacturers would include Kadee couplers as well.
Cisco Kid, it was quite a surprise when I found out that the end pieces of the Walthers tank cars come off. I will certainly follow the advice you have given in this post. Some tank cars need another 2 ounces of weight and the wheels changed to steel ones as well. It is rather sad when you consider the amount of money you pay for these items and then still have to upgrade them afterward.
Thank you everybody.
da_kraut Sheldon, I also always change the wheels out from plastic to metal. Interesting that you also change the trucks. I did not know that Kadee made metal trucks. Certainly wish that all the manufacturers would include Kadee couplers as well.
Frank, I don't know how old you are or how long you have been in the hobby, but back in the old days (1950's and into the 60's) many of the trucks on the market where metal and fully sprung and equalized (flexible). Kadee is one of the last remaining ones of this type and are very high quality. BUT, their wheels are cast metal, and on a delrin plastic axle. They look nice but could be more free rolling. The Intermountain wheels are machined and on a brass axle and solve the problem. The combination of the Kadee truck with the Intermountain wheelset gives superior tracking, is very free rolling and ads weight where its needed most - down low. I do ad a very small drop of light oil as I install the new wheelsets as it is a metal to metal contact. The oil soaks into the cast metal of the truck "perminately" lubing it. I have never had any problems from the oil.
This is by no means an inexpensive route as the Kadee trucks are about $6 a pair and the wheelsets about $5 per car. But the results are great - increasing what my locos can pull by as much as 40% in some cases and combined with good trackwork making derailments no existant.
I drill a hole in the bottom or under the roofwalk and use steel BBs (lead birdshot would be better if you can find it). I coat them with matt medium or tacky glue, put them through the hole and shake to get them to the bottom and hopefully distributed end to end.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
you totally unseal them? =P
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
da_kraut Cisco Kid, it was quite a surprise when I found out that the end pieces of the Walthers tank cars come off. I will certainly follow the advice you have given in this post. Some tank cars need another 2 ounces of weight and the wheels changed to steel ones as well. It is rather sad when you consider the amount of money you pay for these items and then still have to upgrade them afterward. Thank you everybody. Frank
No problem.
Gee, that seems like a lot of weight you have to add. I don't have an unweighted tank car on hand, but I don't think I ever added more than an ounce plus some metal wheels to get smoothly operating cars.
My tank cars are 5.5". At the NMRA weight that would be 3.75 oz. I measured one now with metal wheels and I have it at 3.6 oz. I think I added 1 oz. to this car. If I added 2 oz. it would be up to 4.6 oz.
Whatever you prefer is ok, of course. Although getting even two half oz weights in the cars was tricky, at times.....some cars had plastic screw pylons or plastic grids inside to get in my way.
Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)
Alantrainswind thin solder around the axles
If you run metal wheels, you would have to be careful about creating an electrical short between the wheels
That's a good point George,
I was going to try it out today so I'll be careful not to cause any short circuits.
Also remember Lead is toxic, so always wash your hands after using it in any form.
cheers
ATLANTIC CENTRALI replace the plastic trucks with metal ones from Kadee, and change the Kadee wheelsets to those from Intermountain. This adds just enough weight where it does the most good, and makes the cars very free rolling. Sheldon
Seems a shame to pay for new Kadee trucks and then turn right around, toss those brand-new Kadee wheelsets and replace them with IMs. I respect your long experience, but is that really the best freight-car truck replacement path you've found?
- Gerhard
Edit: I saw your follow-up post too late, tried to delete this post but the system would not let me. I guess the lesson is, read the whole thread before foaming off at the mouth...
once when i got really desperate, i wrapped solder around the axles.
grizlump
Gerhard,
That's OK, its a valid question even with my follow-up explaination. So here is a little more info. I was already heavily invested in Kadee trucks for a large freight car fleet (350 cars, about half already with Kadee trucks) when improved rolling qualities became an important factor in being able to pull longer trains with the available steam locos on the market.
So I began testing, and testing, and testing. And I have had several conversations with Sam at Kadee regarding this issue. They know their trucks could be more free rolling and have actually made some small changes and may make more in the future - but, Sam admitted that the trucks sell really well and investing too much in improvements is not a high priority.
My tests included all the major brands of sideframes and wheelsets in every plausable combination. While some rigid trucks did equal my Kadee/Intermountain combo, none consistantly exceeded it. The conversion has provided a 30%-40% increase in pulling capacity of all my motive power.
The Kadee trucks have two minor design issues that are corrected by installing the Intermountain wheelsets. Being sprung, the sideframes have some play, allowing them to tilt outward at the bottom slightly some of the time. This combined with the large axle end cone transfers the contact point on the axle from the pointed end to the top of the cone. This larger contact, even with the Delrin axle, means more friction.
The Intermoutain wheelsets have a reduced diameter axle on the outboard side, this maintains the end point as the contact point even when the sideframes tilt. And, as mentioned before, I do oil these at intallation. The dicast sideframes act just like an oilite bearing holding the oil vertually forever with no mess.
Second thing, the Kadee wheels are cast metal and blackened, making them very realistic and accurate. But their surface is rough and adds to rolling resistance. Some also complain the blackening leaves a residue on the track as it wears off. The Intermoutain wheels are machined nickel, a small compromise in appearance for a big gain in performance.
I stay with this setup because all my past experiance shows sprung trucks to be superior to rigid ones and because of their metal construction and the weight issue as per the original question posted here.
I do see to it that the Kadee wheels get into the hands of those who can use them and they do work very well in Athearn and similar rigid frame trucks.
The Kadee trucks also have several other nice features. They come in a self centering version that aligns the truck straight with the carbody then its lifted off the track, making rerailing easy. Most versions also now have seperate plastic brake shoe assemblies for added detail.
Expensive - YES, BETTER - YES.
Your local hobby shop should carry self-stick HO car weights that you stick under the cars and for the most part are not visable. I use them with great success on both passenger and frieght cars, should they fall off, I use white glue to reapply them.
Ernie
PRR GG1 Your local hobby shop should carry self-stick HO car weights that you stick under the cars and for the most part are not visable. I use them with great success on both passenger and frieght cars, should they fall off, I use white glue to reapply them. Ernie
True. But if you ever need lots of the weights for dozens of cars, go to your autoparts store to buy the same weights. They are a lot cheaper there. At times, my autoparts store does not have any in stock because they are not much in demand by DIYers, but then I check the tire stores which always have them. The last time they just handed me a half dozen sticks of quarter and half oz. weights because they couldn't be bothered to find out how to sell them to me.
The self adhesive on mine will never never let go. I have had great difficulty removing any that have been on for awhile. They have to be cut off at contact margin.
This is the reverse of the current subject, but not too far off topic. How do you get weights out of a sealed car?
I once acquired some 1940 vintage O scale freights cars, one of which was a stock car with cast metal sides. The thing was built solidly, and inside I could see the floor was covered with loose marbles, which was obviously done to add weight, but it looked mighty odd. I didn't want to harm the patina of the car in disassembly, so I drilled a hole in the wood floor between the side sills and the metal fishbelly center sill, and worked the marbles out one at a time. The car still weighs a ton. I then consulted the internet to determine the value of the marbles; they were worth little or nothing.
To get back to the original post, the only thing I can add is that a square chunk of lead glued to the underside of a freight car truck would be my preferred method of weighting it, as solder wound around the axles would be visible from the side. A hole drilled in the center can clear the kingpin head, if necessary. Just be sure the chunk doesn't touch the axles, and doesn't touch the sideframes if they are the pivoting type.
The solder around the axle trick is especially useful for adding weight to thin-floored flat cars, which are notoriously underweight, and have no place (other than a load) to add the usual types of aftermarket weight.
A coat of insulating paint on the wheel backs and axles will keep the solder from causing shorts. A coat of black on the solder, after installation, will help to keep it hard to notice.
A friend of mine once added lead shot to a string of sealed reefers, but didn't add anything to anchor it. After a week or so of running the same way around his tight-radius loop, the cars started to develop a noticeable list, and would roll over when taking his curves at his usual (measured in Mach numbers) speed. Seems that all the shot had migrated to one side of the car floor...
Chuck (Modelng Central Japan in September, 1964 - with a lot of steel cars)